Juni Calafat is a God!
Is Casemiro the best holding midfielder of all time?
- Thread starter AdNani
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Not even close, excellent player but playing with Kroos and Modric is easy.
Mauro Silva, is still the best Brazilian holding midfielder I’ve seen.
Mauro Silva, is still the best Brazilian holding midfielder I’ve seen.
The best holding midfielder that you've seen, maybe.
Rijkaard wasn't ... though probably could have, guy was a god.
Redondo is surely better.
Not sure he's even top 3 all time for R. Madrid or top 10 all time in general.
He's not even a holding midfielder. The quality that sets Casemiro apart is that he sits deep when Madrid don't have the ball and then he runs past Kroos / Modric when Madrid do have the ball to help the attack thus letting them two distribute from deep.
That relentless energy is what has made him world class - but it doesn't make him the best holding midfielder ever. That's still Makelele, followed very very closely by Busquets.
That relentless energy is what has made him world class - but it doesn't make him the best holding midfielder ever. That's still Makelele, followed very very closely by Busquets.
Busquets
This by a country mile!
I'd have Dunga, but it's close.
Matthaus, Rijkaard, Neeskens, Paulo Falcao, Redondo, Dunga, Deschamps, Makalele, Clodoaldo.
Take your pick.
Take your pick.
That made me think about op again.
I've had a few (on holiday) and was thinking he was saying best Madrid DM.
That made me realise (should have seen it before), he meant best DM ever. Lolz
(Davids too?)
Strange timing for the thread given he's been fairly average for the past year or so. And no, he's not been as good as Busquets. Let alone the best of all time.
He's nowhere near it.
Top 10, 15 should be it.
That's pretty much my assessment about every single one of their current midfield trio(kroos,modric,casemiro) none of them is going to top the chart in their respective position but together thy have a claim to be the very best(i assume the consensus is the barca midfield and I think they're pretty close).
That's pretty much my assessment about every single one of their current midfield trio(kroos,modric,casemiro) none of them is going to top the chart in their respective position but together thy have a claim to be the very best(i assume the consensus is the barca midfield and I think they're pretty close).
The difference between him and others like Kante and Makelele is his influence in both boxes.
How many goals did he create by winning headers, and how many key headers has he won in his own box? In big games too.
Kante and Makelele were short so they cannot affect those key aspects of the game. Just my two cents.
How many goals did he create by winning headers, and how many key headers has he won in his own box? In big games too.
Kante and Makelele were short so they cannot affect those key aspects of the game. Just my two cents.
No
You're going by CL wins aren't you? I get it now.
Would agree with this. Defensively impeccable and had a great understated short game on the ball. They’ve had a few fine ones over the years - Zito, Clodoaldo, Mauro, Dunga, Fernandinho. All tidy on the ball and solid and astute off it. No problem putting Casemiro in that group but I don’t think he stands ahead.
Beyond Brazil and South America (where Redondo jumps out and had a much more expansive game than Casemiro) it becomes a question of definition. European midfielders tended to play box-to-box whereas South Americans had more distinctive midfield roles separating the holding 6 and the attacking 8. If we were to include the best European midfielders who had the main defensive responsibility in their midfield and sat at the base at least some of the time then there’s a case to put Rijkaard, Desailly, Souness, Mackay, Busquets and Voronin ahead. Of them Rijkaard the gold standard in being tactically brilliant, technically outstanding and physically imposing. He was a box-to-box but with his skillset and having played to an elite level at centre-half and in different midfield roles, it’s hard to envisage anyone better for the holding role in a modern 433.
Souness too
Busquets, Makelele and Kante (if he counts) ahead of anyone else I’ve seen. Casemiro is good, but not really close
Over the likes of Makele, Keane and Vieira, defo not
Yes of course
Most successful? Yeah maybe. Best? No chance. Think Busquets for example defined how this role is played in the modern game
Fecking of course not.
But seriously, no he's not the best ever, but he's an all time great
Also he has some kind of superpower that allows him to avoid ree cards no matter what he does. I think that's my favourite thing about him
And before you say "oh it's a real madrid thing" it's really not. Any other of our players usually do get a red card when they do any of the things he does constantly
Also he has some kind of superpower that allows him to avoid ree cards no matter what he does. I think that's my favourite thing about him
And before you say "oh it's a real madrid thing" it's really not. Any other of our players usually do get a red card when they do any of the things he does constantly
Nah not even the most successful playing in Spain right now
5cl....3la liga... 1 Spanish cup and a Copa America
Busquets has 3cl, 8la liga, 8 Spanish cups, 1 euros and a world cup
2extra cl Vs 5 leagues 7 Spanish cups and a world cup
A lot of shouts for Busquets. He is nowhere near Casemiro, who is also quite far off Makelele.
Busquets was always the weakest link in the Barça team; in the successful era there wasn’t a lot of holding to do, and the opposing team had a fair amount of joy on their rare attacks.
Barça played a lot of possession football, and Busquets passing was usually short, either back to Pique / Puyol, or sideways to Iniesta / Xavi, who did the transitional passes forward.
In the less successful teams, he’s looked out of sorts and still not close to being mentioned in the best players in the team.
This is not to say he was (or is) bad, and he played an important role in their success, but he should not be mentioned in conversations about the best DMs in the world. Very lucky to have been where he was.
Busquets was always the weakest link in the Barça team; in the successful era there wasn’t a lot of holding to do, and the opposing team had a fair amount of joy on their rare attacks.
Barça played a lot of possession football, and Busquets passing was usually short, either back to Pique / Puyol, or sideways to Iniesta / Xavi, who did the transitional passes forward.
In the less successful teams, he’s looked out of sorts and still not close to being mentioned in the best players in the team.
This is not to say he was (or is) bad, and he played an important role in their success, but he should not be mentioned in conversations about the best DMs in the world. Very lucky to have been where he was.
Offensive thread title.
I think he's better than Makele, whose contribution seems to be that people now raise question marks on whether the likes of Rijkaard and Matthaus were holding midfielders because they were great on the ball.
Maybe also better than redondo whose legend just seems to grow every year for some reason.
Not better than Rijkaard, Matthaus, Vieira, Souness, Busquets, Keane, Davids, Desailly.
The question is whether he is better than Alonso.
Maybe also better than redondo whose legend just seems to grow every year for some reason.
Not better than Rijkaard, Matthaus, Vieira, Souness, Busquets, Keane, Davids, Desailly.
The question is whether he is better than Alonso.
It's a Brazilian midfielder thing. Fabinho, Lucas Leiva, Fernandinho. They are all at it.And before you say "oh it's a real madrid thing" it's really not. Any other of our players usually do get a red card when they do any of the things he does constantly
Quite a hot take this.
History will be a lot kinder to him in these sorts of comparisons when he’s retired, as always. Like someone mentioned in the first page, a quick look at his honours list is pretty incredible.
Fred didn't get the memo
He's no Frank Rijkaard.
Seeing every good players coming to us and turning into crap, I start to believe there is no way to objectively say best in a particular role. Get him over here and play holding midfield for us. And if he can perform the same playing behind Kroos and Modric as with Kamikaze Fernandez and Mc/Fred then I'll say there is merit to what you are saying.
no
He's good but not even close to being top 10 let alone being the best ever
That seems a bit harsh on the other hand
Since everyone has categorically voted no, I'm interested as to why the OP voted yes? @AdNani
CL rings Erneh
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