Knee jerk reaction, football fans never change. Same op will be creating threads in a month saying he's back after a hatrick. You give him a few games before going there, not being on the bench in early September.
Do you believe Ronaldo is finished as a top level player?
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No disagreement from me, I meant as in ability, however he is in a ditch right now. Not gonna lie.
But he's paid like a world class player in his prime.
I think his form will certainly pick up, but he's not going to be hitting anywhere near the heights he used to. That's to say he's a player on a pretty steady decline (not unexpected given the previously unseen heights he was hitting).
It would be less evident if he was playing in France or Germany for instance, and his forgoing of a preseason certainly hasn't done him any favours. Still more reliable than Martial, mind.
It would be less evident if he was playing in France or Germany for instance, and his forgoing of a preseason certainly hasn't done him any favours. Still more reliable than Martial, mind.
Depends what you mean by top player. Has he finished being in the top 5 number 9's in the world? Yes of course he has.
Is he finished as a good goal scorer and PL player. Then no, I still think he has a lot to offer.
Is he finished as a good goal scorer and PL player. Then no, I still think he has a lot to offer.
Yes I think this is his lowest level. He went for a shot straight at the goal for penalty, I think it might be a sign of low confidence (he always goes for corners I think).
We should expect him to do better, but I actually think he's getting worse which each game. I certainly don't see any signs of improvement this season, I hope he needs minutes to get better fitness level, because we will need him this season.
This is where his decline is really showing and none of that can be explained by him saving himself for the WC as some people are trying to argue. It's sad to see him fail at the most basic parts of the game and it's clear as day that his elite finishing (which I still think he has in him, at least when it comes to one-touch football) is in no way worth the downsides of having him on the pitch. I thought that was true even last season but now it's just glaringly obvious.
We should never adjust our overall tactics to suit a player. Plan B or not.
If he is incapable of operating to a decent standard within ten Hag's style he needs to be moved on.
As it stands he will get decent time due to our severe lack of options upfront. But if that comes at the detriment of the team and results I believe ten Hag has the Jacobs to drop him.
I think so, and its because the qualities that made him great are either faded or are fading fast. His greatness has been largely down to his physical ability compared to others. He had the breakaway speed, could hit the ball harder than anyone and could jump higher than anyone. Now, that those qualities are fading quickly, there isn't anything technical to fall back on, unlike players like Giggs and Scholes or Messi, Benzema and Lewandowski right now who can extend their careers at the top level because of their technical soundness. Prime Ronaldo was special because he was a physical specimen. A lot of that is not there anymore because of his age (37 years young) and the miles on his body. He has lost a big step. Breakaway speed isn't there anymore and he now hesitates in situations where prime Ronaldo would not even think twice. Its ultimately about whether his massive ego will be able to come to terms with the decline and allow him to retire gracefully.
His general play was already lacking last season. This season it has worsen.
The board is dumb for not flogging him as soon as possible. Commercial over football.
The board is dumb for not flogging him as soon as possible. Commercial over football.
Performance wise both Utd and Ronaldo have been shit since his return. Very few quality games…even when scoring they were moments as opposed to performances. We are not Man City. We can’t carry a player like that.
it’s not knee jerk when he has been shit for 18 months bar a highlight reel which would extend cumulatively to about 20 minutes of Ronaldo level football and the rest just poor or non existent.
we need to move on and I firmly believe we would have had martial stayed fit.Ronny wouldn’t be getting a sniff and rightly so.
Nonsens, he's was awful in open play last year and lots of people pointed it out. He's 37, it's logic, nowhere near a knee jerk.
We were never getting Haaland. If Real with their pull couldn't get Mbappe from an oil state. There is no way we were getting Haaland. No club can really compete with the money the oil states offer.
Yes. He's 37 and despite him being a physical phenomenon it isn't enough in a game now dominated by physical excellence across the pitch. His ego is far too big to hang his boots up at a 'lesser' club but he really ought to in the next year or so.
Well, yeah? You change a system to fit around a player in exceptional circumstances. Ronaldo is absolutely not good enough to arrange for that.
The long term goal is to get a cohesive style of football for the entire team to get used to ten Hag's tactical approach. Not sacrifice another season to pander and adorn the ability (or lack thereof) a 37 year old striker so he can get another 1 in 2 individual goalscoring record but the entire team to continue to look hapless from an overall build-up perspective.
EDIT: Looks like @b82REZ beat me to the punch.
He seems to have lost a bit of pace, which is not surprising, and appears a little low in confidence (which is surprising, I guess), but finished at a top level? Hardly. I wish I was as "finished" as him. Give him a few more goals and some more time on the pitch and then we'll see. To me, it would also help immensely if he played in a wider position or just behind a real no9 to give him more freedom and space and give opposing defenders more to think about
Exactly. EtH seems to be doing exactly that as well. I think he would happily have let Ronaldo leave over the summer but the club/Ronaldo couldn't make it happen. Now Ronaldo is being treated as he should. A player past his prime that doesn't fit in with the style of football the manager wants to play. It was stupid to bring him back to United and I think its been a massively costly mistake for many reasons. Thankfully he should be gone at the end of the season or even better, in January.
I'm hoping the reality of his position in the team will make him want to leave ASAP.
Yes of course he’s finished.
Just as bad for me though is seeing the fanboys in our team always trying to make everything go through him (Bruno, Dalot and seemingly already Antony who behaves like a starstruck groupie)
Just as bad for me though is seeing the fanboys in our team always trying to make everything go through him (Bruno, Dalot and seemingly already Antony who behaves like a starstruck groupie)
is it possible they know a bit more than you?
He's a squad player and that's fine. He is not one of the best players in the world anymore.
He ain't coming, he's done. he''s 38 years old fgs, he ain't going to rewind the clock and turn back into Prime Ronaldo next month. If there was even a hint of his old self capable of coming back he'd have shown flashes in the europa but all he's shown now is that he's nothing but a liability to the the overall team dynamics on the pitch.
As he's here for the season I'd love to be proved wrong but he looks completely off the pace in every area. It really is quite sad to see.
It's not fine if you consider his wage.
The idea that people who think he's finished or no longer at the level that's acceptable want him to fail is a strawman and so intellectually dishonest.
If Ronaldo starts every game, he will probably end up our top goalscorer. Does that mean that's optimal for the team...of course not. Football is a lot more complex than that.
The case for him starting games is threadbare.
If Ronaldo starts every game, he will probably end up our top goalscorer. Does that mean that's optimal for the team...of course not. Football is a lot more complex than that.
The case for him starting games is threadbare.
I'm not sure what you mean?
This is a fundamental question the coach has to answer and one I believe he has already decided. Cristiano Ronaldo is no longer good enough to warrant compromising your style for.
He is finished at premier league level, he could still probably do it in a slower pace/lower quality league but for me I think Ibrahimovic was a better player in his mid to late 30's than what ronaldo is, I think has made the mistake of training his body to look good for instagram photos than to adjust to football in his twilight years and is why his movement and balance seems so stiff.
You hear of players like giggs and Ibrahimovic that benefited from diet changes and doing yoga and martial arts, has ronaldo done those same changes or is still just wanting to look buff?
You hear of players like giggs and Ibrahimovic that benefited from diet changes and doing yoga and martial arts, has ronaldo done those same changes or is still just wanting to look buff?
Stop sitting on the fence, what do you really think?
Finished, no, but he's entered a new phase for sure. The days of him targeting a goal a game ratio and bagging 10+ goals in the Champions League every season are gone (our non-participation notwithstanding).
As a squad option in a team that creates chances, he would still score a fair few. But given that he wouldn't be a starter in a top team, his league target will be more like 10, and I'd be impressed if he managed 20 in all comps again.
As a squad option in a team that creates chances, he would still score a fair few. But given that he wouldn't be a starter in a top team, his league target will be more like 10, and I'd be impressed if he managed 20 in all comps again.
Who here knows if our bodies regress linearly or exponentially?
In direct proportion to your nut sack advancing towards your ankles.
You mean if Fergie hadn't intervened. No way was he Ole's signing.
Exactly he's been too busy pumping weights to look like some IG footballer and as a result he looks as stiff as ironing board. I said it before instead of seeking refuge in Jordan Peterson, he should he been talking to Zlatan about how to preserve the body and adapt to the modern game when aging.
He reminds me of Anthony Joshua, both guys past their prime obsessed with bodybuilding and IG Hollywood esque photography instead of adapting and focusing on adjusting their style and craft to their profession.
Considering Messi was so called 'finish' last year, Ronaldo has done well having a poor season only on his 37th year.
I saw something on twitter that I totally agreed with - He needs to just play in the box now. Look how Haaland is playing with City, minimum touches outside the box. Thats what Ronaldo needs to do. It's up to Bruno. Eriksen, Sancho and Antony to advance the ball to him and create chances.
He hasn't adapted to the role of a veteran striker. He could easily play off the shoulder of a centre back and give them a torrid time. He can out jump them on crosses, beat them over 10 yards, have the movement in the box to get on the end of tap ins. But instead, he's running about into areas where we don't need him. Dropping back into the number 10, running out to the wing, demanding the ball in areas where our creative players already have it covered. He's picking up the ball wide and then looking up for the striker to knock it into, and not realising that HE IS THE STRIKER.
In simple terms, he needs to stay up front, own the six yard box, get on the end of crosses, give the centre backs a hard time with his runs and movement. If he stuck to that, he would score goals and be useful this season, but does he have the intelligence to adapt or does Ten Hag have to make him do it.
Hate to say it, but look at Haaland. He gets something like 8 touches a game. But scores the winner, sometimes a hat-trick. He's not out on the wing or in Midfield. "Just play it into an area and I will do the rest". Ronaldo scored 24 goals last season, you don't lose that ability in a matter of months.
In simple terms, he needs to stay up front, own the six yard box, get on the end of crosses, give the centre backs a hard time with his runs and movement. If he stuck to that, he would score goals and be useful this season, but does he have the intelligence to adapt or does Ten Hag have to make him do it.
Hate to say it, but look at Haaland. He gets something like 8 touches a game. But scores the winner, sometimes a hat-trick. He's not out on the wing or in Midfield. "Just play it into an area and I will do the rest". Ronaldo scored 24 goals last season, you don't lose that ability in a matter of months.
That's not the case, he's being regularly outpaced whether that is 1' or 90' and he just entered the pitch (chased by defenders playing already full game). He's too slow to play any kind of counter-attacking football. Even the runs he makes he's constantly offside.
He seems a bit stiff, I think he will do a bit better once he gets up to speed but I have no idea how much time it requires for him at this age.
Pretty much this.
I am not convinced Ole wanted him and it may well have derailed his rebuild.
Indeed. He was constantly dropping too deep or going to the wings to receive the ball, which just doesn't make sense to me. He was barely in or around the box. Look at this:
And these are Haaland's and Lewandowski's the previous night:
They also occasionally drop deep, but mostly stay in and on the fringes of the box. I'd understand Ronaldo doing what he did if we were playing against a team playing a high defensive line, but Sheriff didn't. It just makes no sense to me what he was doing.
I think it's a bit more complicated than that, I think last season we tried to play to Ronaldo's strengths because Ole bottled it (I say this as a massive Ole fan) and Rangnick had no choice but to play that way, unfortunately playing this way seems to be detrimental to two of our most productive assets over the last five seasons, Fernandes and Rashford both seem to slacken whenever we paly to Ronaldo's interests, and likewise, Ronaldo seems to come up short when the team is set up to play on the strengths of those around him.
Do I think Ronaldo is done as a ULC forward? No, do I think Ronaldo can still be prosperous for this Manchester United team? NO.
Do I think Ronaldo is done as a ULC forward? No, do I think Ronaldo can still be prosperous for this Manchester United team? NO.