Yup. He is essentially playing in Pogba’s position, but better than Pogba ever did. He has an amazing engine, and is playing so good when defending.
He is as important to France, as Modric to Croatia.
Who has had the better international career? Messi or Ronaldo?
- Thread starter tentan
- Start date
He is as important to France, as Modric to Croatia.
I have to be honest I don’t think that’s a fair reflection of things. I’ve seen Ronaldo’s entire career and I’ve never seen him carry a weak Portugal. As a squad they’ve tended to have good balance throughout their teams, and really good players playing at the highest level. But so many people talk about Ronaldo with Portugal as though it’s Jari Litmanen with Finland, it’s odd to me. Really underselling Portugal as a nation, who’ve been producing fantastic players for a long time now. The narrative of having “carried” Portugal seems to stem from one game against Sweden in a qualifying play -off, in which Moutinho also played a brilliant match.
No. Varane, Lloris, Kanté, Pogba, Hernandez and Griezmann were roughly around the same level. I personally would give it to Varane while Mbappé isn't in contention.
Otherwise, yeah Griezmann is the most important player since 2014.
Was Griezmann really that good in 2018? I don't remember him doing much apart from being good in setpieces and converting his penalties.
I did before, to the same people, not sure if in this thread or in the old one.
Ok let me update my stuff and I'll put it here.
Just look at the portugal teams at the WC/Euros in that era. Bang average with Cristiano carrying the attack by himself
Is this even a debate anymore?
Wowzers. At least Ronaldo fanatics can cope with the fact that he is.....I dunno... taller than Messi? I'm struggling to think of anything else.
No it isn't. I think Messi will win the player of the tournament again too unless Mbappe bags another few goals.
If Messi wins the world cup then there is no debate. What a terrible few months for Ronaldo. Benched for united, benched for Portugal, no big team wants him, and now Messi might win the world cup.
Ha. Debate Over.
wasn't a debate since 2009/2010 who the better player is. Better international career is clear now as well.
Last edited:
Looks written in the stars that he'll win the World Cup and retire from international football, and jet off to that States in the summer to see out his final year.
He also got fired by Manchester United.
That would be incredibly sad, given he still looks like a world class player. If he's handled well (i.e. rested well), he could play a couple more seasons for a top team.
If the stories are true that he cleared his locker before that interview aired, then its more like quitting by mutual consent.
Brilliant
Yep. Contrary to some opinions on here it has never really been close between the two for me. The moment Messi ripped Madrid apart in that 2011 semi any hint of a debate was finished. Then he went and scored 91 goals in a calendar year. Nobody is even remotely close to the man.
Even if he loses the final on Sunday, he'll still have a better international career given that he led his team to 2 WC finals. A few more international career highlights added to his name
All time top scorer for Argentina in the WC
Tied all time top assists for Argentina in a WC
Likely to be the best player in the WC again (unless Mbappe puts on something magical against Morroco and Argentina)
All time top scorer for Argentina in the WC
Tied all time top assists for Argentina in a WC
Likely to be the best player in the WC again (unless Mbappe puts on something magical against Morroco and Argentina)
I'd honestly separate Messi doing well and Ronaldo's demise. It's already been bad enough for him
I'm afraid that's a genuine possibility, as crazy as it sounds. Messi winning it and being a player of the tournament would basically be worst possible end to a terrible year for Cristiano.
He was.
His Euro 2016 was even better, forgotten by many cause a shot on post in the last minute by Gignac, and Portugal ended up winning.
Now his WC 2022 is even better.
And he was always great for Atlético in his first stint there and also at Real Sociedad, magnificent player and very talented, sad he made a bad move joining Barca and playing out of position.
And it would end next year when Messi wins his 8th Ballon D'Or
No one is defending it because they don't need to, surely? it happened. it's factual. it's recorded in history.
Also, Ronaldo had to carry a weak Portugal side whilst Messi had a stacked side, i assume>
He absolutely was. He's been an essential cog in the France machine since 2016.
Sure it is. Doesn't mean it wasn't nonsense
For the most part, yeah. Aside from the 2010 WC under Maradona, from 2007 to 2016 the team was absolutely stacked. This version may not quite be a stacked team yet but it's great - finally have a serious goalkeeper, CBs, good wingbacks, a serious midfield with a genuine surefire star in Enzo and Julian Alvarez up top looks like a star in the making too. Won the Copa America last year too
The Argentine team isn’t that great Martinez is ok, Cbs aren’t great at all although Romero is good, Otamendi was decent at City in his prime but not better than Pepe for example even in 2016. The midfield is ok, they have one potential star in Enzo but I don’t really see them having a team full of great individuals on paper.
If by stacked, you mean stacked in 3 positions. Then yes, stacked.
Ronaldo's wc record is pretty meh. 2006 was his best and since then it has just been poor. In euros he has been somewhat better. On contrary, Messi has been a beast in WC. So yeah it's Messi who wins this easily.
are you kidding? Take a look at the squads from 2007 to 2016
@JPRouve made a good comment about it the other day. they were stacked up top (plus Masch), but not really a very balanced side, IMO. You can only play so many attackers (who barely showed up for the NT anyway) at any one point.
Yeah he's struggled somewhat at the world cup.
0 goals and 0 assists in the KO stages in 8 appearances.
10 total goal contributions across 5 tournaments (for perspective, Messi has 8 goal contributions in this year's tournament alone at the age of 35).
You mean stacked in attack ?
For example:
The Copa Final in 2016 that they lost to Chile on penalties had a back 4 of Mercado, Otamendi, Funes and Rojo and a midfield 3 of Biglia, Banega and an ageing Mascherano, I'm not sure how you can call that stacked.
Maybe you thought they were stacked because they had Aguero, Pastore, Lamela and Lavezzi on the bench... Unfortunately they can't play CB, CM, LB or RB.
Martinez is good, Romero too and Otamendi is keeping your own Lisandro Martinez out of the team. You're right it's not a stacked team, but there isn't a single player who's less than above-average(normally), and I think in a few years it will look even better in hindsight if Enzo and Alvarez - who have played like genuine stars so far - go on to establish themselves as superstars, which is likely. And it's a very functional team too. This is a bit like their '86 team, probably a bit better individually too(and yes, this team without Messi wouldn't be this good, though they do have Dybala on the bench. And Di Maria. They'd still likely be really good)
2010 team was stacked if Maradona wasn't such an idiot.
With Cambiasso & Zanetti that team could've legitimately won the WC
With Cambiasso & Zanetti that team could've legitimately won the WC
Look up the team that lost to Brazil in 2007. In 2010 with a sane and good manager they have Zanetti, Samuel, Demichelis, Mascherano, Cambiasso, Di Maria, Messi and 2 of Higuain, Tevez, Milito and Aguero. Even with Maradona in charge they still had all of those guys bar Zanetti and Cambiasso. 2011, pretty much same story. Sure the 2014-16 sides were more arguable, but i'd call any team that fields Mascherano, Di Maria, Messi, Lavezzi and one of Higuain or Aguero as stacked. Also had Banega and Pastore for the copas too, plus Dybala. The defenders and midfield options weren't WC but they were still quite good, they did lack a bit of depth though and had no real replacement for Di Maria(the common theme of 2014-16 was Di Maria getting injured followed by everyone else shitting the bed. The one time he stays healthy he scores the winner in the final....)
Edit: ok 2016 less so, that team maybe lacked defenders to be called stacked. And made the final pretty much without the need for Messi anyways...
Last edited:
Yeah. Argentina have always had lots of good players but they have generally overlapped. Portugal on the end have generally had less talent overall but their top 14-15 combination has consistently been one of the best in the World and generally more reliable players. The only big issue for them has been centre forwards but fortunately for them, Ronaldo was able to often compensate for that. Messi on the other mainly compensated when it comes to midfield and creative issues for Argentina because some of the regular teams involved the likes of Gago, Enzo Perez and other Maxi Rodriguez.
That team wasn't stacked, the team fans was subpar and Maxi Rodriguez was a legitimate starting option.