No, I don’t think we should pay the full sum up front simply to get it done quickly. I do think it makes a lot more sense to make them a fair offer, give them a deadline and then move on if they take the piss. It’s clear they want him gone so surely that’d be the best way to handle the situation.
Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap
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They are tangoing. It’s obvious they want shot of him.
Just smile and wave boys, smile and waveROFLMAO
"He and his girlfriend just smiled"
Probably petrified to say something wrong and see him turn into some sort of serial killer.
His girlfriend probably told him later "That club has issues, stay away from those weirdos"
What we do know is Uniteds big signings are always drawn out in public and other clubs do a much better job of avoiding the circus, they don’t always avoid it but we never do and thats a problem. At United though Woodward welcomed and fuelled it. I hope this new regime goes the other way.
Bless you mate.
You seem to just be assuming lots of things. They are open to selling him but in no rush. It’s not deadline day it’s the opposite end of the window.
And who’s to say we aren’t? Unless you have inner workings of the deal, I am not sure what your complaint is, other than that the deal hasn’t been completed within the arbitrary deadline you have set based on your own expectations.
What a mentalist.
Great post. Should be sticked on every page, unbelievable how many people fail to realise that doing deals worth multiple millions is not the same as buying a fecking bag of potatoes from your local farmers' market.
In fairness, a number of big clubs have got deals over the line quickly including. So it's a fair question.
But where people's concern is really coming from is that there are no rumours about us working on other deals which is an issue for 2 reasons.
Firstly, if we are waiting for a €10mil drop on the FDJ deal to know who else we have the budget for then what does that say about our planning? Essentially that we can't plan until this is resolved. Which means time is critical. Potentially more important than saving €10mil.
Secondly, it implies every deal we make will be happening one after the other rather than at the same time. Meaning if everything takes this long we won't have players in place for Ten Hag to be working with when of all the managers in the Premier League he needs time to put his methods across most. How many times are we going to sacrifice a good start for short term savings. Its a false economy if it means we don't get CL for example. And what happens if Barca don't drop their stance? Have talks been taking place with a plan B so this isn't wasted time? Is there even a plan B?
Van Der Kraan is ETH's buddy. So this is as reliable as it will get.
If Eriksen is crucial who does he play instead of, assuming VDB is also likely to get more minutes?
1. Rumours are not the basis for any informed analysis.
2. The asking price for FDJ is entirely determined by the selling club and something we have no control over. What that price is, and how the deal is structured, has implications for all other transfer deals.
3. Players don’t have a set price set by an independent body, or a “buy it now” button where total value and payment structure is clearly defined and around which advanced strategic planning can be made, unless they have a release clause.
Almost all the arguments and debates in this thread about how to manage the deal, sign other players, and how fast it should be done is based on ignorance. Ignorance of the reality of business economics, ignorance of capital management, ignorance of corporate negotiations, and most importantly ignorance of the actual deal points being discussed. Because none of us know that.
I am pretty much checking out of this debate now because people are just doubling down on the same tired tropes and wilful avoidance of complicated reality of such negotiations. I don’t really have anything else to say because like everyone else, I have no idea what is actually happening behind closed doors and am entirely reliant on press speculation. Which is exactly what it says on the tin. Speculation.
I've always been kind of mystified as to how these things drag on for weeks and months, even if it makes sense with the money involved. The idea of Murtough working 14 hour days ringing barcelona every 5 mins saying 'will you lower your price now?' was a bit absurd but i couldn't really figure out what else he'd be doing. Thanks for spelling it out, it seems kind of obvious now but ... yeah.
According to the Catalan journalists Silva's wages WILL be lower than FDJ's.
City don't need to sell Silva but he's wanted to leave since last year so it's a case of respecting his wish.
All fair points. But in the absense of factual information we can only go on how we have previously done things. Which is dragged out delayed signings where we have ultimately ended up paying pretty much close to the original price anyway. And a failure to be working on more than one at the same time leading to slow starts where players haven't been bedded in.
So whilst you can know more about inside business deals and patronise people here those are the facts and people are legitimately worried that nothing has changed despite the clubs PR machine saying different.
And on Point 2, the price may be set by the selling club but it is influenced by the buyer. Otherwise what is the point in negotiations? Anyway, even if United can't control the price, they can accept it if the player is so critical to Ten Hag as has been reported. Pep was backed unconditionally by City when he joined.
How do teams complete deals on deadline day in a matter of minutes if all that is true? In some instances they only register their first interest in the player on the very same day!
How are you doing tonight, Mr. Murtough. Kidding, obviously - great post. It's never as straight forward as it seems, unless you are a club with literally no cash limit.
Bingo.
Also not the only person on the forum who has been involved in large business deals
How many huge deadline day deals do we ever see
Please put some respect on Marouane Fellaini's name, sir.How many huge deadline day deals do we ever see
A lot of that is done after the market closes as long as an agreement is signed before.
Hahaha! Well played.
There’s been one, just one, signing over 50m pounds since the transfer window started.
Its unrealistic to do very large deals on deadline day, deals where the fee is low or loans yes.
Large deals do take time that cannot be questioned.
That doesnt mean United do deals efficiently or that they do not unnecessarily drag them out in the media
Simon's post was such a flex.
He dropped the knowledge, but he slipped in closing that seven million deal too.
Simon's post was such a flex.
He dropped the knowledge, but he slipped in closing that seven million deal too.
How long has this dragged on though, since when did actual negotiation commence?
Pep was backed unconditionally? City just bought whoever he wanted at the initial asking price without negotiation, did they?
You can't compare corporate transactions with football transfers. The finer details of such a football contracts are piece of cake compared to due diligences and negociations of disclosure and warranties provisions involved in big corporate deals. Contracts for the transfer of football players are actually fairly short.
Now financing might take a little longer but considering that United is a pretty wealthy club, I highly doubt it takes that long to unlock. The "complicated factors" your mention aren't that complicated for the law firms representing big clubs, it's pretty much always the same with few variations, they're not drafting every contrat from scratch for each transfer.
I've worked on both, we closed a 30M transfer of a football player within 4 days (and we do that occasionnally, we only have 3 clients who are football agents and that was the most valuable player they had) when it took us 2 months for a 30M company. You're basically selling 1 (very valuable) asset as opposed to several thousands for big companies.
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Would be interesting to hear your insights on it if you're allowed to share them.
Could and should are two different things.
Ten Hag: Get me the unicorn! Glazers: Here are two donkeys and an ox.
As long as I don't give details about the clients in question that's fine. No way for you guys to know who I'm talking about especially since it could be anywhere in europe.
From a general standpoint, I don't think that the "details" or the legal aspects cause an issue. It's also unlikely United can't finance the deal. So I'd assume there's still disagreements about major elements of negociation. Simonhch is right though, could be the overall price, the number of instalments (3 instalments is pretty standard but Barcelona might want less than that if they need liquidities right now) bonuses etc.
From what I've witnessed, the deal is usually leaked by the press before the "details" are even sorted out because it's rarely what stop the deals.
You’re making that analysis from a completely different comparative basis than what I was using. Yes, you’ll get no debate from me regarding the comparative complexities of a corporate deal versus the intricacies of a football transfer. However, not only are there shared complexities, but my basis of comparison was versus the perceived simplicity of people’s perceptions of how easy it is to close a transfer on the transfer forum. In that example I was pushing back against the incredulity people we’re expressing for it taking “a few days” to structure another offer.
Many people have then come back saying “how do you explain deadline deals???”, “it can be done in hours if you really want!”. And again, my response is that just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should be done. Deadline day deals rarely represent an example of joined up thinking, or judicious deal making.
Of course it's not simple, but I also don't think that it should take more than a couple of days to structure another offer unless it's completely different from the 1st one. And if that's the case, it would mean that United and Barcelona are still very far from reaching an agreement.
Ten Hag recognising that we need two midfielders (at least) before anything else is very encouraging. Our biggest issue is and has been the fact that we lose the midfield battle against the vast majority of the teams we play against
Alongside FDJ and Fred possibly in a 3 man midfield. Bruno off the left, Sancho on the RW.
VDB should be back up of Eriksen I guess
I can absolutely see the patronising tone in my posts, it’s not entirely unintentional, but I have also included a great deal of specificity in where that is targeted. It’s not a general sense of superiority, me saying other people don’t have more experience than me, or me saying I am a defining source of business acumen. Far from it. My responses were specifically targeted towards one line of thinking encapsulating incredulity at a report of a “few days”, and a clear absence of any knowledgeable grounding for those strongly vindicated statements.
I don’t disagree that there has been a great amount of dithering and missteps in our transfer dealings and strategy over the last decades. I have been and remain a huge critic of it. I am also quite precise in that criticism. What I was debating was uninformed, emotional nonsense regarding specifics of this deal, that is routinely used a source of complaint in these forums. My debate of that has no bearing on my criticisms of the clubs larger strategy. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
Again, my points were precise to the topic. Not a general partisan position on whether the club is good or bad at dealing with transfers. Unfortunately, these days we always seem to have to make sweeping categorisations of people into one bucket or another, rather than focus on the logic of individual arguments. And only the Sith talk in absolutes.
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