So a 3 days from delivering a baby and 1 week after pregnancy is no different? I find such stances as extreme as a ban on abortion. Yeah the baby is not legally as such but that is the point of the whole debate
Abortion
- Thread starter Pagh Wraith
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I can’t tell you how much I like this post and respect your ability to personally believe something but not project it on others. Good man.
For the record this thread is about abortion not the Roe vs Wade ruling so can't speak for other posters but I don't think anyone except for one drunk person on here was happy about that.
This. It’s baffling that he cannot understand that everything he said is EXACTLY why the woman should be able to choose. Blanket bans on abortion are stupid on so many levels.
I'm sorry to hear that mate but I understand the reaction now that I know where you're coming from. An ex of mine was abused in childhood (she confided in me and still hasn't told her family) so I have some understanding of how traumatic it can be.
All I have right now is a mental image of an Austin Powers-esque airline flying penises into the sky over the US
I get that but clearly the whole debate right now is framed on the context of that ruling.
If Jehovah Witness parents can refuse blood transfusions for their children, why wouldn't couldn't a rape victim refuse NICU, its the same concept. Until the mother gives up the baby, she has parental rights.
Well, its 30 weeks before a 99% survival rate, so why not abortions up until them, then induction until 40 weeks? Or, the youngest ever premature baby was at 21 weeks, so abortions up until then and then inductions after?
My partner had to make the same choice at 18 and both kept the child and completed her University education. That was not easy. He is now a Doctor.
She has also had an abortion and is haunted by it. She is also a children & families social worker.
She is utterly pro choice. Not that it matters. It simply isn't your choice, or mine and the circumstances are different each time. It is the individual woman's decision and choice and should be allowed to be.
Factually, a baby does not exist until it is born. That is the definition of a baby. That doesn’t mean it isn’t viable. But legally and by definition, it is not a baby until it’s born.
Thanks. To me it’s so clear. But I guess the propaganda about abortion has blurred what this issue is about. Which is not what we think of abortion, but who should be making the choice.Just hang your bits over the border wall and shag there. Her head doesn't have to be in America for her womb to be!
Well it sort of got dragged towards a term limit. BTW, I do and don't get your logic of "its not for me so I wont do it but wont control others". I feel that way about a certain term where I personally am against it and goes against what I believe but I would never want a state to force that belief on others just as I wouldn't want others belief forced on me.
But as I said I think there should be a limit that barring medical issues or very, very extreme circumstances beyond 25 or so weeks it shouldn't be allowed. To me that is a baby that would survive outside a womb and the fact you have to administer lethal injection says a lot.
Thing is I don't feel too strongly about it because I get the complication of it. I think my tone would change every week after the thresh hold. At some point during the 30 something week I really don't think I would see it as "your choice, I wont force my beliefs on you" because to me that's just messed up.
Anyway, I don't know the answers. Just feel there should be a term limit or something in the 20 something week.
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Completely off on a tangent here but there are series of checks and balances for everything in life apart from becoming a parent, or refusing to become one.
Personally believe there should a licence to have a child. Some people really really shouldnt be parents.
Personally believe there should a licence to have a child. Some people really really shouldnt be parents.
That's the legal definition. I'm asking, as humans do we really not see the difference between the 1st week and the 38th week? Just because there are no legal papers, it doesn't change biology.
Exactly.
My family is pretty messed up tbh, none of us really talk at all anymore. When we meet for family gatherings its always tension filled and awkward.
As my mother was dealing with demons I too then had my own abuse to deal with in childhood, I was pretty badly physically abused.
There's far more to this situation than just abortion, there is a whole domino effect that comes with it too.
I do not imagine that experiment ending well
But I’ll ask the question again - what gives you or anyone the right to ban it after your view of what is an acceptable time limit?
I’d be very interested to know how many, of all abortions, are voluntarily terminated after 5 months.
My word, I’m sure you’ve made this post innocently but just think through the potential consequences of this and hopefully you’ll see why this is quite possibly a bad an idea as banning abortions.
Absolutely. There needs to be emotional & mental (& potentially fiscal) means testing before someone / a couple can have a child.
Nah mate, this is bollocks. Elaborating on my post above, in a (your) country which does everything it can to suppress voting rights of a certain demographic, what do you think would happen in this scenario exactly?
It didn't. But we did get definitions for the words "stupid", "idiot" and "moron"
That question doesn't hold much weight. What gives you the right to decide there should be child abuse laws, what gives you the right to support animal abuse laws? We can't look at everything as it just doesn't impact me so I don't care.
The question is if abortion is or isn't killing a being with life. If it is then we all have a say and if it isn't we don't.
Well, children and animals are (definitely) alive and all…
I totally get where he's coming from.
You've any number of reasons why some people shouldn't be parents.
FFS, here in Ireland you have to pay a license to have a TV!! Yet any old scumbag, junkie, abusive psycho can have a child.
100%, I understand why the theory of it makes complete sense. But practically, it’d be impossible to administer and it’d, in my view, end in a worse position.
Well, yeah the question would be how would you go about stopping them? That's a whole unethical totalitarian can of worms.
No amount of intelligence and psychology testing could ever tell you if someone will be a good parent. And that doesn't even include postnatal depression.
Oh I totally get that its not practical at all and pretty much impossible to roll out.
It's just incredibly sad seeing a child stuck with a parent or parents who are not fit to raise them for any number of reasons.
I have family who have had and have careers in child protection services of various sorts. When i speak to them and all the hardships they see children go through, they are in favour of such an approach. Its beyond heartbreaking some of the stuff you hear and at times makes you very angry that children should have to suffer. Anyway its off on a separate tangent and i dont want to derail the thread. Again its my own opinion.
Fair enough. I ardently feel that some level of competence needs to be determined before someone / two people can have a child, but I could easily see your scenario happening.
It’s inevitably an one way ticket to eugenics.
What’s terrible is that we will have to christen a ‘Gay Rights’ thread here soon, that issue is undoubtedly next on this ‘loss of rights’ bingo card.
Fair enough, I can see that.
This is happening already with the reversal of RoeVWade.
Few pages back two links were posted that it suggests its to increase white (Caucasian) birth rates.
I don't think anti gay is that big of an issue as anti abortion. Even among most republicans I would say gay marriage is an established right.
Like I said above, I completely understand, and agree with, the theory. But the practicality of implementing it is just impossible in a fair and civilised state. And worse than impossible in a place like the US where you can envisage something stupid like “immigrants don’t have the right to bear a child” kind of nonsense, and even worse. And would end up being the poorest who, again, would suffer the most.
Oh… how wrong this post could prove to be.
Today is the seventh anniversary of gay marriage being legal. We just saw a 50 year old right vanish on Friday. Texas just came out with an anti-gay political platform, one I could see others do. I can completely see same sex marriage legality be gone in the next five years.