The thing I'm most concerned about AOB is his tendency to show up only at the end of meetings.
The ‘Deputy Football Director’ position | 31.05.2022 - Andy O’Boyle appointed
- Thread starter Chairman Steve
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I wonder if we're going to sign only bald players.
@Isotope
Simon Wells is still around and along with Jose Mayorga, will replace the two out-going head scouts.
I personally believe a club's scouting is only as good as the direction it's being set by the people leading the football side of the club. And with Solskjaer and Phelan leading the way, Simon Wells can only only identify players for the criteria set by the aforementioned two. So what the criteria was regarding player attributes/characteristics is open to speculation, but it was reported that a strategy was put forth by Solskjaer and Phelan, which focused on a particular demographic and later abandoned.
I think the below tweet outlines a criteria which will help the scouts to follow a clear plan set by the DoF/head coach. And if they do follow the criteria below, I do believe it won't be long before we get back to competing for titles.
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The criteria above should filter out the mistakes we've made in the past.
1. 'Can they out outrun the opposition'? Ticks the intensity/physicality box.
2. 'Can they outplay the opposition'? Ticks the touch and technique box.
3. 'Can they outfight the opponent'? Ticks the strong mentality box.
I think that will then allow Erik ten Hag to mould the team in his image when it comes to implementing a playstyle, togetherness and strong mentality.
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Why don't you just leave him alone
I’m sure you have. There is a flourish of changes in all parts of the club. Both you and I may speculate how many of these are driven, wanted, welcomed or resisted by Arnold and Murtaugh, but the fact is we don’t really know, do we? Regardless, there is an avalanche of people out the doors, so claiming ‘everything is so slow at the club’ with regards to personnel just doesn’t compute. Neither does the idea that we should have more new faces in by now than we do have. Speed hiring for 15 positions does not make sense.
Maybe you are thinking of previous years, when we have spent long time structuring new positions and hiring for them. Then again, that was under Woodward, with few outgoings. Now we are run by Arnold and Murtaugh, and have a multitude of changes, so generalizing from that situation to this seems fairly unfounded.
Based on those criteria, which players would not have been signed from let's say the last 5 years?
A better question might be which players would have been signed.
Not many tbh with you.
Maguire.
Thw only player that comes closest to fulfilling the criteria above is Hannibal Mejbri imo.
What is that "criteria" really? It's just a generic set of observations probably dreamt up by the author. It's highly unspecific. Who doesn't want the holy grail of player that is a physical machine, with the silkiest touch and perfect mentality? A chimp could come up with that strategy.
The trick is actually identifying these players, and when you have an idea being able to crunch the data and having the observational skill to determine how players rate which isn't always clear or requires extrapolation across leagues. We can all sit here and say we'd like players to be like that but sometimes they're not quite ticking every box and you also have to compromise to build a complimentary set of players that can cover each others weaknesses. Squad building is a very tricky thing.
The trick is actually identifying these players, and when you have an idea being able to crunch the data and having the observational skill to determine how players rate which isn't always clear or requires extrapolation across leagues. We can all sit here and say we'd like players to be like that but sometimes they're not quite ticking every box and you also have to compromise to build a complimentary set of players that can cover each others weaknesses. Squad building is a very tricky thing.
Murtough gets his admin assistant. A man that was at the mighty Liverpool... back when they were at their worst 
just choosing to ignore that he actually seems highly qualified for the job?Murtough gets his admin assistant. A man that was at the mighty Liverpool... back when they were at their worst
Squad building is very simple according to both Rangnick and Campos. And I agree.
Oohh look at murtoughs admin assistant, he's good at excel sheets wowww
Tbh personally I'm not a fan of a rigid transfer philosophy. Good players are extremely expensive commodities and your strategy has got to be flexible enough to accommodate them when they become available.
I'd say only Klopp & Guardiola have earned the right to be inflexible based on their success and even they're noway near as inflexible as people think. If Guardiola was joining City now many of you'd be on about how KDB is too careless with the ball for a Guardiola team - but that's quite obviously bollocks and Guardiola quite clearly finds a way to accommodate good players.
The key for me is finding good players for good value first. Load your squad up with them, and expect your coach to work it out. It's what Madrid do. As long as you're stacked full of talent in all 3 areas of the pitch, not particularly imbalanced you can make it work and a good coach should be able to maximise the potential in the team
I'd say only Klopp & Guardiola have earned the right to be inflexible based on their success and even they're noway near as inflexible as people think. If Guardiola was joining City now many of you'd be on about how KDB is too careless with the ball for a Guardiola team - but that's quite obviously bollocks and Guardiola quite clearly finds a way to accommodate good players.
The key for me is finding good players for good value first. Load your squad up with them, and expect your coach to work it out. It's what Madrid do. As long as you're stacked full of talent in all 3 areas of the pitch, not particularly imbalanced you can make it work and a good coach should be able to maximise the potential in the team
aw bless, im glad your mum and dad let you stay up so late.
Okay, I am surprised that clubs have relatively low success rates and patchy success generally with no guarantee given it is easy. All they need to do is get players with great technique, physique and mentality.
Thanks. That all makes sense.
I’d hazard a guess that some would have been absolutely fine at the intensity/physicality stuff if it had been expected of them from the start at United. I’m sure we haven’t gone out of our way to sign lazy players; it seems a lot more likely that they have ended up that way thanks to the generally casual and undemanding atmosphere.
Whether any of them are redeemable, or are all too far gone for that, remains to be seen.
You're looking at things with a very narrow lens imo.
The criteria put forth is 3 conditions, which entail a broad spectrum of characteristics/attributes which fall into each category or condition. And if you already have a vision in your mind on how you want your team to play, then it's not difficult to find players for said vision/play-style.
Of course data analysis will play it's part, but if one doesn't have a criteria/guiding principle to follow, then you end up looking for a needle in the haystack, like Rangnick mentioned only recently. The Liverpool recruitment team under Rodgers was widely ridiculed but has excelled under Klopp.
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I hope you're right mate, we could do with several of the existing players to come good under ten Hag.
Not seen an explanation there about why Lee Grant retiring is evidence of things moving quickly. Or Lingard leaving by choice for nothing instead of being sold in the summer or January is evidence of things moving quickly. Or Lense and Arnas leaving as intended who only joined because we took so long to get a permanent manager. Just in relation to this thread, Murtough has been football Director for 15 months and is only just getting a Deputy, not the quickest.
I don’t know why people get so sensitive about people who just don’t lap everything up. Notice I said the club moves slowly, not Woodward or Murtough. Maybe you got confused but they’re not the club, and if you look at last ten years and think we don’t move slowly then good luck to you.
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Oh I’m not holding my breath. I’ve a feeling that the players who have the required intensity (Dalot, for example) are terminally deficient in other areas.
Well then, players that tick all those boxes are expensive / star players. Also, who doesn't want an aggressive/physical, technical, and mentally strong player? That's kinda a bit pointless criteria, don't you think?
I'm hoping the Club has a plan like Bayern has. So whoever they plug in as a manager, there's a continuation of the play style (thus type of players they're scouting). It allows the Club to pursue a player, regardless of who the manager is. Just like Bayern has been tapping/pursuing Lewandowski for years. With us, you can see we're waiting for new manager to come in before purchasing new player. All we've done so far is "giving time" for manager to have the squad "of his own players". That is leading to this mishmash of team.
If yes, who could be in charge of this?
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The criteria fits many players in France, Germany and elsewhere, and the players don't necessarily have to be expensive either.
Konate at Liverpool is just one of many examples that fit the criteria of a CB that ticked all boxes when he was at Leipzig, but we opted for Maguire instead. I can do the same for fullbacks and other positions in our team where we end up signing inferior players for much more than our competition.
That's ten Hag talk..
The BTEC Jay SpearingOur new no.6
I know but it’s exactly what Ralf has said. No biggie but can’t help think we love to spin what the fanbase like to hear.
Translation: no more mid-table quality scrubs like Wan Bissaka, Maguire and McTominay.
I'd say the criteria is such a broad lens it's essentially meaningless. What team in the world would refuse a player that matches it? That criteria is surely nothing to do with style or managers, everyone wants players good at everything.
Fact is, most of them ain't and it's the analysis that is important. We can all say X player is technical, lightening fast and has three lungs and is a great chap..until he's been here two years and he's evidently not what we thought. That's why it's a difficult job contrary to what you're saying, the judgment is by far the hardest bit as there are so many things that are difficult to predict. Especially as you start to recruit with a riskier profile of signing which many are advocating for to get better "value"
I dunno, I just don't find anything useful or informative in that tweet and to compare our players against it as if we didn't have some idea that being technical, physical or a good egg might be important seems facile. I think it would be obvious that the judgment failed rather than knowledge that those things are pretty good. It reads like a prompt for an FM player rather than legitimate club information.
Can you then tell me why the club signed the likes of Wan Bissaka and Maguire and what the plan was? Solskjaer said he wanted to press high like Jurgen before we made those signings. Do you think those players ticked boxes as far as helping Solskjaer press high in a high defensive line and play in the opponents half in a compact high-block?
I think we have to get the profile of player he wants and give him time to implement the style. It's not necessarily about the specific player he wants. Gradually over three or four windows you'll have a squad that resembles closer what ETH wants.
How are Mayorga and Court regarded? I know Liverpool went for Fallows/Hunter because of what they’d done at City and those two seem to have done a great job. What have Mayorga and Court done elsewhere? (they’ve not done much for United’s first team but that could be because of structural issues).
Wasn‘t Simon Wells OGS’s “personal scout”?
Mayorga was Head of scouting in South America and Spain for the club from what i've heard. The work below is of one of the United scouts (Gerardo Guzman) that worked under him in Spain.
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Mick Court was here under Fergie and was involved when we were winning titles and making champions league finals.
Evidently not. But that doesn't mean that they didn't know that being physically good, technical or good characters is useful so that's why I'm surprised we're impressed by this "new" criteria. Do we think that they said that AWB is crap at football, slow, and a total knob so let's buy him? These things have been known since football began, it's not as if it is incredible information found in a long, lost manual.
When the scouting fails that makes the best laid strategy look bad, and what you are referencing isn't even a strategy, they are literally pointless bullet points that look made up. I just don't think recruitment can be trivialised in this way or described as easy. Especially since it depends on the context. Ours is a strict budget, very strong rivals, and a scale of club where mistakes are exacerbated by the microscope placed on signings. We're not exactly trying to recreate RB Leipzig where a half decent German side and saleable assets is enough so I really don't think Ralf has a clue how easy it should be.
It's not a scouting failure but a strategic failure. It was clear to anyone who understood modern day football principles that Wan Bissaka wasn't good enough to play in a team that had aspirations of playing in the opponent's half. Because in a high defensive line the fullback's role is to primarily contribute in attack, both in the build up phase and final third, and Wan Bissaka was never comfortable in that type of approach.
Maguire's problem was that he would be required to defend a large space in such a approach and he has never been comfortable defending in such a way, so we ended up implementing a safety in numbers approach, whilst utilising the counter attack, low / mid-block against anyone half decent.
When the strategy is flawed to begin with, then the scouting isn't going to be much better. We don't need to look at RB Leipzig or even listen to what Rangnick is saying, because Liverpool and City's uniformed approach to recruitment should be more than enough to learn from. And they target players for a high tempo game style that fits into the vision of klopp and Guardiola.
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