[Pogue Mahone]

We are turning into an actual joke. People in here and in other treads defending Ragnicks “honesty” but don’t see the same thing happened with Martial. Atleast with OGS (who should have been gone a year ago) there was a sense of unity.

Now the football is thrash, the results are crap and to top it off almost weekly we have a new piece of controversy surrounding the team. Players taking digs at teammates, the system or manager. Storming of the pitch and these twitter/instagram post. We are now just turning into Eastenders and our current setup with RR at the help is not helping in the slightest.

Stop being such a drama queen. Results have improved significantly since Ole left and the only drama is coming from players we’ve all wanted rid of for years anyway (one of whom is as good as gone, with the other soon to follow)

Unless you’re talking about Greenwood, in which case trying to hang that on RR is a spectacularly dumb thing to do.

 

[Ixion]

Atleast with OGS (who should have been gone a year ago) there was a sense of unity.

Where did that get us.

There is always going to be some drama sorting the squad out.

 

[Chief123]

We are turning into an actual joke. People in here and in other treads defending Ragnicks “honesty” but don’t see the same thing happened with Martial. Atleast with OGS (who should have been gone a year ago) there was a sense of unity.

Now the football is thrash, the results are crap and to top it off almost weekly we have a new piece of controversy surrounding the team. Players taking digs at teammates, the system or manager. Storming of the pitch and these twitter/instagram post. We are now just turning into Eastenders and our current setup with RR at the help is not helping in the slightest.

Lets be honest, you just made most of that all up. In particular, we can't really say results are trash when he's got a record of something like W5 D2 L1. Significantly better than Ole's last 7 games. Weaker oppenents argument is weak too considering we were shite against the likes of Watford under Ole.

There wasn't as much noise coming out of the club under Ole because he was Mr Nice guy and players love a nice guy because they can basically do what they want. As soon as someone comes in with discipline and a stronger regime, surprise surprise, some players don't like it.

Whoever came in was never going to have a drastic change. It rarely happens. We were and are a complete mess which will take time. At least the results have improved and we still have a fighting chance on all fronts.

 

[red4ever 79]

The sooner we cut ties with players like Lingard the better we will be. Get them out and purge the squad.

 

[stevoc]

Could be, but the evidence (our 30 man squad, not loaning Elanga or Donny) suggests Ole was a massive hoarder. Also the fact that there was no transfer talk around Lingard (from other clubs) as well, suggest he wasn't actually for sale.

Occam's razor.

So a manager barely plays a player for over a year and then loans him out for 6 months to generate interest him. These actions suggest this manager didn't rate this player and/or see him in his plans and wanted to sell him.

VS

David Moyes says a manager who I wanted to buy a player from told me he wasn't for sale.


For me the evidence suggests he wanted rid of Lingard for a long time mate. Elanga was kept because of Rashfords injury and James sale. Donny was kept as an option in midfield as Solskjaer had planned on switching to 433 this season.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Who'd have guessed pissing off on a holiday during a time he so desperately wanted to get away from the club would have back fired

And then you get people on here defending him saying "his agent can take care of all his business whilst he's away." Maybe if he himself had shown a little bit more urgency knowing the window was closing soon, he might have been able to force through a move.

Now he's publicly coming out and undermining the manager. At least he didn't pose in a West Ham shirt this time I suppose. Can't wait for him to feck off.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Poor little lamb.

 

[stevoc]

Or alternative answer is that is happened exactly as the parties involved say it did. Moyes asked, Ole didn't want to sell him, Lingard stayed.

Not sure why it was inappropriate for Moyes to speak to Ole either. Managers have been talking to each other about signing players forever. They all know each other, meet up regular etc.

Surely you mean party as in just Moyes.

It's inappropriate for Moyes to phone up Solskjaer to try to buy a player when as a former Manchester United manager himself. He would have known Solskjaer wouldn't have the authority to ok a deal over the phone the club have people that handle transfer negotiations.

If Solskjaer didn't want to sell Lingard why did he barely play him in 2020? Why did he then proceed loan him out for the first half of 2021?

Would you say they're the actions of a manger who is desperate to keep a player?

 

[Marwood]

Surely you mean party as in just Moyes.

It's inappropriate for Moyes to phone up Solskjaer to try to buy a player when as a former Manchester United manager himself. He would have known Solskjaer wouldn't have the authority to ok a deal over the phone the club have people that handle transfer negotiations.

If Solskjaer didn't want to sell Lingard why did he barely play him in 2020? Why did he then proceed loan him out for the first half of 2021?

Would you say they're the actions of a manger who is desperate to keep a player?

No, Solskjaer said it out loud as well. He wanted to keep Lingard. Moyes said we wanted to keep Lingard. Lingard did end up staying. I think you're overcomplicating this. It's how it looks.

Why did Solskjaer want to keep a player he rarely plays? Because managers like to have massive squads, cover all eventualities. I don't agree with it but there are numerous examples of this with ourselves, other clubs, in the present and in the past.

Why keep Mata, Matic, Beek, Jones, Bailly, Dalot? They rarely play either.

Ole like a lot of managers slipped into that mindset of wanting a huge squad. Lost control of it.

 

[Kostov]

Does anyone really give a feck when is he back? He is useless 95% of the time, we better give Mejbri those minutes.

 

[stevoc]

No, Solskjaer said it out loud as well. He wanted to keep Lingard. Moyes said we wanted to keep Lingard. Lingard did end up staying. I think you're overcomplicating this. It's how it looks.

Did he though?

Even if he did he also said he looked froward to Alexis coming back as he was a big part of his plans. Which is the sort of thing managers say when they're trying to sell a player for as much as possible.

Surely people realize managers spout this type of shit?

Why did Solskjaer want to keep a player he rarely plays? Because managers like to have massive squads, cover all eventualities. I don't agree with it but there are numerous examples of this with ourselves, other clubs, in the present and in the past.

Why keep Mata, Matic, Beek, Jones, Bailly, Dalot? They rarely play either.

Ole like a lot of managers slipped into that mindset of wanting a huge squad. Lost control of it.

Matic and DVB are 2 of only 4/5 midfielders at the club, we didn't sign any midfielders in the summer so thats why he kept them. Plus he had planned on switching to 433 this season.

Bailly is one of 4 centre back options excluding a player who hadn't played in 2 years. So that's why he kept Bailly.

Dalot is only one of 2 options at RB as we didn't sign a new RB in the summer so that's why he kept Dalot.

Jones? Be serious mate, there was no hope of shifting Jones anywhere. So he had no option but to keep him.

So all those guys were 2nd choice in their positions while after Bruno, Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Sancho. Lingard was at best 3rd and maybe even 4th choice in the positions he can play.

Mata? No idea with that one, rumours it was a club decision but who knows.

 

[VanDeBank]

So a manager barely plays a player for over a year and then loans him out for 6 months to generate interest him. These actions suggest this manager didn't rate this player and/or see him in his plans and wanted to sell him.

VS

David Moyes says a manager who I wanted to buy a player from told me he wasn't for sale.


For me the evidence suggests he wanted rid of Lingard for a long time mate. Elanga was kept because of Rashfords injury and James sale. Donny was kept as an option in midfield as Solskjaer had planned on switching to 433 this season.

What's this assumption based on? You don't think it's possible Ole changed his mind after seeing him perform at West Ham? This is the same man that bought VDB (because and I quote "goals") and Sancho then benched them.

Thinking Ole told Moyes he wasn't for sale as some sort of negotiation tactic is super, ultra, duper clueless. You don't sell your house by not putting it on the market because you're scared people will lowball you because you're showing them you don't need it. Ole isn't that stupid and a phone call doesn't set anything in stone in a 3 month long transfer window. There's a massive difference between showing the world you want to get rid and not trying to sell someone.

Elanga wasn't kept because of Rashford's injury. That doesn't make sense, considering he never saw the light of day under Ole past pre season and we were stacked in that position with multiple players above him in the pecking order. Pogba, Sancho (with Greenwood on the right), Martial and even Lingard who got sub appearances while Elanga didn't even make the bench.

Ole doesn't know that much about football but in a general sense he isn't a moron, which is the implication of your interpretation of events.
Oh and btw he also mentioned in a presser he was talking to Lingard's dad (agent?) to try to extend him and this was reported by reliable journos as well. Or was his presser also a shrewd negotiation tactic so people wouldn't lowball us in the January window when he had 6 months left?

 

[Red Shorts]

JLingz seems like he went on the defensive here, where RR's words aren't exactly putting him down.

Then again, not sure I care too much as he's off in the summer, after an overall very underwhelming United career.

 

[SilentWitness]

It's really weird that you now have two players who've spoken out publicly after something RR has said. Granted, it's two players you don't really need or want to have in the starting 11 but it reflects really poorly on the club.

 

[Freak]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I would rather believe Ralf over this childish cnut

 

[VidaRed]

They’re not really conflicting. He’s getting time off for personal reasons. That’s what they both basically said. The only wriggle room is whether Jesse asked for time “to clear his head” or the club advised him to take some time out. And unless the club were somehow reading his mind, that conversation has to have been initiated by Lingard. So his tweet is, at best, disingenuous.

Who in their right mind would believe lingard ?

 

[Josep Dowling]

It's really weird that you now have two players who've spoken out publicly after something RR has said. Granted, it's two players you don't really need or want to have in the starting 11 but it reflects really poorly on the club.

Disagree. Two players trying to save face and should have gone ages ago. His plan all along is to ride out his contract term in an attempt to get a large signing on fee. Both Martial and Jones are doing the same because they won’t get their salaries matched elsewhere. We need to stop paying squad players above market rates.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I would rather believe Ralf over this childish cnut

To be fair, Ralf didn't say Jesse requested a time off.

"Yes, Paul [Pogba] will be part of the group he might even be in the starting XI, Edi Cavani will only return at the weekend, he contacted me at the weekend and asked to have two more days at home, I knew he couldn't be in starting XI with jet lag. Victor Lindelof has been ill the whole week and not training, the same is true with Jesse if we could give him a couple of days off to clear his mind. He will be back in training on Monday and part of the whole squad. Eric Bailly came back yesterday, he has some problems with his ankle and will not be part of the squad. All the other players will be available."

But then again, it makes zero sense why would the club give/advice him time off unless if it's really a family issue.

 

[VidaRed]

We are turning into an actual joke. People in here and in other treads defending Ragnicks “honesty” but don’t see the same thing happened with Martial. Atleast with OGS (who should have been gone a year ago) there was a sense of unity.

Now the football is thrash, the results are crap and to top it off almost weekly we have a new piece of controversy surrounding the team. Players taking digs at teammates, the system or manager. Storming of the pitch and these twitter/instagram post. We are now just turning into Eastenders and our current setup with RR at the help is not helping in the slightest.

The football was trash and the results crap when we were getting pasted all over the pitch by our rivals and fecking watford. Since then the football and results have improved, granted we're not smashing teams but were not getting shred to pieces either. The improvement is visible and there is a system which rangnick is trying to implement.

The snake pit is being cleared out and you should be happy at that, rangnick is cleansing the toxicity by showing the door to some players.

 

[SilentWitness]

Disagree. Two players trying to save face and should have gone ages ago. His plan all along is to ride out his contract term in an attempt to get a large signing on fee. Both Martial and Jones are doing the same because they won’t get their salaries matched elsewhere. We need to stop paying squad players above market rates.

You don't think it reflects badly that you can't keep these things inside the club instead of having very public spats?

 

[FreakyJim]

Probably internal power struggle between management. Feeding both Rangnick and Lingard false info to make them look bad. I bet some people at United really don't want Ralf in any capacity and will try to push him out at the end of the season.

 

[MemeFather]

stunning... while the purge in squad goes on, redcafe needs to purge posters with mentality of mediocrity.
We need to bring that Fergie style mentality back to the team. Rutless, no matter who you are, Keane, Nistelrooy, Beckham. You're gone if you overstep the boundaries.
I dont know how long Rangnick is gonna be here but I can see a pattern of improvement all around. I want him to carry on like atleast untill summer. No more of this "nice, smiling" approach.

 

[Ananke]

You don't think it reflects badly that you can't keep these things inside the club instead of having very public spats?

Maybe but I think it reflects badly on a club if everything is kept hush hush.

There's no consequence for the players in that regard and they get to do whatever they want, keeping their public image shiny and clean. It then all falls on the manager/club "Why aren't you playing this player" blah blah.

 

[iHicksy]

Maybe Jessie was pissed off at not getting a move and he ranted and raved at the club and they told him to take two days to calm down and clear your head then we expect you back to training? There's always ways to spin it.

What I do know is I don't believe the guy who's been leaking stories and his family posting on instagram about him being "allowed out on day release" along with his own IG posting pics of him in a West Ham shirt while taking home 150k a week making out that he puts the club first. He's been on holiday in dubai relaxing, so obviously the news of not getting a transfer has triggered something which made the club feel he shouldn't return to training. I can't imagine they just said "hey jessie just take an extra couple of days off" without any input from him. How often does your work call you up whilst you're on holiday and just tell you to take some more time off?

Sounds like Ralph has the right of it if you actually think logically.

 

[pratyush_utd]

He was already on vacation for last 3 years.

 

[red4ever 79]

the first 45 seconds sums up some of our players. And we know who they are now. Ralf is exposing them.

 

[SonyaCross493]

The bizarre thing is that he would've probably started the match tonight too. And he's passed that chance I don't get it.. you are a professional footballer surely you want to play football?!

 

[Hansi Fick]

the first 45 seconds sums up some of our players. And we know who they are now. Ralf is exposing them.

Who are they then? What are their names?

 

[Buchan]

I generally like Lingard but I like Rangnick’s unmasking of our dire dressing-room divas even more.

More of this, please.

 

[Red Royal]

So now Lingard says he was available and told to stay away... it's another s@#% show
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...man-united-problem-lingard-talksport-22985195

 

[NinjaZombie]

Guy's a disgrace. Just pocket your 100k a week or whatever and shush till the end of the season. Not many would miss him. Not like he was performing at high levels for us.

If he's such a professional, maybe he could stop leaking stories to the media and get his brother to stop posting Akon lyrics on Twitter.

Lingard is proof that an academy player is no guarantee that a player would treat the club and it's fans with respect.

 

[romufc]

It does surprise me to see him saying he is professional and ready to play when every other week him or his brother are twerking for West Ham. Just the other day, I saw a tweet saying a year ago Lingard was allowed on Day release?

I mean where is the respect? Sure you wanted out, instead of working on leaving the club, he was on holiday in Dubai.

 

[clarkydaz]

Atleast with OGS (who should have been gone a year ago) there was a sense of unity.

Unity in the 14 players he would only play under any circumstances, everyone else was miserable

 

[bringbackbebe]

Manager says something and instead of letting the whole long drawn drama die out, he comes in and accuses the manager and the club of lying, that too on social media. Stupid as they get at 100k a week.

 

[Beachryan]

He's never been good enough and the sooner he's someone else's problem the better.

If I were a manager today I'd tell players they can either use social media or play for my club. Whichever they prefer.

 

[Josep Dowling]

You don't think it reflects badly that you can't keep these things inside the club instead of having very public spats?

I agree on that but in those two instances the players have gone public. Particularly Lingard, there was daily updates on his situation which were clearly coming from the player’s end. Is that the club’s fault?

 

[youmeletsfly]

Really don't get why this guy is even a topic.
He had 10 years to cement a spot under 5 managers. It's as obvious as shit on your shoes.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Club: Hey Lingard!! How are you?

Lingard: I am 100% professional. No disappointments. I am ready, raring to go

Club: So you don't want extra few days off

Lingard: Did you say off days? I'll take them. Will be professional after that. Byeee.

 

[LiamB]

What was stopping Jesse from just turning up to training and proving the manager wrong? Show him that he's ready? Nothing.

I'm with the manager on this saga.

 

[SilentWitness]

I agree on that but in those two instances the players have gone public. Particularly Lingard, there was daily updates on his situation which were clearly coming from the player’s end. Is that the club’s fault?

It just seems weird. Under SAF I doubt players would be allowed tweeting stuff like that and if they were it would be deleted pronto and they'd be getting hell for it. It's not their fault per se, but it is something you would expect the club would stamp down on and make sure it doesn't happen.