How can an entity that doesn't exist pay reparations?
Gianni Infantino loses the plot (WC 2002 Edition)
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It matters when you extend that generalisation to citizens of those countries, especially when they as vociferously, if not more, criticise the internal issues in their countries.
I just hope you have the same disgust in four years time. You talk about workers rights? No paid holidays, no health care and relying on customers to tip you because of a disgustingly low hourly rate.
Isn't that what I said? It's a ridiculous... argument, if you can even call it that. "Oh, Europeans killed millions awhile ago, so we should also be allowed to kill a bunch of people."
Surely this can't be a real post? Surely, surely you are not comparing living and working in the Middle East to living in the USA? Surely?
Good God...
What has 4 years time got to do about it? I could easily call you out for not showing the same disgust now as you will in 4 years time.
Please ignore the obvious WUMs likening working conditions in the US to those of migrant workers in Qatar.
I’m actually quite glad to see Infantino go on this rant. This tirade shows he’s out of touch but how emotional and explosive it was shows that Gianni feels the pressure and is aware that vast majority of people he’ll ever meet in life will think of him as a piece of shit. Deeply hoping he gets embarrassed few times more in the upcoming weeks and I’d like to see him run for re-election at FIFA and lose it, even if it seems unlikely, with many powerful forces including the FA still likely to back him
I’m actually quite glad to see Infantino go on this rant. This tirade shows he’s out of touch but how emotional and explosive it was shows that Gianni feels the pressure and is aware that vast majority of people he’ll ever meet in life will think of him as a piece of shit. Deeply hoping he gets embarrassed few times more in the upcoming weeks and I’d like to see him run for re-election at FIFA and lose it, even if it seems unlikely, with many powerful forces including the FA still likely to back him
Beginning to see the flaws in your logic? Whoever was wronged only gets compensated if they were lucky enough that they were wronged by the correct people...
I know the topic has got knee deep in reparations and historical politics but clearly Infantino is in the wrong to spout what he did. People can boycott/complain about what they like. I understand why people would boycott Qatar 2022 and why people would boycott 2026 in the states. Being from the UK would I care if people tried to boycott an English world cup? Not really, if they had their reasons its their choice. Its Infantino complaining about people complaining thats the problem and bringing up daft comparisons of being a ginger italian and talking of hypocrisy. We're not responsible for what our dads did let alone our great-great grandfather's from 100BC. We're living in the here and now and some people don't like the idea of gays not being able to enjoy the world cup like any other person, or thousands of people dying to build these stadiums in the desert. What is so problematic about that that Infantino needs to have his little rant?
The world cup has been sold to the highest bidder and Infantino has no moral compass. He wasn't going to run for the presidency if Platini was cleared of bribery allegations, that tells you everything. You know its a bad situation when even Blatter is now saying Qatar hosting the world cup is a mistake.
The world cup has been sold to the highest bidder and Infantino has no moral compass. He wasn't going to run for the presidency if Platini was cleared of bribery allegations, that tells you everything. You know its a bad situation when even Blatter is now saying Qatar hosting the world cup is a mistake.
That's the problem, the whole system is corrupt and greedy. The players aren't put into such positions normally but I bet a lot of them would sell their souls if it was financially benefical for them. Unfortunately I imagine the type of people Infantino hangs out with couldn't give a shit about these moral dilemmas.
So I was wrong? Free health care? Good hourly rate? Paid holidays?
Surely this can't be a real post? Surely, surely you are not comparing living and working in the Middle East to living in the USA? Surely?
Good God...
He's running unopposed unfortunately. Will be hard for even FIFA to feck that up.
I'm not the one sitting on my high horse pretending the western world is perfect.
Actually, that's not a flaw in his logic, but a flaw in your understanding of how the world works. Very few entities actually cease to exist, in legal terms. Usually, someone claims successor state status, which causes them to assume both the rights and obligations of the entity they succeed. For example, Russia is the successor state to the Soviet Union. Austria and Hungary were both successor states to the Habsburg empire. West Germany assumed successor status for the German Reich (and hence legal responsibility for the acts committed by Nazi Germany), and then for the GDR after reunification. And the UK most certainly would be responsible for the British Empire, long gone though it is.
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These aren't "Random examples". Open a history book for once in your life for crying out loud. Read up on Julius Caesar, Cyrus the Great, Ataxerxes, Alexander, read up on Harald Hardraada, Harold 2, read any one of a thousand different monarchs behaviours in antiquity and then really, REALLY think about what you're saying. Are we going to find all their ancestors and "demand reparations"? Is that really a worthwhile use of our time? The perpetrators are dead and - AND - we can't apply our morality to ancient civilizations because that morality didn't even -exist- at that point. Slavery was legal hundreds of years ago.
Or if you want to be angry at something (because clearly you do need something to blame) then perhaps the people holding an estimated 8 million slaves in India could be a start? https://m.timesofindia.com/india/does-india-have-8-million-slaves/amp_articleshow/90986262.cms
Or (back on topic in a roundabout way) we can hold up those perpetrating human rights abuses in Qatar or wherever else we find it to light.
We can't do anything about the past but we can absolutely hold people to account for what they're doing in the world today, instead of pretending it's all someone else's fault.
The Qatari literally stole the passports of the workers, so they couldn't leave. "Kefala" system they call it. It's indentured servitude. Then had them work 16-18hr shifts heavy construction in temperatures above 40C, with little to no safety standards. All of this for between $200 and $300 a month. Some didn't get paid for months.
What you are saying is not just wrong. It's insane. I sincerely hope you are wumming.
What a trainwreck thread. The lengths people go to with their whataboutism. One fella comparing the plight of migrant workers with American waiters. Insane
This is why we can’t have nice things. No one wants to introspect and question their own state, nation or principles.
This is why we can’t have nice things. No one wants to introspect and question their own state, nation or principles.
Infantino is a piece of shit. Current atrocities by Qatari cannot be excused by whatever Europeans have done historically. Also the history of humankind is ugly, not just that of "Europeans", it's not like Arabs were angels for the past thousand years.
And lastly, being homophobic is not a cultural value. The pretend "culture" doesn't override universal human rights, that is what the fecking word "universal" stands for.
But Infantino is a corrupt piece of garbage. That's the truth
And lastly, being homophobic is not a cultural value. The pretend "culture" doesn't override universal human rights, that is what the fecking word "universal" stands for.
But Infantino is a corrupt piece of garbage. That's the truth
Pretty sure no one is. Just in your warped reality.
A successor is by definition a new entity, whether they accept legal responsibility or not. That being beside the point most entities in the world's history have ended without a legal successor because the very concept wasn't invented.
Right? Some of the worst takes I've seen in recent times are in this thread. I can't believe what I'm reading, especially that dude.
What a mess!Agreed
You mean the Middle East where you white collar jobs get much higher salaries, zero income tax and health care? Certainly better than working in the US
Surely this can't be a real post? Surely, surely you are not comparing living and working in the Middle East to living in the USA? Surely?
Good God...
If you want to talk about migrant workers conditions though, no defense or comparison for that. It's horrible, the worse is people take their passports so they can control when they go on holidays. And this isn't even a problem for companies hiring migrant workers, but common household workers like nannies working for families. It's not an Arabic family problem but rather a wider culture that I've heard of affluent South Asian families doing it, I haven't directly heard of western expats doing it but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
Long live this thread!
I love how "middle east" is suddenly one thing where everywhere people are apparently paid more than in the US. And then to add more legitimacy, the addition of "white collar"You mean the Middle East where you white collar jobs get much higher salaries, zero income tax and health care? Certainly better than working in the US
Yeah - bullshit!
1. Much of middle east is piss poor or not very rich. It's bot all oil countries
2. Even in oil rich countries on average "white collar" jobs are NOT paid more than in the US.
3. Most people would rather make a little less and live in a free country than in Qatar
Do you even know how much software engineers, bankers, and lawyers make in the US?
Stop the bullshit
As an African, I consider this a ridiculous stance.
Which is obviously very wrong. It's also companies and corporation's from around the world that are exploiting the workers in Qator paying them peanuts while they make huge profits. It's a rich man's world run by a select few. The rest of us are just peasants arguing on an Internet forum.
Do you watch a lot of movies? Swiss have enough problems just like anybody else but Swiss banks are far from safe havens for anybody. As a matter of fact Swiss banks freeze assets on request by US all the time. World's criminals have long learned to park money in banks of various small islands, instead of Swiss, but you must still believe in the legend of Swiss banks
The whataboutery is insane, isn't it? Foreign policy aside, comparing the two is bonkers.
Surely this can't be a real post? Surely, surely you are not comparing living and working in the Middle East to living in the USA? Surely?
Good God...
It's really isn't. Infact I'll go out on a limb here and say the American government has killed a lot more innocent people than the Qatari government have.
Pretty much all of the hilarious takes in this thread, can be sustained publicly in US/Europe, even in mainstream media. Let's try that in this years WC host and see how it goes.
There's 300k Qatari's.
It's a football tournament. Nothing to do with politics.
The USSR competed in it many times without controversy for example.
There's 8 billion people on the planet mate.
And some of them might be your mates, but I'm not.
Defending Qatar by attacking a country 8k miles away that doesn't even like football is exactly what someone who by law cannot be challenged would come up with.
It’s political. Its entire existence is sportswashing, which is entirely political.
He was absolutely, completely and utterly correct.
Is anyone?
But if much of the world still lives in the 19th century- early 20th century, Qatar and parts of the arab world are still clinging onto medieval times quite comfortably.
I'm not defending anyone I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of posters like you.
What the feck do you know about me?
I don’t like to be rude but the idiocy of some of the posts in this thread are just astounding. What these people fail to understand is that the very people from the west who are calling out the issues in Qatar would and do call out those issues around the world and in particular in their own countries too. So it’s not hypocrisy at all. But the difference is that at least there is a platform to do so. An opportunity, albeit not perfect, to vote. The people of Qatar and the migrant workers who are impacted by the issues there have no such platform, no such rights. So it’s particularly sickening when their plight is reduced to insignificant and unimportant because those who wish to call Qatar out are from countries with their own problems, especially when they do so on platforms which is available in those countries whilst the neglected migrants who can’t voice their concerns anywhere for a whole host of reasons whose issues are instead downplayed to try and achieve some kind of moral victory. And yet, somehow, I’m hypocritical.