Yeah only due to Spurs being three games behind us and will be knocked out of europe next month
Just what the hell has happened this season?
- Thread starter charlenefan
- Start date
They gave the food away at full time. But it had been in the hot counters for so long that the pies were rock hard and inedible. Too bloody late by then!
Spine of the team was crushed under expectations bigger than top 4 and now we're back to situation similar from LvG sacking, only this time without any chance of winning FA Cup.
Currently we don't even possess such thing as full time reliable striker, not to mention there's no Solskjaer / Chicharito / Forlan type bench option who could provide this team in difficult situation. Ronaldo's goals carried the team to next CL stage and batteries got depleted rather quick.
'Pass to Bruno and hope for the best' mentality, or 'De Gea will save us' attitude suggesting every game we're in deep shit and looking for a savior against European giants like Watford or Boro (No disrespect to them as they genuinely play to win against United for twice smaller wages).
Quality control became distant concept and signing policy is to get players we were under deep impression five to ten years ago. Toni Kroos will come here in the age of 35 to fix the midfield ? Another bad appointment and I can see it not far from reality.
Have to say this, despite my fav United players being usually the Brittish ones: after Michael Carrick retired as a player, we've witnessed the weakest core of English players United had in decades. If Rashford & Sancho won't hit high note soon and keep it up, we might aswell stay in Europa League with silent hopes of winning it every three years. Maguire while being Europe's strongest on the ground and in the air as he was on international torunament, in the same time has dynamic of Laurent Blanc at the end of his career.
I can write similar type of post about Glazers & Woody but so far we really can't do much against teams we should be blasting 3:0 at half time. We're back at the beginning of the cycle and about get our hopes high once again before another permanent appointment.
Cycle will restart or end and something new will happen. If club is not coherently planning strictly football matters right now, at this very moment then the outcome will be usual in next three years.
Currently we don't even possess such thing as full time reliable striker, not to mention there's no Solskjaer / Chicharito / Forlan type bench option who could provide this team in difficult situation. Ronaldo's goals carried the team to next CL stage and batteries got depleted rather quick.
'Pass to Bruno and hope for the best' mentality, or 'De Gea will save us' attitude suggesting every game we're in deep shit and looking for a savior against European giants like Watford or Boro (No disrespect to them as they genuinely play to win against United for twice smaller wages).
Quality control became distant concept and signing policy is to get players we were under deep impression five to ten years ago. Toni Kroos will come here in the age of 35 to fix the midfield ? Another bad appointment and I can see it not far from reality.
Have to say this, despite my fav United players being usually the Brittish ones: after Michael Carrick retired as a player, we've witnessed the weakest core of English players United had in decades. If Rashford & Sancho won't hit high note soon and keep it up, we might aswell stay in Europa League with silent hopes of winning it every three years. Maguire while being Europe's strongest on the ground and in the air as he was on international torunament, in the same time has dynamic of Laurent Blanc at the end of his career.
I can write similar type of post about Glazers & Woody but so far we really can't do much against teams we should be blasting 3:0 at half time. We're back at the beginning of the cycle and about get our hopes high once again before another permanent appointment.
Cycle will restart or end and something new will happen. If club is not coherently planning strictly football matters right now, at this very moment then the outcome will be usual in next three years.
It's hard to zone in on one thing. I don't think things get this bad after the amount of money we've spent over the years without a whole host of factors contributing to a failed end product.
You can start at the top - the people that appoint the important people, and they are the owners.
The next stage down, the CEO, the executives, those that are tasked with resourcing and implementing a football structure, including the manager. There has been no idea until recently, which places us years behind where a competent club would be.
The managers themselves, clearly none have approached restoring this club. They have not been good enough.
Then what do you get when everything that has come before has failed? Are you going to have a cohesive bunch of excellent players, or an utterly random selection of individuals of varying quality? Well, let's see, what exactly do they look like?
I'd say this season is just all the chickens coming home to roost and we've got to somehow claw it back one step at a time.
You can start at the top - the people that appoint the important people, and they are the owners.
The next stage down, the CEO, the executives, those that are tasked with resourcing and implementing a football structure, including the manager. There has been no idea until recently, which places us years behind where a competent club would be.
The managers themselves, clearly none have approached restoring this club. They have not been good enough.
Then what do you get when everything that has come before has failed? Are you going to have a cohesive bunch of excellent players, or an utterly random selection of individuals of varying quality? Well, let's see, what exactly do they look like?
I'd say this season is just all the chickens coming home to roost and we've got to somehow claw it back one step at a time.
That makes it even worse, what a waste of food.
It is a commercial driven club, not an ambitious club. The owners do not care for the club and would probably love to sell for a massive profit, but nobody is stupid enough to put the billions required in - as such a massive investment is needed to get the squad and stadium to scratch. I have accepted the club is no longer the club I fell in love with.
This post sums up the club in a nutshell. Depressing to read. Fcuk sake. Glazers are the worst thing to ever happen to us.
Fkin cursed. I dont care what anyone says. “When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
I’m no fan of the Glazers - I’d remove them immediately if I could - but they have made decent funds available. The biggest problem is surely obvious: we haven’t had world class managers at the top of their game.
Moyes - job was too big (he excels as an underdog)
LVG - well past his best
Mourinho - ditto
Ole - far too inexperienced
It is imperative that we get the next manager right. I think if we get Poch then the cycle will continue as his teams simply lose too many matches.
Moyes - job was too big (he excels as an underdog)
LVG - well past his best
Mourinho - ditto
Ole - far too inexperienced
It is imperative that we get the next manager right. I think if we get Poch then the cycle will continue as his teams simply lose too many matches.
Not true. Many saw last seasons performances but were hounded by the ‘progress’ crowd whenever questioning it.
People spent years excusing this squad of every failure then suddenly want it to do things because we signed Ronaldo, that was never going to happen. We know who these players are from previous campaigns.
Of course it's the years of mismanagement and lack of direction from senior management.
But the one thing that has really struck me is the academy products. The "cultural rebuild" was built off the premise that you bring in some strong leaders and they would lead an exciting young team with the academy players all being "brought up the right way".
Look at the current squad. Henderson and Lingard have been pointed to as squad trouble makers, Rashford hasn't put 100% effort in a single game for almost 2 years and a young kid like Greenwood (ignoring recent issues) was playing like he couldn't care less when he had the opportunity to be one of the league's best players.
Before the season I thought that he couldn't fail to develop into an elite forward training with Ronaldo and Cavani every day. But then you hear Ronaldo despair that the young players don't want to take any advice. They think they're too good or too important to take advice from one of the best players to ever play the game. Incredible.
The most worrying aspect of all of this is that a rebuild via the academy (which was the best hope) is extremely unlikely because all it's producing is entitled players who are nowhere near as good as they think they are.
But the one thing that has really struck me is the academy products. The "cultural rebuild" was built off the premise that you bring in some strong leaders and they would lead an exciting young team with the academy players all being "brought up the right way".
Look at the current squad. Henderson and Lingard have been pointed to as squad trouble makers, Rashford hasn't put 100% effort in a single game for almost 2 years and a young kid like Greenwood (ignoring recent issues) was playing like he couldn't care less when he had the opportunity to be one of the league's best players.
Before the season I thought that he couldn't fail to develop into an elite forward training with Ronaldo and Cavani every day. But then you hear Ronaldo despair that the young players don't want to take any advice. They think they're too good or too important to take advice from one of the best players to ever play the game. Incredible.
The most worrying aspect of all of this is that a rebuild via the academy (which was the best hope) is extremely unlikely because all it's producing is entitled players who are nowhere near as good as they think they are.
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Bad squad building, like every season, didn't fix the midfield for like the 10th season in a row.
Most seasons though weren’t out of two cups so early, losing 5-0 to Liverpool at home, losing 4-1 to Watford among several embarrassing performances, bringing back Ronaldo with maximum hype turning out to be a damp squib and having one of our main forwards and our long-term plan for striker bringing shame to the club and might never play again.
This is easily one of the worst seasons since Ferguson, only maybe Moyes’s can compare so far.
Exactly this.....Nostalgia FC. The mistake all these people made was that they thought we'd actually be competitive and have a chance of winning the league. They are too close to Utd to see the reality of an average squad, they thought Ronaldo would be the missing piece of the jigsaw when in reality, he's a useful addition to the squad but papers over the cracks. We still neglected the midfield issues and didn't sign anyone who could improve us in this crucial area. Our second place last season gave many a false sense of security, we overachieved in the same season some of our main rivals underachieved. Our squad and manager (Ole) were never going to be close. SAF, Ferdinand, Evra, Ole and others convinced Ronaldo to come and no doubt romanticised what a return would be like, lifting the title again etc but Ronaldo should have known better, he let himself be swayed.
Had he joined City he'd be adding another EPL title this season and possibly next, along with having an excellent chance of a Champions League title also. Imagine his legacy if he helped City to their first CL.Yes, many here would be salty but he'd have greatly enhanced his already astonishing legacy. Everyone involved in his return made a big mistake here and I'm sure he regrets it now, although he probably wouldn't admit it. He's not going to add to his titles with us.
We are cursed by the GODs!
We are sitting in 4th right now and still in the CL.
A Liverpool fan told me a couple of years ago it's Moyes who cursed us and he will not lift it till we let him see out the remaining years on his contract bringing home the title in the fifth year
Made me chuckle at the time, not so much now 
Ronaldo was brought back to do a specific job, score goals, and he is our top scorer this season so far, so whats he doing wrong? He had a bad day v Boro but definitely will score more goals, but he needs the rest of the team to help him by making crosses etc just as happened for the first hour or so v Boro; on another day he would have scored a hat trick.
3 years without proper coaching and easy fitness trainings come due this season.
A cascade of calamitous management mistakes that date back to the appointment of Moyes. There's no need to go through the entire history of how the club has beclowned itself, but if we can point to one example (not the most egregious, but an important one) it's the extension of Ole's contract last May/June. The club could have thanked Ole for a job well done and moved switfly for a proper manager to take us to the next level. But we didn't, and what ensued in the new season was not a surprise, although I was surprised to see us torn apart by a woeful Watford.
We've been poorly managed for almost a decade. Digging our way out of this mess will not be easy.
We've been poorly managed for almost a decade. Digging our way out of this mess will not be easy.
Before the start of the season I thought 4th place at best and no trophies. Pretty much going exactly the way I thought but feels a hell of a lot worse. The club is in the gutter.
Club win nothing but Glazers make more and more money. Says it all.
Should have asked this question on Moyes' 1st season, LVG's 2nd season, Mourinho's 3rd season...
This season exclusively? Failing to sign a midfielder in the summer and dithering on Ole's future after getting hammered by FIVE clear goals at home against our biggest rivals.
The performances caught up with the results. I think us finishing 2nd last season was more about results (including rivals) than our own performances.
Adding Ronaldo on top of a squad that wasn't ready for a pure goalscorer/didn't fit Ronaldo.
Keeping players that didn't have their hearts fully at United and even now they're still here spreading bad aura.
We haven't fixed the midfield. We have never done it properly since Carrick retired.
Ole had to leave after 3 years of rebuilding and a new intertim came in who has different way of seeing/playing football.
Greenwood finally got exposed for being a stupid idiot.
It has been a long time coming. Hopefully because of how bad it is right now it will finally make people realize that we are not this special entity in the world of football. If you wan't to build, build with people that know his stuffs and not living their past achievements/players as United legends. We have to do it the same way as another club that struggled in the past and are now reaping the rewards. United should wake up and stop living in it's own bubble.
Hopefully when the new manager comes in, if he's not good enough, doesn't matter how long he's been at United, he needs to get the sack. Let's not waste anymore time. Let's not think like a caveman that blind faith and loyalty will get us somewhere. Results, performances, end of story. No result and/or not good enough performances, replace. Same thing for both players and managers. I would even take a massive risk playing academy players or instead sign young talented players from abroad to play in the first team than placing my trust in a big headed star that contributed little in United shirt anyway.
Adding Ronaldo on top of a squad that wasn't ready for a pure goalscorer/didn't fit Ronaldo.
Keeping players that didn't have their hearts fully at United and even now they're still here spreading bad aura.
We haven't fixed the midfield. We have never done it properly since Carrick retired.
Ole had to leave after 3 years of rebuilding and a new intertim came in who has different way of seeing/playing football.
Greenwood finally got exposed for being a stupid idiot.
It has been a long time coming. Hopefully because of how bad it is right now it will finally make people realize that we are not this special entity in the world of football. If you wan't to build, build with people that know his stuffs and not living their past achievements/players as United legends. We have to do it the same way as another club that struggled in the past and are now reaping the rewards. United should wake up and stop living in it's own bubble.
Hopefully when the new manager comes in, if he's not good enough, doesn't matter how long he's been at United, he needs to get the sack. Let's not waste anymore time. Let's not think like a caveman that blind faith and loyalty will get us somewhere. Results, performances, end of story. No result and/or not good enough performances, replace. Same thing for both players and managers. I would even take a massive risk playing academy players or instead sign young talented players from abroad to play in the first team than placing my trust in a big headed star that contributed little in United shirt anyway.
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The team is mentally fragile, just like our fans
I am not too fond of writing observational posts, but as a general football observer and an English football enthusiast I think I would share my thought. Not claiming it is original though
As much as Manchester United supporters hate Liverpool, and vice versa, I think these two football clubs are more similar than their supporters would like to admit. They closely resemble in terms of the City, support, success, failure and tragedies. I remember seeing a fantastic video on the rivalry of these two great clubs two or three years ago. It was very apparent to me that how these two cities and their most successful football clubs tend to follow each other cyclically.
What Manchester United is going through is identical in many ways to how Liverpool was drifting away for 25 years. Of course your owners are the biggest reason for this mess, and their ineptitude was hidden by the greatest club football manager for some years, but I think SAF and his legacy is creating an hindrance for the club's path forward. Although RedCafe is not the ultimate indicator of Manchester United's local and match going supporter base, it is still an indicator nonetheless. I have been following RedCafe since 2018, and every-time something goes wrong on the football side, I see a thread about how Sir Alex would have done it or how his football identity needs to be brought back and how Ole will reinstate SAF's method.
Unfortunately, this is the same nostalgia Liverpool supporters showed in the early 2010s, reminiscing how great Liverpool was under Paisley or Dalglish. There was a huge support and uproar of delusion from Liverpool fans when Dalglish was reappointed, when every unbiased football fan could see that he was out of touch with modern football for a long time. Only since Klopp, the club's general support has realized that though history, especially the history of success is important, but there is a time to let it go and not affect your current progress. I think the same needs to be realized by United fans. Let your new manager and players write their own history instead of burdening them with the earlier one. Even with your current sticky situation, I am confident that with two or three correct appointments Manchester United will bounce back to the top (Probably not as dominating as earlier due to the Nouveau Riche clubs) due to its resources.
My other observation is regarding the effectiveness of your supporters groups. Here, I am afraid, you are lagging behind Liverpool supporters groups. I remember that Spirit of Shankly's constant effort played an important part in removing Hicks and Gillett from Liverpool's ownership. FSG has saved Liverpool in a way, but they are greedy cnuts and not ideal owners. With the ticket price raise, the furlough debacle during covid, the super league mess, etc., they have done a lot of things wrong. But every time they backtracked due to staunch opposition from the supporter's group. Granted your supporters group have vehemently protested the super league idea, but the only other time you have rebelled against Glazers was during last year's game postponement , which did not give a good impression to the neutrals and in hindsight, halted your team's momentum. I think in this area United supporters need to look hard at themselves.
Anyway, I am probably dithering, and also feel like this is probably not the right thread to post my feelings. Please accept my apology. As a football fan, I would love to see United back competing at the very top. All the best
As much as Manchester United supporters hate Liverpool, and vice versa, I think these two football clubs are more similar than their supporters would like to admit. They closely resemble in terms of the City, support, success, failure and tragedies. I remember seeing a fantastic video on the rivalry of these two great clubs two or three years ago. It was very apparent to me that how these two cities and their most successful football clubs tend to follow each other cyclically.
What Manchester United is going through is identical in many ways to how Liverpool was drifting away for 25 years. Of course your owners are the biggest reason for this mess, and their ineptitude was hidden by the greatest club football manager for some years, but I think SAF and his legacy is creating an hindrance for the club's path forward. Although RedCafe is not the ultimate indicator of Manchester United's local and match going supporter base, it is still an indicator nonetheless. I have been following RedCafe since 2018, and every-time something goes wrong on the football side, I see a thread about how Sir Alex would have done it or how his football identity needs to be brought back and how Ole will reinstate SAF's method.
Unfortunately, this is the same nostalgia Liverpool supporters showed in the early 2010s, reminiscing how great Liverpool was under Paisley or Dalglish. There was a huge support and uproar of delusion from Liverpool fans when Dalglish was reappointed, when every unbiased football fan could see that he was out of touch with modern football for a long time. Only since Klopp, the club's general support has realized that though history, especially the history of success is important, but there is a time to let it go and not affect your current progress. I think the same needs to be realized by United fans. Let your new manager and players write their own history instead of burdening them with the earlier one. Even with your current sticky situation, I am confident that with two or three correct appointments Manchester United will bounce back to the top (Probably not as dominating as earlier due to the Nouveau Riche clubs) due to its resources.
My other observation is regarding the effectiveness of your supporters groups. Here, I am afraid, you are lagging behind Liverpool supporters groups. I remember that Spirit of Shankly's constant effort played an important part in removing Hicks and Gillett from Liverpool's ownership. FSG has saved Liverpool in a way, but they are greedy cnuts and not ideal owners. With the ticket price raise, the furlough debacle during covid, the super league mess, etc., they have done a lot of things wrong. But every time they backtracked due to staunch opposition from the supporter's group. Granted your supporters group have vehemently protested the super league idea, but the only other time you have rebelled against Glazers was during last year's game postponement , which did not give a good impression to the neutrals and in hindsight, halted your team's momentum. I think in this area United supporters need to look hard at themselves.
Anyway, I am probably dithering, and also feel like this is probably not the right thread to post my feelings. Please accept my apology. As a football fan, I would love to see United back competing at the very top. All the best
Only if you believe the shit the media says. I've been constantly saying that we lucked out with injuries to City and Liverpool while we've been pretty much having our starting 11 fit for the past few seasons.
Meanwhile our leaky defense and porous midfield gets ignored by the media because apparently we've one of the better defense records in the league despite us playing very negatively. Now that Ole is gone, the media is back to piling it in on the club despite most of the problems already existing even during Jose time.
What has happened, you ask?
“What price a midfielder?” is my reply.
Been saying it for almost 10 years - no one is in the engine room
“What price a midfielder?” is my reply.
Been saying it for almost 10 years - no one is in the engine room
When Solskjaer arrived it was a reboot, a change in direction, a change in recruitment policy. Things were going in the right direction. You could clearly see improvement year on year.
We needed a talented hungry striker to set the league alight this year. Instead we ended up with Ronaldo and Cavani. As much as I supported these moves at the time, in hindsight they are clearly not what we needed and ultimately it looks like they broke a positive period of transition.
We needed a talented hungry striker to set the league alight this year. Instead we ended up with Ronaldo and Cavani. As much as I supported these moves at the time, in hindsight they are clearly not what we needed and ultimately it looks like they broke a positive period of transition.
Challenging for the title was an unrealistic ambition. Considering how brilliant Man City and Liverpool have been over the last couple of seasons, there literally was nothing to suggest they would have any kind of drop off from that. It was just wishful thinking. For us to suddenly start playing at that level when we had no signs of it last season was bordering on hoping for a miracle. Big signings don’t just solve all the problems.
To better understand this season one must understand what happened throughout Ole's reign. Ole came a time when the team was suffering a proper dressing room meltdown. Mou was unhappy here having not been properly backed, he took his frustration over his players often by humiliating them in public and they turned against him. After he was sacked, Ole's friendly approach coupled by the player's determination to proof Mou wrong and a change in tactics (from defensive to attacking football) lead to a string of great results. Ole was given the permanent job on board of those results.
However soon enough teams started to adapt to that system and Ole + his coaches soon noticed that the team was more suited to a defensive/counter attacking football. That suited our lack of tactics as a glove as well as its easy to defend in numbers and then rely on individual brilliance then to micromanage a team to success. Anyway our transfer strategy reflected this counter attacking style of football (Maguire, AWB and James). The results were meah after that but we were lucky with signing Bruno in January who literally dragged us throughout the season.
Our second season was more of the same. Bruno gave us a push towards the first part of the season with goals against Brighton, Newcastle, PSG and Leicester and while we were still knocked out of the CL at the group stages a run in the Europa league meant that Ole still had support of a big chunk of the fans. However towards May the warning signs were already there. Ole was running the squad to the ground, we lost to Leicester and Liverpool, we drew against Fulham and lost the EL final against a much weaker side. It was evident that we needed to change our system.
Ole's strategy was
a- switch to a more attacking football. Thus taking the opponent by surprise as he did when he first arrived
b- add more attacking options thus increasing the chances of individual brilliance
c- add Ramsay to his coaching staff thus sorting the glaring set piece issue we had.
The problem with that was that
a- our defence wasn't suited for a high line. The moment we played that we literally threw Maguire and AWB in the bin. That was a problem since Ole spent 130m on those two
b- more attacking options meant far more competition upfront. Soon enough players were fighting for their chance with some never given a sniff of first team football. That lead to cliques fighting with one another. We've seen times when the British contingent refused to pass the ball to Ronaldo and when Bruno and Ronaldo chastised a misplaced pass as if the guilty party had just scored 3 own goals.
Thus this lead to this train wreck.
However soon enough teams started to adapt to that system and Ole + his coaches soon noticed that the team was more suited to a defensive/counter attacking football. That suited our lack of tactics as a glove as well as its easy to defend in numbers and then rely on individual brilliance then to micromanage a team to success. Anyway our transfer strategy reflected this counter attacking style of football (Maguire, AWB and James). The results were meah after that but we were lucky with signing Bruno in January who literally dragged us throughout the season.
Our second season was more of the same. Bruno gave us a push towards the first part of the season with goals against Brighton, Newcastle, PSG and Leicester and while we were still knocked out of the CL at the group stages a run in the Europa league meant that Ole still had support of a big chunk of the fans. However towards May the warning signs were already there. Ole was running the squad to the ground, we lost to Leicester and Liverpool, we drew against Fulham and lost the EL final against a much weaker side. It was evident that we needed to change our system.
Ole's strategy was
a- switch to a more attacking football. Thus taking the opponent by surprise as he did when he first arrived
b- add more attacking options thus increasing the chances of individual brilliance
c- add Ramsay to his coaching staff thus sorting the glaring set piece issue we had.
The problem with that was that
a- our defence wasn't suited for a high line. The moment we played that we literally threw Maguire and AWB in the bin. That was a problem since Ole spent 130m on those two
b- more attacking options meant far more competition upfront. Soon enough players were fighting for their chance with some never given a sniff of first team football. That lead to cliques fighting with one another. We've seen times when the British contingent refused to pass the ball to Ronaldo and when Bruno and Ronaldo chastised a misplaced pass as if the guilty party had just scored 3 own goals.
Thus this lead to this train wreck.
It's a combination of things i think. Some distractions, plus some of the younger players attitude, and also players who are running down their contracts. There's no 'togetherness' either. Fergies teams had it, and could get away with a mediocre team selection here and there, that fire carried them through.
How could Ronaldo ever be a problem when the entire team is steeped in mediocrity? With or without him, this club has a toxic management structure playing host to a culture devoid of positivity and determination. We have zero drive.
A proper reset needs to be initiated with new owners. Until then, we would have much the same.
A proper reset needs to be initiated with new owners. Until then, we would have much the same.
It is another shitty decision, one of so many. Ole being in charge for so long being worse though. We stay shit unless we make competent, strategic decisions
Reality is what has happened.
Realistically, we are lacking the necessary quality, especially in midfield creativity.
Too many deficiencies. But it is the culmination of years of terrible coaching and general poor discipline and low expectations.
To win at this level, you have to have a winning mentality right through the club.
Realistically, we are lacking the necessary quality, especially in midfield creativity.
Too many deficiencies. But it is the culmination of years of terrible coaching and general poor discipline and low expectations.
To win at this level, you have to have a winning mentality right through the club.
Not everyone thought we would be challenging for the title this season... We were never a good team with Ole, finished seasons with crap amount of points, were constantly being outplayed and finished in decent positions not because we were good or anything but because a few teams had unusually bad seasons for them. Nothing unexpected happened really. We are fighting for TOP 4 and are nowhere near title challenge as expected by some of us.
Sancho. By far our most expensive signing this season, and by far our most unproductive player too.
Exactly. We needed someone to partner Carrick in midfield, he's long retired and we still haven't got his partner, let alone his replacement.