Thanks for providing a prime example of what I'm talking about.Tuchel on Ralf: He [Rangnick] was my coach as a player, and he guided us. He opened, really, [our] eyes for us because we believed at that time in Germany that defenders run behind the strikers,' Tuchel said.
'No matter where they go. They go to the toilet, you follow them! From that moment, it changed how I watched football games. He (Rangnick) opened the door.
'At some point, you have to go through the door and you are responsible to make the very best of opportunities for yourself.
'This is what I did, because I had people like Ralf who supported me, and so many more, starting with my father and everybody on the way from there in my life, which was then closely connected all the time to football. That's why I'm a lucky and a blessed person and happy and grateful for where I am.'
A guy universally praised by the best German coaches as helping them understand the modern way to coach. But yea it's all his PR, I'm sure they paid off Tuchel to say that.
No one is arguing he was fit to manage the team though? The consensus (that I agree with personally) is that it was fecking crazy to hire him on a short term coaching contract with a longer-term executive contract, then deem him unsuitable for the latter because he failed at the former when it should be blatantly clear these are two very different skillsets.Thanks for providing a prime example of what I'm talking about.
Tuchel recounting a complimenting anecdote from his playing days, in the fecking mid 90s, at third division club SSV Ulm, of how Rangnick indroduced the idea of zonal marking to them.
And that makes Rangnick fit to manage Manchester United in 2021 exactly how?
Completely mythified, just as I said.
Do us a favour and go discuss with the nearest wall. I think you'll find plenty of common ground in your ability to understand the simple points being made here.Not this absolute nonsense again.
Seriously this building up of Wreck-It to be some kind of Messiah or Saviour of United is getting past a joke. Everybody is just throwing around these vague statements of what he is supposed to have achieved with no real tangible evidence. They talk about him as if he was some kind of Sensei to Klopp, Tuchel, Nagelsmann etc. It's embarrassing.Why? Not one person has said Ralf was a success as interim. The thread has been brought to life becuase his experience in building clubs is more than every single person at the club put together. You don't think that could of been useful?
If you actually listened to what people are saying instead of going off on your own tangent these threads would become better places to be. No real tangible evidence of what he's supposed to have achieved at Leipzig? You just have to be wumming at this point.Seriously this building up of Wreck-It to be some kind of Messiah or Saviour of United is getting past a joke. Everybody is just throwing around these vague statements of what he is supposed to have achieved with no real tangible evidence. They talk about him as if he was some kind of Sensei to Klopp, Tuchel, Nagelsmann etc. It's embarrassing.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-managerI have no idea why so many people believe we hired RR to be our CEO or something!
He was hired as an interim manager, nothing else. And he completely failed as a manager, he was worse than Ole and Moyes. He was actively contributing to our problems by blaming the players to the press, something pointless that solves zero problems.
I even saw postings about Austria, after one win. It is completely irrelevant what RR did in Germany or Austria, because he has already worked for us and he was a complete failure. It does not matter what he does or doesn't do with another team, we are not going to hire him ever again. End of the story.
Yeah you couldn't be more wrong here mate.Manchester United is delighted to announce the appointment of Ralf Rangnick as interim manager until the end of the season, subject to work visa requirements.
Following this period, Ralf and the club have agreed that he will continue in a consultancy role for a further two years.
John Murtough, Manchester United football director, said: “Ralf is one of the most respected coaches and innovators in European football. He was our number one candidate for interim manager, reflecting the invaluable leadership and technical skills he will bring from almost four decades of experience in management and coaching.
“Everyone at the club is looking forward to working with him during the season ahead, and then for a further two years in his advisory role.”
So you'd prefer to have John Murtough who has no experience as DoF as opposed to Rangnick? Absolutely bizarre if true.Seriously this building up of Wreck-It to be some kind of Messiah or Saviour of United is getting past a joke. Everybody is just throwing around these vague statements of what he is supposed to have achieved with no real tangible evidence. They talk about him as if he was some kind of Sensei to Klopp, Tuchel, Nagelsmann etc. It's embarrassing.
Following the interim manager job he might have another post as a consultant. It was never going to be because he was useless and he was fired. He was never a consultant for us.https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-manager
Yeah you couldn't be more wrong here mate.
What are you talking about "might"? This was literally the press release after getting him. He signed a deal to move further up into the management structure from day 1. And if it was "never going to be" then Man United are unimaginably stupid to hire someone with very limited recent experience as a first team coach to fill that role, whilst also tacking on additional liability vis a vis an entirely separate role.Following the interim manager job he might have another post as a consultant. It was never going to be because he was too useless and he was fired.
And for your information, a consultant in football is nothing. You create reports that perhaps someone may read. You have ZERO power to implement anything. It nothing, zero, nada. Do you know who is "consultant" for Liverpool? Do you care? I don't. Nobody cares.
Where did I say that? And exactly what are you basing Rangnick's experience on? I want tangible, factual evidence rather than tenuous links and embellished anecdotes from 20 years ago.So you'd prefer to have John Murtough who has no experience as DoF as opposed to Rangnick? Absolutely bizarre if true.
Again, I just don't understand how people can argue in good faith that because someone is bad at job A that means automatically that they are bad at job B. Very odd mentality.
He might have been useless as a coach, still no reason to get rid of him as a consultant. And was he actually fired? Thought his contract as a coach was done, he had some hope of getting a permanent gig but the club was pretty quick to deny that and going for ETH. ETH and Ralf then had a talk and because ETH didn't have the intention of making any meaningful use of RR, he accepted the Austria coach. I actually think, this whole act was pretty clean, without too much struggle, don't know, why some people are fired up about the guy. He obviously knows his stuff in terms of building a team and eyeing up talent. If not for stupid money, someone in our situation would have been a fool not to at least listen to what he had to say. Consultant means no negative impact if not following advice.Following the interim manager job he might have another post as a consultant. It was never going to be because he was useless and he was fired. He was never a consultant for us.
And for your information, a consultant in football is nothing. You create reports that perhaps someone may read. You have ZERO power to implement anything. It is nothing, zero, nada. Do you know who is "consultant" for Liverpool? Do you care? I don't. Nobody cares.
He literally was the director of football that at the same time took RB Leipzig from the 4th tier to being a consistent CL side in Germany whilst also making Salzburg into one of the best talent farms in all of Europe?Where did I say that? And exactly what are you basing Rangnick's experience on? I want tangible, factual evidence rather than tenuous links and embellished anecdotes from 20 years ago.
For the millionth time, no one thinks he's a great manager. This post isn't the checkmate argument you seem to think it is.By the way, from reading this forum I thought he was doing great with Austria. I just looked it up and he has 1 win, 1 draw, 2 loses!
And yes he is a manager with Austria. Not CEO, not consultant, not President. He is a manager. Nothing else. He is a failed manager.
Had a talk, like what? "-hi how are you? -fine, thank you - good bye and good luck".He might have been useless as a coach, still no reason to get rid of him as a consultant. And was he actually fired? Thought his contract as a coach was done, he had some hope of getting a permanent gig but the club was pretty quick to deny that and going for ETH. ETH and Ralf then had a talk and because ETH didn't have the intention of making any meaningful use of RR, he accepted the Austria coach. I actually think, this whole act was pretty clean, without too much struggle, don't know, why some people are fired up about the guy. He obviously knows his stuff in terms of building a team and eyeing up talent. If not for stupid money, someone in our situation would have been a fool not to at least listen to what he had to say. Consultant means no negative impact if not following advice.
Players quit on him.Except for his actual job of managing the team.
fecking hell, it is blatantly obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Imagine actually advocating for an echo chamber.Had a talk, like what? "-hi how are you? -fine, thank you - good bye and good luck".
Do you think that LVG had a talk with Moyes? Do you think that Mourinho had a talk with LVG? Do you think that Klopp had a talk with Rodgers? Does it matter? Who gives a fart what the previous manager thought? Nobody cares.
The guy was useless. He was fired. He was send away. Nobody needs his opinions. It is more useful to get Moyes as a consultant, he knows more about the PL. Do you want Moyes advising ETH? The whole thing is absurd!!!
He wouldn't be kept either way. No manager would want an external "consultant" criticizing him from the outside, especially not one who criticizes players to the press. The whole thing is meaningless. It was just some extra money for him, in case he wasn't able to find another job (he is not young any more).Wasn't the whole consultancy thing that everyone is arguing about only offered as a sweetener because RR was reluctant to take the interim job and lose out on his remaining 2.5 year contract in Moscow?
Then as things started going sideways on the pitch his consultancy was brought up more and more as his "Main" job and the managerial stint was just to prepare him for his new role upstairs?
All of which was pure fantasy?
I think United had no real long term (Surprise) plan other than get him in, reap all the good PR from the Move (Godfather of Pressing/ Mentor to the stars etc) and then focus on getting EtH( or poch or whoever) in eventually.
If his reign as Manager hadn't had gone so badly he probably would have been kept on(as a consultant) but I doubt they would listen to him anyway (Plus it seems like EtH was ok with his departure).
You seem to be openly advocating for the first team coach and DoF roles to be combined, which is ridiculous because no top club does this currently. If ETH is so thin-skinned and/or stubborn that recommendations from those who are better-informed cause an issue, that doesn't really bode well does it?He wouldn't be kept either way. No manager would want an external "consultant" criticizing him from the outside, especially not one who criticizes players to the press. The whole thing is meaningless. It was just some extra money for him, in case he wasn't able to find another job (he is not young any more).
How old are you mate, you sound very immature. Everybody would tell you, that it makes absolute sense to talk with your predecessor about the job. Doesn't mean you have to follow his advice or anything but why wouldn't you get some insights if they are offered to you? Additionally, don't think, many understood the consultancy role to be for ETH. Eth was intended to be head coach and the consultancy part would have been applied to one level above, DOF, directors, anything. To people which evidently should take every help they can get a grab on.Had a talk, like what? "-hi how are you? -fine, thank you - good bye and good luck".
Do you think that LVG had a talk with Moyes? Do you think that Mourinho had a talk with LVG? Do you think that Klopp had a talk with Rodgers? Does it matter? Who gives a fart what the previous manager thought? Nobody cares.
The guy was useless. He was fired. He was send away. Nobody needs his opinions. It is more useful to get Moyes as a consultant, he knows more about the PL. Do you want Moyes advising ETH? The whole thing is absurd!!!
The manager wouldn't even have a say in that. The manager is there to fulfill a role. If there are consultants evaluating his performance for the higher ups, that nothing the manager can do anything about.He wouldn't be kept either way. No manager would want an external "consultant" criticizing him from the outside, especially not one who criticizes players to the press. The whole thing is meaningless. It was just some extra money for him, in case he wasn't able to find another job (he is not young any more).
I agree, I think the original plan was to move him into the office and be a consultant to ETH/Poch. They didn't expect him to lose the dressing room at the end and the PR turned sour (Athletic pushed out the articles of him being overwhelmed by the intensity of the league, Armas talking to some guy in Russia watching on a laptop, etc), and then discovered that ETH wasn't that hot on the idea anyways.I think United had no real long term (Surprise) plan other than get him in, reap all the good PR from the Move (Godfather of Pressing/ Mentor to the stars etc) and then focus on getting EtH( or poch or whoever) in eventually.
If his reign as Manager hadn't had gone so badly he probably would have been kept on(as a consultant) but I doubt they would listen to him anyway (Plus it seems like EtH was ok with his departure).
We also went from 2nd in 17-18 to 6th in 18-19 and that had feck all to do with the amount of fans in the stadium either.that doesn't explain how we went from 2nd to absolutely nowhere. that explains arriving at nowhere
That's a ridiculous statement to be fair. He was hired as a manager with the goal of getting our season back on track. Not only did we get worse he presided over arguably the worst run of results for any United manager post Busby.He was here for 6 months, called out all the problems at the club, was sacked for it and has since been proven right. He has nothing, whatsoever, to do with the mess we are in.
Says who exactly?So at what point did the players buy into Rangnick as coach and try and play for him?
And he wasn't hired for his management skills, he was hired for his club building skills, that was his role, starting with an interim management position, but the real value was always in the his knowledge beyond management.
Your argument seems to be predicated on the notion that Manchester United are currently a rational actor when plainly they are not.Says who exactly?
The only statement form the club was that he would take up a vague consultancy role after his stint as Interim yet he took on another job while still manager here and left completely shortly after the last game.
So United aren't a rational actor but hatched this logical long term plan to hire Ralf Rangnick to help rebuild the club after a brief stint as manager that would allow him to assess the squad up close?Your argument seems to be predicated on the notion that Manchester United are currently a rational actor when plainly they are not.
It's blatantly obvious he was hired as a short term manager with the hopes that could finish top 4 but if not he'd have at the bare minimum a very good sense of the squad and their pros/cons so as to inform transfer dealings. Surely you can understand how someone with a perspective as a coach would be a valuable tool for any hierarchy making personnel decisions?
Right now his job is manager of Austria, right? He is not a CEO or consultant. He is a manager. People may imagine that he is something else, but he accepts jobs as a manager, so obviously he believes he is a capable manager or else he would seek a different position.For the millionth time, no one thinks he's a great manager. This post isn't the checkmate argument you seem to think it is.
www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/man-utd-official-statement-to-confirm-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-managerI have no idea why so many people believe we hired RR to be our CEO or something!
He was hired as an interim manager, nothing else.
The manager is the most important job in a club. He talks to the owners all the time. If someone in the club interferes with his job, or if the manager wants to get rid of someone, then he can do it, or the owners will do it for him (or he will be sacked instead).The manager wouldn't even have a say in that. The manager is there to fulfill a role. If there are consultants evaluating his performance for the higher ups, that nothing the manager can do anything about.
Obviously they didn't mean it. This is just a meaningless PR statement. Do you always believe what the PR department says?www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/man-utd-official-statement-to-confirm-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-manager
He was hired for 6 months as interim manager and then 2 years as a consultant. Literally the clubs own statement.
Stop spreading falsehoods.
To think the six month role trumps the two year one doesn't make a lot of sense especially with the context of him being highly regarded as a director of football type first and not as a manager.
It's a literal contract.Obviously they didn't mean it. This is just a meaningless PR statement. Do you always believe what the PR department says?
A "consultant" has no office. It is a vague position that means nothing. Who are the consultants at Liverpool? At Chelsea? How many consultants is Man Utd paying today? What do they do?I agree, I think the original plan was to move him into the office and be a consultant to ETH/Poch. They didn't expect him to lose the dressing room at the end and the PR turned sour (Athletic pushed out the articles of him being overwhelmed by the intensity of the league, Armas talking to some guy in Russia watching on a laptop, etc), and then discovered that ETH wasn't that hot on the idea anyways.
It doesn't does it?www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/man-utd-official-statement-to-confirm-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-manager
He was hired for 6 months as interim manager and then 2 years as a consultant. Literally the clubs own statement.
Stop spreading falsehoods.
To think the six month role trumps the two year one doesn't make a lot of sense especially with the context of him being highly regarded as a director of football type first and not as a manager.
Whatever it was, it was terminated before it ever started. A completely meaningless thing.It's a literal contract.
Are you a Barca fan? They seem to see contracts as just PR stunts.
Or even defined the role with a title of some sort.And yet if there was this long term plan in place for Rangnick to be a recruitment consultant, head of recruitment or similar and rebuild the clubs scouting network you'd imagine the club would have moved on his recommended targets in January yes?
