Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Carolina Red]

2) It doesn't matter if only $19.billion will be coming from the US because that's on top of other money that's already come from the US, EU, UK and elsewhere - and on top of money yet to come from the EU, UK and elsewhere.

What he leaves out is that another $16 billion of that bill is for economic and humanitarian aid.

 

[Beans]

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I'll buy him a horse and a lance if he wants to have at them. Will need to bring his own Sancho Panza.

 

[WI_Red]

I'll buy him a horse and a lance if he wants to have at them. Will need to bring his own Sancho Panza.

Ted Cruz is getting fitted for a saddle as I type this.

 

[Beans]

Ted Cruz is getting fitted for a saddle as I type this.

Is that what they're calling it these days...

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

I know it's just a meltdown from a nobody on a football forum, but christ that Paxi rant has depressed me. It could have been from one of my own brothers, he'd also describe himself as against the war and Putin, but can't disentangle himself from a sense of nationalism and feeling that countrymen couldn't be capable of doing most of these things. Before you know it, things are being justified or dismissed in a careless contrarian way that never should be, especially war crimes. There are a lot of people that will tie themselves in knots before it sets in that Putin is leading the country down a very dark path.

 

[Gehrman]

I know it's just a meltdown from a nobody on a football forum, but christ that Paxi rant has depressed me. It could have been from one of my own brothers, he'd also describe himself as against the war and Putin, but can't disentangle himself from a sense of nationalism and feeling that countrymen couldn't be capable of doing most of these things. Before you know it, things are being justified or dismissed in a careless contrarian way that never should be, especially war crimes. There are a lot of people that will tie themselves in knots before it sets in that Putin is leading the country down a very dark path.

The overall lack of condemnation of the war by a lot of Russians is what I find disheartening. I know Russia isn't a democracy, doesn't have free press or free speech, but I would still have expected more protests by now. I know there are lots of wonderful Russians against the war like @harms and some real life friends but it seems the majority is with their dear leader in trying annex a fairly large neighboring country. Its surprising Paxi can hold the views he does with accessorisk to the free press.

 

[Gehrman]

How can you disagree that there are immoral actions that are strategically advantageous? Are you saying that anything that gives a country an advantage against another is moral? Would you say the same thing for the individual, anything that gives me an advantage in life is moral?

Like nuking North Korea, for example. That's not okay, even if it makes the world a safer place. You can take a position that making the world safer justifies evil action, but it's still evil. And you have the problem that this logic might be applied to anyone, which would make the world decidedly less safe.

So instead we give people and countries rights, and they're to be defended.

But Ukraine isn't a threat to Russia. Even If it joined the EU and later Nato. Poland isn't a threat to Russia either despite their proximity to Russia. Also regarding the legality of the war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

 

[harms]

I know Russia isn't a democracy, doesn't have free press or free speech, but I would still have expected more protests by now.

The protests are done now simply because they don't lead up to anything — you won't be able to get even a 100 people together without alerting the authorities (and getting a prison sentence) & the minute you come to the streets, you're done. There are new (well, not really new) different forms of horizontal protests that aren't really visible from the outside due to their decentralised nature and focus (from the ground up, not the other way around). It's really hard to estimate the amount of those involved, which is intentional as if it's hard for you to see the clear picture, it's also hard for the police/FSB/FSO etc.

But yeah, it's still most certainly a minority.

 

[Gehrman]

The protests are done now simply because they don't lead up to anything — you won't be able to get even a 100 people together without alerting the authorities (and getting a prison sentence) & the minute you come to the streets, you're done. There are new (well, not really new) different forms of horizontal protests that aren't really visible from the outside due to their decentralised nature and focus (from the ground up, not the other way around). It's really hard to estimate the amount of those involved, which is intentional as if it's hard for you to see the clear picture, it's also hard for the police/FSB/FSO etc.

But yeah, it's still most certainly a minority.

Yeah i understand that protests might be futile anyway.

 

[TwoSheds]

The protests are done now simply because they don't lead up to anything — you won't be able to get even a 100 people together without alerting the authorities (and getting a prison sentence) & the minute you come to the streets, you're done. There are new (well, not really new) different forms of horizontal protests that aren't really visible from the outside due to their decentralised nature and focus (from the ground up, not the other way around). It's really hard to estimate the amount of those involved, which is intentional as if it's hard for you to see the clear picture, it's also hard for the police/FSB/FSO etc.

But yeah, it's still most certainly a minority.

Fair enough if you can't but I was wondering if you could give an example of what you mean by horizontal protests? Stuff like people downloading VPNs to access outside news, or something more direct like hacking / displaying symbols on public buildings perhaps?

 

[the hea]

I would be very careful sharing info from this twitter source, it's likely a fake who just aggregates widely available info

You are probably right but it does not seem like he makes things up as every thing he says seems to be in line with what others are reporting . I have only followed him for a couple of weeks but it always seemed like he had way to much time to be on twitter for a guy fighting in the war. Other foreign fighters who tweet only do so very sporadically when away from the front lines so this guy updating twitter multiple time a day always looked a little strange. I wont post any more tweets from him.

 

[Carolina Red]

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[Frosty]

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[nimic]

That twitter account does share a lot of good content, I wouldn't say it is a bad source. There are just a lot of questions about if he is really on the ground there, he seems to be just plucking it all from various telegram channels while pretending he's in the thick of it.

If he's lying about being actually there, then he's pretty much automatically a bad source IMO. It makes him unreliable.

 

[harms]

Fair enough if you can't but I was wondering if you could give an example of what you mean by horizontal protests? Stuff like people downloading VPNs to access outside news, or something more direct like hacking / displaying symbols on public buildings perhaps?

Spreading the information by any means possible, from the technical things like explaining how to set up a VPN to more expressive stuff like graffiti, printed materials, actions like putting up graveyard crosses on playgrounds with information about Mariupol, replacing shop price tags with information about the war crimes or even (this one sounds ridiculous but turned out to be incredibly effective) creating WhatsApp celebratory cards* for Easter, Victory Day etc. with anti-War texts on them. And, well, simply talking about it.

* not sure if that’s the thing out there but in Russia the elderly generation is obsessed with sending everyone those awfully looking pics with celebrations of every possible holiday — from something big like Christmas to obscure stuff like the international day of postal workers or smth.

 

[harms]

Hacking also happens but I don’t know much about this stuff so I can’t really tell you about it. And I’m not sure how much of it is done by Russians and how much by Ukrainians or even the Anonymous.

 

[harms]

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That’s great to hear.

 

[the hea]

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[TwoSheds]

Spreading the information by any means possible, from the technical things like explaining how to set up a VPN to more expressive stuff like graffiti, printed materials, actions like putting up graveyard crosses on playgrounds with information about Mariupol, replacing shop price tags with information about the war crimes or even (this one sounds ridiculous but turned out to be incredibly effective) creating WhatsApp celebratory cards* for Easter, Victory Day etc. with anti-War texts on them. And, well, simply talking about it.

* not sure if that’s the thing out there but in Russia the elderly generation is obsessed with sending everyone those awfully looking pics with celebrations of every possible holiday — from something big like Christmas to obscure stuff like the international day of postal workers or smth.

Interesting, thanks for explaining. Not sure it is a thing in the UK really but older Portuguese people do something a bit similar so I think I can understand it.

 

[Rajma]

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[Frosty]

I cannot post the tweet here because it is so graphic, but Ukrainian journalist Anastasiia Lapatina has been posted some images of civilian dead from Mariupol.

The tweet says:

"This is #Mariupol. Dead bodies of Ukrainians rot at a supermarket. There are so many dead that there isn’t a capacity to bury them, even considering mass graves and mobile crematoriums. This should tell you everything you need to know about Russia’s war in Ukraine"

It is available on Twitter if you want to search for it.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

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If I talk I’m in a big trouble.

It is hard to believe that Liz Truss is right on a major issue like this while the German and French leaders are wrong. The world is crazy.

 

[calodo2003]

I cannot post the tweet here because it is so graphic, but Ukrainian journalist Anastasiia Lapatina has been posted some images of civilian dead from Mariupol.

The tweet says:

"This is #Mariupol. Dead bodies of Ukrainians rot at a supermarket. There are so many dead that there isn’t a capacity to bury them, even considering mass graves and mobile crematoriums. This should tell you everything you need to know about Russia’s war in Ukraine"

It is available on Twitter if you want to search for it.

Even @Paxi couldn’t deny that.

Horrifying.

 

[Stactix]

Even @Paxi couldn’t deny that.

Horrifying.

Wouldn't surprise me, someone appears to be in complete denial. Daddys a hero!

 

[Frosty]

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[GlastonSpur]

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[Simbo]

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If I talk I’m in a big trouble.

When Putin makes a big push for peace talks, could mean he thinks they are in the strongest position they are going to get.

Watch out for all his western assets pushing his cause.

 

[Water Melon]

Ukraine's position is crystal clear. There will be no peace agreement unless Russia pulls out of Donbass and Crimea. Ceasefire can only happen if the rushist decides to pull his troops back to pre Feb 24 territories. Long story short, no chance of the war stopping in the near future.

 

[Frosty]

Very interesting (and long) read here from the Institute for the Study of War:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-28

Key Takeaways

• Russian forces pressed the ground assault on Severodonetsk and its environs, making limited gains.
• Russian forces in Kharkiv continue to focus efforts on preventing a Ukrainian counteroffensive from reaching the international border between Kharkiv and Belgorod.
• Ukrainian forces began a counteroffensive near the Kherson-Mykolaiv oblast border approximately 70 km to the northeast of Kherson City that may have crossed the Inhulets River.
• Russia’s use of stored T-62 tanks in the southern axis indicates Russia’s continued materiel and force generation problems.
• Ukrainian partisan activity continues to impose costs on Russian occupation forces in Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts.

 

[spiriticon]

Ukraine is starting to move in towards Kherson through the village of Davydiv Brid. It is slow progress due to the bad terrain for fighting in the South, but hopefully it's the start of something major.

 

[Beans]

But Ukraine isn't a threat to Russia. Even If it joined the EU and later Nato. Poland isn't a threat to Russia either despite their proximity to Russia. Also regarding the legality of the war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

I wasn't arguing anything different.

 

[Gehrman]

I wasn't arguing anything different.

I know. I shouldnt have quoted you. It was more a response to you and paxi's exchange.

 

[Raoul]

Ukraine is starting to move in towards Kherson through the village of Davydiv Brid. It is slow progress due to the bad terrain for fighting in the South, but hopefully it's the start of something major.

Can't imagine the Russians will be able to hold Kherson indefinitely with both the Ukrainians launcing a counteroffensive and the citizens randomly sabotaging them from within the city.

 

[spiriticon]

Can't imagine the Russians will be able to hold Kherson indefinitely with both the Ukrainians launcing a counteroffensive and the citizens randomly sabotaging them from within the city.

I have to admit the recent non-movement in that area had me a little concerned, especially upon hearing that they are building line after line of defence. I think a full frontal assault can't be done in that region until the MLRS systems arrive, but it's good to know that Ukraine are prodding the weak points.

IMO Russia is pushing all the best forces to the East. Their forces in the South gets all the backup crap from storage. It shouldn't be too hard to get the territory with the right equipment.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

Ukraine's position is crystal clear. There will be no peace agreement unless Russia pulls out of Donbass and Crimea. Ceasefire can only happen if the rushist decides to pull his troops back to pre Feb 24 territories. Long story short, no chance of the war stopping in the near future.

I was remiss not to offer sympathy to hear about the loss of your wifes cousins child.

I think your post to a link about Ukrainian toddlers being raped and dying as a result of those injuries was deleted because you titled it 'Orks'. I've looked back through the thread to comment on it and I couldn't find it anywhere.

I can't imagine anything more inhumane. The idea of raping children and babies is absolutely sick beyond belief, almost makes me want to both vomit and cry thinking about it. I really hope it is Ukranian propoganda and not true. If not the Russians must be ordering them to rape and kill citizens. It's beyond the pale.

All the best to you and your family and friends anyway pal.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

I have to admit the recent non-movement in that area had me a little concerned, especially upon hearing that they are building line after line of defence. I think a full frontal assault can't be done in that region until the MLRS systems arrive, but it's good to know that Ukraine are prodding the weak points.

IMO Russia is pushing all the best forces to the East. Their forces in the South gets all the backup crap from storage. It shouldn't be too hard to get the territory with the right equipment.

Yep. At some point, which will probably be after the MLRS and other heavy hardware arrive, the Ukrainian forces will have a go against enemy positions in the South while the best Russian forces will be kept busy in the East.

Just to reiterate a point I made the other day, the MLRS can be deployed about anywhere in the Kyiv Oblast and then they would hit anywhere inside occupied territories and even in the Black Sea if enemy ships have to be dealt with. If those are loaded with precision-guided missiles as well, watch out!

 

[GlastonSpur]

To Replenish Its Army In Ukraine, Russia Plans To Strip Its Training Units. It Can Only Do This Once:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...its-it-can-only-do-this-once/?sh=35dd4310a98f

 

[GlastonSpur]

This guy, with his maps, provides another useful perspective, usually with daily updates:

 

[alexthelion]

I’m not brainwashed at all. You say it like Russia attacked some friendly nation.

Did Russia attack a friendly nation?

What are you on?

Better stop now, it doesn't appear to be doing you any good.

 

[alexthelion]

Not a lawyer but can you prove it? According to the charter of UN. Russia is acting in collective pre-emotive self defence.

Oh ffs, just shut up.