Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,028
Location
Moscow
News from the denazification front..

I think in one of Elena Kostyuchenko’s texts there was a scene from Belarus with a Russian soldier coming to a pawnshop with a bunch of golden teeth, chainlets etc. (which ended up into him beating the shit out of the owner and, eventually, getting rescued from the police by his superiors). Not sure if her texts were translated to English yet, she’s a correspondent from Novaya Gazeta that spent the past month in Ukraine, visiting Mariupol, Kherson, Odessa among other cities. Horrendous stuff. Novaya Gazeta was eventually shut down because of her texts even though they’ve lasted longer than literally any other independent Russian media that haven’t relocated abroad.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,220
Location
Hollywood CA
I think in one of Elena Kostyuchenko’s texts there was a scene from Belarus with a Russian soldier coming to a pawnshop with a bunch of golden teeth, chainlets etc. (which ended up into him beating the shit out of the owner and, eventually, getting rescued from the police by his superiors). Not sure if her texts were translated to English yet, she’s a correspondent from Novaya Gazeta that spent the past month in Ukraine, visiting Mariupol, Kherson, Odessa among other cities. Horrendous stuff. Novaya Gazeta was eventually shut down because of her texts even though they’ve lasted longer than literally any other independent Russian media that haven’t relocated abroad.
Golden teeth? FFS
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,028
Location
Moscow
About 75% of its active force.
That's insanely high for a country of their size.
I’m not sure about that number although it depends on the definition of active force. Russian army has around 1,8 million personnel, around 1 million of them are military — the rest are administrative etc. Around 260 thousands out of that 1 million are conscripts (2 call ups by roughly 130 thousands). Which leaves around 740k? There are certainly less than 75% of that in Ukraine. Although I’m not a military expert at all, but I believe that the 75% number was based on the original estimate of the potential forces that could’ve been used in the conflict.

You have to also include Rosgvardia (National Guard) — a militarized police force that is also used in Ukraine even though they’re not part of the army (army answers to Ministry of Defense, Rosgvardia answers to Ministry of Internal Affairs). I’m not sure if their numbers in Ukraine were published but overall there’s around 340 thousands of them.

Anyway, it does look like Russia doesn’t have a lot of reserves that they can realistically add to their offensive.
 

Carolina Red

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
36,422
Location
South Carolina
What proportion of the Russian army is meant to be in Ukraine now?
I’m not sure about that number although it depends on the definition of active force. Russian army has around 1,8 million personnel, around 1 million of them are military — the rest are administrative etc. Around 260 thousands out of that 1 million are conscripts (2 call ups by roughly 130 thousands). Which leaves around 740k? There are certainly less than 75% of that in Ukraine. Although I’m not a military expert at all, but I believe that the 75% number was based on the original estimate of the potential forces that could’ve been used in the conflict.

You have to also include Rosgvardia (National Guard) — a militarized police force that is also used in Ukraine even though they’re not part of the army (army answers to Ministry of Defense, Rosgvardia answers to Ministry of Internal Affairs). I’m not sure if their numbers in Ukraine were published but overall there’s around 340 thousands of them.

Anyway, it does look like Russia doesn’t have a lot of reserves that they can realistically add to their offensive.
If you look at it based on the Russian Army’s order of battle, elements (in part or in whole) of the following field armies have been committed to Ukraine…

1st Guards Tank Army
2nd Guards Combined Arms Army
5th Combined Arms Army
6th Combined Arms Army
8th Guards Combined Arms Army
20th Guards Combined Arms Army
29th Combined Arms Army
35th Combined Arms Army
36th Combined Arms Army
41st Combined Arms Army
49th Combined Arms Army
58th Combined Arms Army
11th Army Corps
14th Army Corps

This means the Russian Army has pulled combat units from 14 of their 16 total field armies for the invasion.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
8,120
It's the International Criminal Court that would investigate them I think.

Look, as I and others have said, YES, the war crimes committed by the Russian leadership is atrocious, the blanket bombing of civilians is disgusting, but the torture of PoWs is a war crime, no matter who committed them, and ALL war crimes should be punished.
If people want Ukraine to be held by those standards and be judged for their share of war crimes, then why now of all places? Why did no one even bother going after the Viet-Cong, the Mujahideen and the Taliban? They won their wars for their own existence and yet probably did their share of war crimes, but no one went after them publicly.
 

MTF

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
5,243
Location
New York City
If you look at it based on the Russian Army’s order of battle, elements (in part or in whole) of the following field armies have been committed to Ukraine…

1st Guards Tank Army
2nd Guards Combined Arms Army
5th Combined Arms Army
6th Combined Arms Army
8th Guards Combined Arms Army
20th Guards Combined Arms Army
29th Combined Arms Army
35th Combined Arms Army
36th Combined Arms Army
41st Combined Arms Army
49th Combined Arms Army
58th Combined Arms Army
11th Army Corps
14th Army Corps

This means the Russian Army has pulled combat units from 14 of their 16 total field armies for the invasion.
I'm speaking out my ass a bit here, but given that they pulled units from as far as the Far East district, I think they probably committed well over 75% of what they have available of professional units for offensive action. Meaning that if Putin asked his military to launch an offensive campaign anywhere else right now they'd probably just have to laugh at him.

Modern militaries just aren't that big, not when compared to the giant WW2 armies that were a result of commiting over 50% of GDP towards the war on the part of most belligerents. Even the US Army only has 11 divisions today compared to the 91 that were raised during WW2.
 

Krakenzero

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
710
Supports
Santiago Wanderers
I really hope they have correctly followed the Geneva Convention protocols in poisoning occupiers.

Are there any new noticeable movements in the last days? Is Mariupol still resisting? Is the UA pushing through the east yet?
 

the hea

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
6,336
Location
North of the wall
I’m not sure about that number although it depends on the definition of active force. Russian army has around 1,8 million personnel, around 1 million of them are military — the rest are administrative etc. Around 260 thousands out of that 1 million are conscripts (2 call ups by roughly 130 thousands). Which leaves around 740k? There are certainly less than 75% of that in Ukraine. Although I’m not a military expert at all, but I believe that the 75% number was based on the original estimate of the potential forces that could’ve been used in the conflict.

You have to also include Rosgvardia (National Guard) — a militarized police force that is also used in Ukraine even though they’re not part of the army (army answers to Ministry of Defense, Rosgvardia answers to Ministry of Internal Affairs). I’m not sure if their numbers in Ukraine were published but overall there’s around 340 thousands of them.

Anyway, it does look like Russia doesn’t have a lot of reserves that they can realistically add to their offensive.
My previous post was wrong. It is 75% of the active ground forces that are belived to be deployed, not all forces. I don't think the Rosgvardia is included in that as they are seen more as an domestic force, at least they where befor this war.
 

Rajma

Full Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
8,580
Location
Lithuania
Bye bye, it’s symbolic for us to start this irreversible trend. We’ve been the first ones to break away from Soviet occupation and later others have followed, hopefully, it will lead to the same sort of effect here too.
 
Last edited:

TMDaines

Fun sponge.
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
13,996
This has been one of the bleakest days in the war so far seeing what has happened in Bucha, and then learning that Russia has kidnapped and forced a false confession out of the pregnant survivor from the Mariupol hospital, Marianna. Some genuinely disgusting and upsetting scenes.

You shouldn’t put dead bodies on front of newspapers all too often, but this is one of those times when the world needs it right in front of them. feck those bastards. feck them.
 

Carolina Red

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
36,422
Location
South Carolina
I'm speaking out my ass a bit here, but given that they pulled units from as far as the Far East district, I think they probably committed well over 75% of what they have available of professional units for offensive action. Meaning that if Putin asked his military to launch an offensive campaign anywhere else right now they'd probably just have to laugh at him.

Modern militaries just aren't that big, not when compared to the giant WW2 armies that were a result of commiting over 50% of GDP towards the war on the part of most belligerents. Even the US Army only has 11 divisions today compared to the 91 that were raised during WW2.
I would have to agree with you. Russia is incapable right now of fighting on another offensive front against any sizeable / decently trained enemy’s military. And honestly, they really don’t have enough professional soldiers to perform this current invasion, as they’re having to use large amounts of conscripts as it is.

Armies have definitely trimmed down from what they used to be… the key factor being technologies serving as force multipliers, especially in NATO forces, allowing smaller units in the chain of command having firepower/fighting power equal to older larger formations.
 

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
6,428
Supports
Hannover 96
Bye bye, it’s symbolic for us to start this irreversible trend. We’ve been the first ones to break away from Soviet occupation and later others have followed, hopefully, it will lead to the same sort of effect here too.
I understand you are Lithuanian than? Makes me proud to have helped you people with that transition away from Russian dependency :)
 

Carolina Red

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
36,422
Location
South Carolina
I really hope they have correctly followed the Geneva Convention protocols in poisoning occupiers.

Are there any new noticeable movements in the last days? Is Mariupol still resisting? Is the UA pushing through the east yet?
I’m sure they had the Geneva approved recipe book open for reference as they baked them.

Here’s the updated war map for today…
 

frostbite

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,245
No one denies Russian war crimes. It isn't about proving Ukrainians aren't saints. It's about preventing the scope for legitimate debate being narrowed so far that we ignore atrocities because they prove inconvenient to our preferred narrative. The Russian bombardment of Mariupol is one big war crime. The Ukrainian treatment of POWs and Roma civillians is also a war crime. You can't be selective about criminality in war to the extent that you hold one side up as faultless and another as purely evil. It's an interesting feature of Western media (in this moment) whereby they feel the need to rehabilitate the likes of the Azov because they're working to a zero criticism policy regarding Ukraine. That approach backfires. By compromising your basic moral editorial code for one repugnant element (which happens to be a minority) you open the door to mistrust, doubt, and secondary contamination of the Ukrainian war effort as a whole because you have demonstrated a will to bend your credibility depending on how convenient it is to report the truth.

But for the bold. I pointed out the civillian corridor war crime weeks ago. Aside from that, I don't see much need to post about Russian war crimes because they are taken for granted. It represents the dominant theme in this thread and no one, that I see, disputes any of them. Human Rights Watch and other watchdogs like that have confirmed a whole series of Russian atrocities and their record is almost spotless.
I don't know what the "narrative" is. But again, things are quite simple. Who wins in a war? The one who kills the most enemies. There are exceptions, but that's the general rule, isn't it?
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
Once again I recommend the daily videos from this guy, complete with detailed and very up-to-date maps. He appears to be ex-military, doesn't waffle and quickly condenses a lot information. Each new report comes out very late evening UK time.

 

Pintu

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
4,177
Location
Sweden
This has been one of the bleakest days in the war so far seeing what has happened in Bucha, and then learning that Russia has kidnapped and forced a false confession out of the pregnant survivor from the Mariupol hospital, Marianna. Some genuinely disgusting and upsetting scenes.

You shouldn’t put dead bodies on front of newspapers all too often, but this is one of those times when the world needs it right in front of them. feck those bastards. feck them.
Agree. Actually, despite AFP reporting it and the mayor himself confirming it, the Bucha news still hasn't made it to the MSM in here. When I search for the keywords "mass grave Bucha" on Twitter the only verified TV that shows up mentioning it are Aljazeera and some other non-western media ().
 

maniak

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
9,999
Location
Lisboa
Supports
Arsenal
Perhaps the only "controversial opinion" in what I wrote above, is that I really believe that the average Russian is responsible for Putin. But that's the abstract "average" Russian, not a particular individual. There are definitely victims in Russia, for example Navalny and many others who are in prison, or Nemtsov and many others who have been assassinated, or those who had to leave Russia because they were afraid, or those who are continually harassed by the police. Yes, there are many many victims in Russia today. However, these Russian victims are a minority. The majority has supported Putin for 20 years. The majority of Russians like that Putin is a strongman. In a similar way, the average German in 1937 did not want war against England, France, USA and Russia, but in 1937 they did like Hitler and they were happy that he was making all the "hard decisions". It was only after losing the war that they stopped supporting Hitler.
In Portugal, during the New State era, the consensus was that the majority of people supported the government and even the wars in Africa. In the elections, the government party won elections with numbers similar to Putin. Official media told everyone how happy the people were.

But if you talk to the people who lived it, if you read underground publications and portuguese authors from that period, it becomes clear the majority of people were simply afraid of speaking up because Portugal is a small country and no one outside cared about what happened to the common citizen sent to prison or labor camps in Angola.

I'm always very hesitant to paint with a wide brush the population of countries where freedom doesn't exist and conclude people support the tyrant. I dated a russian girl many winters ago and she (and her friends) hated Putin and the situation in Russia. One day I saw her post some celebration bs about Putin's party related with her university. When I asked her why the feck was she doing it, she told me the people from her college would see who didn't post it and ask them why. So from an outside perspective, yeah the students supported it, but it was fear, not support.

We don't have reliable numbers, so I don't buy this "majority support him" talk.