Sorry buddy, my eyes glaze over when you start spouting stats.
If you think Guardiola style is the same as or similar to or looks like coming from the same philosophy as say Valverde's pragmatic style, there is not much to discuss..
If you think that two seasons out of seventeen plus invalidates my point then there is not much to discuss.
Messi was poor in both legs against Chelsea, he played very bad in both games, then Iniesta showed up and qualified Barcelona for the Final, and without Iniesta's goal Barcelona wouldn't have won the UCL in 2009. Factos.Great logic that, must admit I admire lenght you're willing to go to discredit Messi involvement
And you have to remember that Ronaldo is not only the top scorer of all time in the history of football with more than 800 goals. He's also the player who gave more assists in the history of the Champions League
I can remember 5 finals were Messi played bad with Argentina. He won only one of those finals and he didn't show up even though Argentina won, it was Di Maria who showed up, if you watched the game you know Messi's performance was terrible just like in the other 4 finals he played with Argentina.
Ronaldo was the top scorer of Serie A last year, and he was also the top scorer of the Eurocup. He also won the The best fifa award last year because he became the top International goalscorer of all time.
And without that assist from Messi, however simple that pass was, Iniesta wouldn't have scored crucial goal and no final for Barcelona. Factos
It's funny that they blame Dembele for getting knocked out of the CL against Liverpool, however they don't blame Messi for not showing up against Roma in the previous year, and I'm not talking only about the second leg were Roma beat them 3-0. I'm talking about the first leg too, Barcelona won 4-1 and although Barcelona won Messi didn't show up, it was Suarez and Pique who scored the goals while Messi was nowhere to be seen.
Messi didn't show up against Chelsea, he played terrible, it was Iniesta who showed up and qualified Barcelona for the Final. Iniesta saved Barcelona, not Messi. FactosAnd without that assist from Messi, however simple that pass was, Iniesta wouldn't have scored crucial goal and no final for Barcelona. Factos
The famous name “UEFA Cristiano League” is certainly no exaggeration. He truly owns the competition.
Ballon D’or and Golden Shoe are the most important individual awards. Not only Ronaldo is significantly behind Messi in both awards, he also could win a single top league scorer award once in 7 years, embarrassing. So what if he won Serie A top scorer award at Juve once, Messi did it 5 times in superior La Liga only between 2016-2021. The funny thing is Messi is not even a striker unlike Ronaldo, and yet he is the record holder in various goal scoring award categories.
You have some reading issues. My response was to someone talking about Ronaldo’s league achievements, next time, read more carefully.
You obviously do not understand how football works confusing it with singles tennis. Imagine thinking Ronaldo won CL all alone as if this is singles tennis and that super team Real & Zidane/Ancelotti were all irrelevant.
I would like to nominate this as the quote of the year.. This sport is obviously the same as singles tennis, I am convinced.
You’re new, here. That’s exactly what Ronaldo fans say Messi wins because of Xavi, Iniesta Barca philosophy BS whereas Ronaldo wins things by himself with his super mental powers. SAF, United/Real dream teams are all irrelevant. And when he loses, it is the team not Ronaldo. Ronaldo fans love convincing themselves football is not a team sport when Ronaldo wins and is a team sport when he loses.
And 3 times in 5 years, much more competitive than Serie A where Juve won 8 times in a row prior to Ronaldo’s arrival. Using your logic, Ronaldo winning Serie A is not a big deal as well.
They could not win Ligue 1 last year and are now on their way to the title with a huge lead with Messi Ligue 1 assist leader despite playing 8 games less than the next competitor in his below-average season.
You should go & read some history.
God you're a pain in the ass. You and a countless Juve clowns on here. You're nothing but fecking haters. To think you guys expected to win the CL because you had Cristiano. While playing Cuadrado at left back, Danilo at RB, and that clown in the poles, who cant save shet to save his life. Not mentioning the worst midfield Cristiano has ever played with.
. Atleast United fans are freaking realistic. Wish Cristiano could score another bicycle against you clowns just for banter.True. Although these Messi fanboys have turned into rabid animals ever since their idol turned to shit and is flopping in the French league. It’s hilarious the lengths they go to to defend him, the last few pages especially have made for some great reading.The effort to defend Messi here is a bit embarrassing.
This thread from both sides, most pointless debate ever
Meanwhile Ronaldo at UnitedTrue. Although these Messi fanboys have turned into rabid animals ever since their idol turned to shit and is flopping in the French league. It’s hilarious the lengths they go to to defend him, the last few pages especially have made for some great reading.
True. Although these Messi fanboys have turned into rabid animals ever since their idol turned to shit and is flopping in the French league. It’s hilarious the lengths they go to to defend him, the last few pages especially have made for some great reading.
With a great help from best player ever, Lionel MessiIt's funny that they blame Dembele for getting knocked out of the CL against Liverpool, however they don't blame Messi for not showing up against Roma in the previous year, and I'm not talking only about the second leg were Roma beat them 3-0. I'm talking about the first leg too, Barcelona won 4-1 and although Barcelona won Messi didn't show up, it was Suarez and Pique who scored the goals while Messi was nowhere to be seen.
And when they lost 2-8 against Bayern, Suarez and Jordi Alba showed up even though the team lost, but Messi didn't show up at all once again.
Messi didn't show up against Chelsea, he played terrible, it was Iniesta who showed up and qualified Barcelona for the Final. Iniesta saved Barcelona, not Messi. Factos
The years that Ronaldo and Messi were both in Spain competing head to head, Ronaldo won 4 Champions Leagues and Messi 2. In those 9 years Ronaldo was the top scorer of the CL six times, Messi was the top scorer only three times.
whatever makes you sleep well at night in your fantasy land where Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, Pichichis, international tournament MVP awards, La Liga MVP awards, world's best playmaker awards, playmaking/dribbling skills, creativity do not matter and the only ultimate success metric is "total number of goals" playing 200 more games than Messi..
Haha
what kind of records are these? total number of goals? That would basically eliminate any player other than a striker bar Messi for GOAT consideration in that category, too limited.
I’m sure Xavi would swap his trophy cabinet for these tinpot popularity awards. Pirlo too
Yeah, Europa League level Barca which was behind 18 points behind Real until Xavi arrived. They were mid-table before Xavi arrived. Have such things happened with Messi? Nope.
. Definitely looking better than that CL QF/SF playing La Liga title winning Barca in 2019 and 2020.Ronaldo disagrees unfortunately, sad factos.. huge mental gymnastics there disregarding the value of these awardsI’m sure Xavi would swap his trophy cabinet for these tinpot popularity awards. Pirlo too
At the end of the day, they mean feck all, unless we’re gonna try pretending Michael Owen was somehow a better player than Pirlo. Or that Sammer was better than Iniesta.
Above all else, players dream about winning the Champions League and the World Cup, full stop, not a one would swap that with an award Rivaldo was given for a year where his team was knocked out in the group stages of the Champions League. Would Keane swap his 1999 treble for Rivaldo’s 99 award ?
But, Ronaldo's breaking Ali Daei's record or Bican''s record matters a lot playing many more games Its true Messi has his fair share of most discussed major records too:
Disagree, Red, do you really believe people care about Ali Daei's or Bican's record for years, talking about how impressive Daei or Bican has been in their careers, greatness? Sorry, this is BS. I have never heard people talking about these things and these guys. They only became relevant after Ronaldo entered the conversation. I have not seen threads about how Ronaldo has most goals in Euros playing 15-20 games more than Platini. sorry to burst your bubble, but nobody really cares other than "some" Ronaldo fans when the guy is breaking all these record playing many more games than the next guy continously statpadding against European minnows while struggling against the top sides with the NT. What people discuss is how amazing Van Basten was in 1988, Platini in 1984 and scored 9 goals in 5 games winning EC, not how Ronaldo scored 10-11 playing 15-20 games more with multiple penalties. It just fits your narrative to place these things as equivalent to the top individual awards in football world.
The international one has large media coverage and has been commonly discussed all over the world when Ronaldo broke it. Sure main reason people don't care about Ali Daei record is because its from Asian continents and mostly against very very weak opponents, hence given the context its insignificance. But in the past when people discussed who has most international goals, Ali Daei still get the recognition. Same for Bican record as he score majority of his goals during world war period, and those goals scored in reserve/low level football are also included. If we only count goals in top level, Pele has used to have the record of most career goal recognised by IFFHS.
Or Xavi is actually doing a good job and good managers do actually make a difference despite the fact that people say Barca barely needs a manager or good ones. They were completely wank untill he got the team going. If everything was just fine they would have kept Koeman. Considering Messi's age though, he'd had to leave or retire sometime though.
That’s the entire fecking point
He’s a vain feck who wants to sweep up every record and award he can, does he really value them over his 5 Champions Leagues? Does he feck.
Don't forget to quote Ronaldo on CL wins, Ronaldo on Euro wins, and Ronaldo on career goal record, international goal record, CL goal recored etcRonaldo disagrees unfortunately, sad factos.. huge mental gymnastics there disregarding the value of these awards
Ronaldo on Ballon D’or.. "Messi's in the history of football - but I think I have to have six or seven or eight to be above him," said Ronaldo on ITV's Cristiano Ronaldo Meets Piers Morgan. "I'd love it, I think I deserve it."
www.bbc.com/sport/football/49736296
Ronaldo on Golden Shoe " "I really love this award. It is the best award out there for me. Others can pick you as the best player, but an attacker's job is to make goals and I love that. I cannot deny that I love scoring goals."
https://www.goal.com/en/news/722/la...onaldo-golden-shoe-better-than-the-ballon-dor
But it is a fact that Barcelona werent getting anywhere last season until Messi found his form. I'd agree though that keeping an old Messi on massive wages wouldn't be a good strategy.That’s the entire fecking point
They didn’t need Messi to finish 3rd in La Liga, they needed a new manager and to replace the albatross with some much needed shrewd signings once that money was freed up, Messi has been easily replaced to leave a much more balanced team.
While I agree, it is suspicous that Xavi only joined after Messi left. It might also have had to do with Bartomeu but there were rumors that Xavi didn't want to coach Messi. Maybe that is because he didn't want to coach a friend (but he is still coaching Busquets, Pique and Dani Alves) or that he wanted a fresh start but it surely sheds a less favorable light on Messi. Maybe Xavi thought he became bigger than the system or that his freedoms would be hard to implement in his style of play or something like that. Could mean everything, could mean nothing.
It's still pretty clear Messi would look much better than he did last season for such a cohesive team as well. Which is kind of what people were arguing for a while: That Barca appointed lots of terrible coaches during his prime. So IMO, this doesn't take anything away from his performances last season.That’s the entire fecking point
They didn’t need Messi to finish 3rd in La Liga, they needed a new manager and to replace the albatross with some much needed shrewd signings once that money was freed up, Messi has been easily replaced to leave a much more balanced team.
I don't know, an old Messi who's bigger than the club maybe isnt that attractive. I have no idea if Xavi wanted to coach Messi or not.
