39 attempts on target, 20 goals scored

[The Oracle]

Our five heaviest away defeats in the league this season:

Watford 4-1 Man Utd
7 attempts on target by Watford

Leicester 4-2 Man Utd
11 attempts on target by Leicester

Man City 4-1 Man Utd
10 attempts on target by City

Liverpool 4-0 Man Utd
5 attempts on target by Liverpool

Brighton 4-0 Man Utd
6 attempts on target by Brighton

39 attempts on target at the goalkeeper, 20 goals scored


On average, every 2nd attempt we faced on target from our combined five heaviest away defeats in the league this season, ended up as a goal

De Gea was the goalkeeper in all of the matches.

Should the highest paid goalkeeper in the world be blamed in any way?

What are your thoughts on conceding every 2nd attempt on target in those matches combined?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Going to have to watch all the goals individually to make this fair. I’d wager some are on DDG but many more will be on our dog shite ability to keep the ball in routine situations.

 

[hellhunter]

Didn't DDG have the best xG-goals conceded value in the league?

 

[JustAGuest]

Depends on what the defenders are doing, many of those goals De Gea had no chance. It's not like De Gea cost us any points in these games anyway, so I'm not sure why he should be blamed -- or is it blaming him for the scorelines?

 

[Tarrou]

his shot save % this season is 68.3%, which puts him 9th best

I don't see much point in focusing on these five games in particular

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Off the top of my head I don't think De Gea was clearly at fault for most of them.

For me the most obvious problem visually has been midfield. Losing the ball easily, getting bypassed far too easily, not successfully closing and covering space. We've allowed way too many teams to just go past the centre and run full speed at our backline

 

[SirReginald]

This is just taking stats at face value and not researching in depth why you conceded. I can tell you by not even reviewing anything that De Gea will have fault in some goals, so will the defense and so will the midfield.

The first goal you conceded yesterday.. there were commentators trying to blame De Gea. He didn’t even see the ball until it passed through the legs of Lindleof I believe and literally had no time to react.

Him being overpaid is a separate issue entirely. He might not be peak De Gea but he is the least of your problems right now.

 

[caid]

I think the idea that de gea has been back to his best and largely faultless this season doesn't hold up to be honest. I missed Brightons last 2 goals last night but the first 2 probably should have been saved. Unsighted by 2 players for the first so understandable, bit of a soft goal but it can be written off as unlucky. Facing a great strike for the 2nd so fair enough but it was at near post so the best shot stopper in the world should probably keep it out.
He's been decent this season, hasn't thrown it in his own net but I dont think it'd be too hard to upgrade.

 

[sullydnl]

As a team we've seen our goalkeeper make the second most saves in the league while also facing the second highest average level of difficulty per shot.

In other words our defensive issues have stemmed from allowing too many (and too many high value) chances rather than our goalkeeper failing to stop enough of the chances he's faced.

I would imagine the goals conceded in those heavy defeats would follow a similar pattern.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Depends on what the defenders are doing, many of those goals De Gea had no chance. It's not like De Gea cost us any points in these games anyway, so I'm not sure why he should be blamed -- or is it blaming him for the scorelines?

I completely disagree. Sometimes your goalkeeper makes it LOOK like he had no chance.
Even yesterday he was beaten on his near post twice. One was a deflection and one was a good finish, sure - but you need your goalkeeper to do better.

Our defence is absolutely shocking, it's true. But de Gea has his part of the blame at times. To answer @The Oracle 's original point: I do not feel like de Gea is a safer pair of hands than Henderson and that's a hill I will die on and I'd be surprised if Ten Hag doesn't look at that himself. But then there have been the odd game where de Gea has won it on his own and it makes you forget things like "any shot on target against us is basically a goal", which is as grim as our defence.

 

[Ali Dia]

his shot save % this season is 68.3%, which puts him 9th best

I don't see much point in focusing on these five games in particular

9th best is far from good enough from the highest paid keeper in the world. Obviously there are mitigating factors but still clearly not enough to bring him up to a more suitable level.

Someone else was saying in another thread that Rashford is amongst the lowest scoring (stat and work rate wise, whereas it was only just work rate wise previously) of all the forwards in the main leagues in Europe. I don’t know in what world that’s acceptable. The players have stuck their fingers up at all of us. Laughing all the way to the bank.

The club needs to take the power back asap and then maybe we will see vastly improved performances from the players who decide to row in. Anybody who doesn’t want to but thinks they can stick around because of their contract should be cut at any cost this summer, end of story.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I just find it pointless to even discuss whether De Gea’s shot stopping is good enough. For a team with our aspirations the ability to stop shots is relatively unimportant and every other element of his game is so bad who cares whether he’s top, middle or bottom of the shot stopping league?

 

[GazTheLegend]

There's something that's been on my mind to add to my earlier point: does de Gea look best against bad finishers? This might sound stupid but I think his best games tend to be against "bad finishers" so to speak, like specifically in my mind I can recall him having great games Vs Raheem Sterling and Timo Werner, but as soon as a proper finisher like Salah or Ronaldo come up against him he is ineffectual. That might be overthinking things but it goes a way in my mind to explaining some of those brilliant performances of his because de Gea makes those poor finishes look like good saves.

 

[GazTheLegend]

I just find it pointless to even discuss whether De Gea’s shot stopping is good enough. For a team with our aspirations the ability to stop shots is relatively unimportant and every other element of his game is so bad who cares whether he’s top, middle or bottom of the shot stopping league?

Misread your post. Agree to a point but stopping shots can win titles.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Bit random but my eldest just this morning lost to the best U13 team in Ireland, Shamrock Rovers. That’s the club that very recently produced Gavin Bazunu. Their goalkeeper spent most of the game just inside his own half, pinging passes round with his right and left foot. An extra man in defence. I’m willing to bet De Gea has never played that way, at any level. In goalkeeping terms he’s a fecking dinosaur.

 

[caid]

I just find it pointless to even discuss whether De Gea’s shot stopping is good enough. For a team with our aspirations the ability to stop shots is relatively unimportant and every other element of his game is so bad who cares whether he’s top, middle or bottom of the shot stopping league?

It matters in the sense of what order should he be replaced. Is he a worse keeper than say shaw is a left back.

 

[Tarrou]

9th best is far from good enough from the highest paid keeper in the world. Obviously there are mitigating factors but still clearly not enough to bring him up to a more suitable level.

Someone else was saying in another thread that Rashford is amongst the lowest scoring (stat and work rate wise, whereas it was only just work rate wise previously) of all the forwards in the main leagues in Europe. I don’t know in what world that’s acceptable. The players have stuck their fingers up at all of us. Laughing all the way to the bank.

The club needs to take the power back asap and then maybe we will see vastly improved performances from the players who decide to row in. Anybody who doesn’t want to but thinks they can stick around because of their contract should be cut at any cost this summer, end of story.

It's not the best stat to assess how good he's been though. Was just using the same metrics as OP. Some sort of xG stat would be better I think?

 

[0le]

Bit random but my eldest just this morning lost to the best U13 team in Ireland, Shamrock Rovers. That’s the club that very recently produced Gavin Bazunu. Their goalkeeper spent most of the game just inside his own half, pinging passes round with his right and left foot. An extra man in defence. I’m willing to bet De Gea has never played that way, at any level. In goalkeeping terms he’s a fecking dinosaur.

I just find it pointless to even discuss whether De Gea’s shot stopping is good enough. For a team with our aspirations the ability to stop shots is relatively unimportant and every other element of his game is so bad who cares whether he’s top, middle or bottom of the shot stopping league?

Another day and another opportunity for Pogue to tell us how much he dislikes DDG.

 

[dove]

Should the highest paid goalkeeper in the world be blamed in any way?

What are your thoughts on conceding every 2nd attempt on target in those matches combined?

You can have the best paid goalkeeper in the universe but if your defence is shit, it won't help. I don't think there is anything even to argue about De Gea's shot stopping ability.

 

[Jippy]

Hate these pompous clickbait headlines that are not clear on what the thread's about.

 

[Dante]

Look at the first 3 goals yesterday. In each case, the defensive line was inside the 6 yard box and the midfield line was around the penalty spot. This has been happening over and over this season and it really shouldn't be. The goalie's job is supposed to be to push his defenders up so that he can command the penalty area.

It goes without saying that DDG's shot stopping can be world class at times. But his reactiveness vs his proactiveness plays a big factor in putting him in a position to 'shot stop' when it would be better instead if could help the team to 'chance stop'.

I think United would overall be improved with a boring goalkeeper who physically dominated his box while still flapping a few easy goals in. Might look worse on MOTD. But the team would be more secure for it.

 

[lex talionis]

As a few others have already pointed out, one has to review each goal to determine whether or not De Gea “should have” saved the shot. One would also have to review whether each save he did make was a save that a keeper of the level of Allison, Ederson and Mendy would have made…which is obviously subjective in nature.

But before we even go there, any honest observer of United this season would acknowledge that De Gea is not the problem and that our back line and our midfield has been the problem. Some might add the front line as well. And of course, the manager before he was sacked. And the board, who supervised the construction of this castle of sand.

 

[Leftback99]

Goalkeepers rarely get criticised for the goals they concede unless it's an obvious howler. De Gea gets overrated because he has so many shots to save, the same as any average PL keeper would if they were starting games behind our 10 outfield players.

Relegated team's goalkeepers are very often their player of the year for this reason.

 

[Lentwood]

Our five heaviest away defeats in the league this season:

Watford 4-1 Man Utd
7 attempts on target by Watford

Leicester 4-2 Man Utd
11 attempts on target by Leicester

Man City 4-1 Man Utd
10 attempts on target by City

Liverpool 4-0 Man Utd
5 attempts on target by Liverpool

Brighton 4-0 Man Utd
6 attempts on target by Brighton

39 attempts on target at the goalkeeper, 20 goals scored


On average, every 2nd attempt we faced on target from our combined five heaviest away defeats in the league this season, ended up as a goal

De Gea was the goalkeeper in all of the matches.

Should the highest paid goalkeeper in the world be blamed in any way?

What are your thoughts on conceding every 2nd attempt on target in those matches combined?

I have always wondered about this. I have never had the Data to back-up my "gut feel" but it does seem like opponents don't need many shots on our goal to rack-up big scores, whilst we need tonnes of chances to score one.

Personally, I am sceptical of xS Data for GKs, because unless someone can educate me, I don't know how it can possibly take into account starting position and how good a GK is at getting into a position to make a save.

It feels like DDGs style of GKing will lead to one or two saves other GKs wouldn't make but generally his very passive style is a net-negative overall.

 

[Idxomer]

It matters in the sense of what order should he be replaced. Is he a worse keeper than say shaw is a left back.

Yes, by a considerable margin too.

Shaw at his best helps his team play better football, the same can't be said for De Gea.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Another day and another opportunity for Pogue to tell us how much he dislikes DDG.

Forgive me for feeling strongly about the most highly paid goalkeeper in the world being so bad at his job.

 

[Longshanks]

I'd say its more to do with shot prevention than shot stopping, something which having de gea in nets is a massive problem for us. I reckon on average de gea faces alot more shots than any other goalkeeper because he does nothing than shot stop, whereas more assertaive GK's stop attacks before they get dangerous de gea allows attacks to build and become dangerous because he essentially refuses to command his area or sweep behind a high defensive line.

I wonder out of those 39 attempts on target how many times in the build up to the goal the ball was somewhere between the goalposts up to the penalty spot and should of been claimed by the GK, or how many times it was because the midfield pushed up and the defence didn't, because why would you with captain stuck to his line behind you and there was acres of space inbetween for the opposition to play in to.

Every single defender that plays infront of him falls apart, good quality proven centre backs look like confused panicking idiots trying to defend infront of de gea. And I can't blame them because it must be a nightmare to have to try and effectively defend absolutely everything, clear every single ball into the box, don't dare push forward because if you do you will be running half the length of the pitch to deal with an overhit through ball oh and don't pass back to de gea, because he will likely just give it straight back to the oppo anyway. With all that to try and do at the highest level against the very best it no wonder they all turn into the chuckle brothers.

 

[Frank White]

9th best is far from good enough from the highest paid keeper in the world. Obviously there are mitigating factors but still clearly not enough to bring him up to a more suitable level.

Someone else was saying in another thread that Rashford is amongst the lowest scoring (stat and work rate wise, whereas it was only just work rate wise previously) of all the forwards in the main leagues in Europe. I don’t know in what world that’s acceptable. The players have stuck their fingers up at all of us. Laughing all the way to the bank.

The club needs to take the power back asap and then maybe we will see vastly improved performances from the players who decide to row in. Anybody who doesn’t want to but thinks they can stick around because of their contract should be cut at any cost this summer, end of story.

Got a link for that? Would love to know where are other forwards place in that list too, Sancho can't be far off either.

 

[lex talionis]

It might be helpful if we start a new thread that analyses every goal De Gea concedes — and if we have the bandwidth for it, every goal he has ever conceded going all the way back to the Dzeko goal a decade ago. Let’s not even worry about the saves, such as the Mata free kick. Let’s just focus on his goals conceded.

There have been some De Gea howlers, no question. But I suspect we’ll find is that the overwhelming majority of goals De Gea conceded are goals that his top peers could not have saved.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Its funny. Up top we've got a superstar who scores goals but doesn't provide so much that you need to play front foot possesion and pressing football. And at the backup we've got undoubtedly our best player of the post SAF era who also isn't suited to possession football.

 

[Ali Dia]

Got a link for that? Would love to know where are other forwards place in that list too, Sancho can't be far off either.

I was having a look there to see if I could find a solid link or where the conversation was but the Rashford thread is massive as you can probably appreciate, I also find it very hard to navigate fbrief on my phone. I guess you’ll have to take my word for it

His goals and assists vs minutes played is appalling even for a mid table/relegation PL side let alone a side that supposedly had top 3 aspirations and the 0 work rate is clearly there for all to see. If he was at any other club on a regular contract he’d be in real trouble after a season like this.

Surely going forward we have to look at it from a value perspective. Who’s getting paid the most and playing the worst and start the cull from there. It’s meaningless otherwise

 

[StatsAreMeaningless]

I'm going to waste 1/3 of my daily posts to repeat my username and say that stats are meaningless without context. Please post the videos of these matches and see the quality of goals conceded and the comical defending on display.

 

[Frank White]

I was having a look there to see if I could find a solid link or where the conversation was but the Rashford thread is massive as you can probably appreciate, I also find it very hard to navigate fbrief on my phone. I guess you’ll have to take my word for it

His goals and assists vs minutes played is appalling even for a mid table/relegation PL side let alone a side that supposedly had top 3 aspirations and the 0 work rate is clearly there for all to see. If he was at any other club on a regular contract he’d be in real trouble after a season like this.

Surely going forward we have to look at it from a value perspective. Who’s getting paid the most and playing the worst and start the cull from there. It’s meaningless otherwise

Just had a check myself, doesn't make for pleasant reading for either tbh. Sancho is on 1900 minutes played with 3/3 and Rashford is 1235 played with 4/2 both have nearly identical horrible defensive stats too. Surprised to see Rashford having more pressures and more successful pressure though. Not surprised to see Sancho wipe the floor with him on the passing and possession stats.

 

[Trequarista10]

We give away many clear cut chances, because we don't defend as a team. These aren't long range hopefully shots, or shots from awkward angles under heavy defensive pressure.

People think where we're at is so bad it couldn't possibly be worse, but without DDG it would be so much worse it's frightening to even think about.

 

[PSV]

I hated my Sunday so I just watched them all (once).

Liverpool 4-0:
1st goal: Free shot from 5 meters. Jones/Lindelof both gets outrun by Diaz. Dalot realizes he's outmanned on his side so decides to go off playing winger instead and Maguire is playing folding midfielder.
2nd goal: Free shot from 10 meters. Salah outruns Dalot and scores. The type of goal I would applaud if it wasn't Liverpool. Great piece of play.
3rd goal: Free shot from 12 meters by Mane. Maguire forgets that he's marking him.
4th goal: AWB loses his man. Maguire is doing some type of offside dance. Salah free shot from 8-9 meters.
Verdict: None of these goals are De Gea's fault.

Leicester 4-2:
1st goal: Maguire is trying to emulate Messi just outside own penalty box, goes wrong and ball gets played to Tielemans who lobs it into the far corner from the edge of the penalty box. Great goal to be fair.
2nd goal: Corner ends up inside box. De Gea saves a shot from 8 meters or so. It ricochets to the guy that Maguire single-handedly has kept both onside and unmarked at the near post.
3rd goal: We're 6v3 inside own box and Maguire is marking Vardy, but proceeds to deem him no threat and leaves him alone at about 11 meters. Free shot.
4th goal: Set piece. Daka is marked by Maguire, but cleverly sneaks past Maguire behind his back without his knowledge. Some move that as this leaves him alone at the far post with an easy tap-in.
Verdict: None of these goals are De Gea's fault. Also, all of these goals are Maguire's fault.

Manchester City 4-1:
1st goal: We decide to go for the 3 right backs tactic and this leaves us vulnerable in the box. Sancho has yet to discover defensive work and Telles/Maguire is 2v3 inside the box. Free shot by De Bruyne from 5 meters.
2nd goal: Foden channel his inner 'dinho and gets a shot off from 5 meters (saved by De Gea), City ends up 4v3 inside our box for about 3 eternities and eventually scores after some ricochet. Lindelof and Sancho with the best seats in the house just outside our penalty box.
3rd goal: City with a corner they've practiced. Free shot from 16 meters by Mahrez. Goes through everyone and into the far netting. We've got all 11 players inside our own box leaving just 1 City player in the box unmarked, but also noone picks up Mahrez just outside it.
4th goal: De Gea with a poor clearance under pressure. Telles tries to display knowledge of the offside trap, but VAR disagrees with his interpretation and Mahrez gets a free one-on-one with De Gea.
Verdict: I suppose you could blame him for the 4th goal as he gives it to a City player in the middle of our own half. McTominay is playing right back or something as AWB just about comes home from his adventure upfield as City scores.

Brighton 4-0:
1st goal: Precision shot by Caicedo. No way De Gea sees that shot. Great shot. McTominay doing his best spinning block move but to no alas. Through some legs as well.
2nd goal: Our team slowly jogs over from one side to the other as Brighton shifts play. They end up with 2 completely unmarked midfielders at about 16 meters. One of them scores. It looks like we're doing that tactic where we have 6 left midfielders and noone in the center.
3rd goal: Again they have a free man on 16 meters. He gets the ball and puts it in the net. Where's our midfielders?
4th goal: Ball played behind Varane who embarrassingly tries to intercept. Brighton end up 3v2 inside our box. At least we did what we could to prevent a Welbeck goal, because that would truly have been embarrassing.
Verdict: None of these are De Gea's fault.

Watford 4-1:
1st goal: We're 7v4 inside our own box and King is left unmarked at 5 meters. He shoots just to the side of De Gea and De Gea gets half a foot on the shot and fumbles it into the net. Would have had a better chance saving with his hands I reckon.
2nd goal: We leave Sarr free about 10 meters out and he hammers it home. Maguire seems busy marking the goal post.
3rd goal: Shot from about 6 meters. Goes in at De Gea's post. Lindelof makes the absolute minimum amount of effort in trying to block said shot. Should still have saved.
4th goal: Almost exactly the same as the 3rd goal, but this one is shot at the far post and I don't think De Gea is supposed to save it.
Verdict: I think De Gea could have prevented at least one if not two of these, free shot from 5 meters though.

In short, outside of maybe the Watford game there's not much that's down to De Gea.

Having watched the highlights it's absurd how many close range shots we allow, luckily a lot of them go outside the target and De Gea saves quite a few as well.

So if we break it down of these 20 goals there's at best 3 goals where De Gea could do better, 15 or so that's down to our shit team in front of De Gea and 2, maybe 3 goals that's fair play, well done to the other team.

 

[SoCross]

Bit random but my eldest just this morning lost to the best U13 team in Ireland, Shamrock Rovers. That’s the club that very recently produced Gavin Bazunu. Their goalkeeper spent most of the game just inside his own half, pinging passes round with his right and left foot. An extra man in defence. I’m willing to bet De Gea has never played that way, at any level. In goalkeeping terms he’s a fecking dinosaur.

Sign him up!

 

[Rightnr]

This thread must be a joke. Most of these were 1-on-1 or a clear-cut chance. Absolute agenda thread by someone who either doesn't watch the games or worse.

The only fair way to do this comparison is to include xG but even then it's an absolutely ridiculous logic.

 

[mikeyt]

We have all sorts of problems that need fixing but people saying replacing De Gea isn't a priority are off the mark imo. In game after game through his lack of ability to communicate, command, catch and distribute we concede so many goals and for me he needs to be replaced.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Bit random but my eldest just this morning lost to the best U13 team in Ireland, Shamrock Rovers. That’s the club that very recently produced Gavin Bazunu. Their goalkeeper spent most of the game just inside his own half, pinging passes round with his right and left foot. An extra man in defence. I’m willing to bet De Gea has never played that way, at any level. In goalkeeping terms he’s a fecking dinosaur.

Leave his box? He barely leaves the line.
One that stood out yesterday was varanes mistake in the first half that led to welbeck lobbing him.
He should be reading the game and seeing the potential danger, Alison or ederson would be onto that loose ball instantly.
Instead he was just stood there waiting for the inevitable.

Another that annoyed me was arsenal's second before it was disallowed, instead rushing on top of the striker to block him, he just slowly stepped sideways showing him an entire goal to aim at.
Brighton's first he went down in slow motion, almost like he couldn't be bothered. It was such a half arsed attempt.

He's supposed to be the base of the team and the last line of defence, but he just hides.

 

[RedStarUnited]

I have always wondered about this. I have never had the Data to back-up my "gut feel" but it does seem like opponents don't need many shots on our goal to rack-up big scores, whilst we need tonnes of chances to score one.

Personally, I am sceptical of xS Data for GKs, because unless someone can educate me, I don't know how it can possibly take into account starting position and how good a GK is at getting into a position to make a save.

It feels like DDGs style of GKing will lead to one or two saves other GKs wouldn't make but generally his very passive style is a net-negative overall.

We allow a lotmof high quality attacking situations , which then meansthe other team dont need a worldie to score.

Before Brighton scored the 2-0 goal yesterday, they had enough opportunities to possibly score but messed up the pass or touch.

Is there a stat on how many turnovers a team gets against them? Id love yo see that for us.