Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)

[lex talionis]

This is all just irrelevant nerdling fantasy football.

How can you proclaim that the players of the 60s could easily play at the elite level in the modern game when a deformed alcoholic like Garrincha dominated a world cup at 29-years-old? It's pure conjecture.

Here's is Garrincha's best ever performance, against England, at the WC in 1962. The quality of the football is very poor. It's a different game now.

Ridiculous argument.

Consider other sports. In basketball, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain would dominate the NBA today. In American football, Jim Brown would dominate the NFL. In baseball, Mickey Mantle and Bob Gibson would dominate MLB. Going back even further, Babe Ruth and Joe DiMaggio would be as dominant today as they were back in the 1920s and 1930s.

Pele himself was no alcoholic cripple who preyed on other alcoholic cripples. He was dominant both in Brazil and on the international stage. Take nothing away from Messi whatsoever, as his dominance over the last decade is indisputable, and anyone who elevates him over Pele has a case. But Pele was of a completely different class relative to his peers, which includes Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, Charlton and Best, all of whom would walk into any Real or Barcelona side today as well as any WC winning team since 1970.

 

[RC89]

Shorter career but higher highs

Also Messi really has to thank Emi Martinez for this

Maradona played 16 years for the NT v Messis 18. Messi has 98 goals v 34 for Maradona.

Messi TBF has played 172 games v 91 for Maradona so that's a huge difference but Messis rate of goals and assists still remains much higher.

No he's not. He's not a role model in behavior. Greatest of all time is not Messi. Just cause he's won a World Cup doesn't mean he's the GOAT.

National football is much poorer than club football in my view.

Agreed. But it was the last infinity stone he needed to collect.

 

[That_Bloke]

This is a great post, especially last paragraph. In 60's Pele was GOAT and will be forever best player of that era. And Garrincha was the best dribbler at that time. But comparing them to current era is just not fair. Tactics changed, medicine advancements, nutrition, cryotherapy and so on. Compare ball of 50's and now. Compare boots players have now to 50's. Quality of pitch and so on.

How's that a great post? He's absolutely having a nightmare and you give all the reasons why.

 

[Member 117152]

Oh come on dont down play it

The world cup is the pinnacle and everybody knows it

Ask Ronaldo if he'd swap those CL's for a WC and he would.

Messi performed better in the CL finals too and against better sides in those finals. Our peak United side for one, won two trebles and became with his ballon D’Ors the most decorated player in history.

Everyone calls Ronnie the goat now because he managed a few more goals in friendlies against Iceland or Faroe Islands.

Nobody cares about those scoring records apart from Ronaldo fans because he’s played another 100 games. They will be counting his goals in Saudi too like it’s the same as at United and Real. I want to see them in the USA together like the old days in Spain.

Basically Ronaldo will become retired Pele 2.0 biter Maradona 2.0 was a better footballer than him.

I don’t think Ronaldo wants any of that competition anymore in the same league so will go to Saudi. He’d earn the same in the US if he wanted but can rack up the goals more over there and claim it’s impressive.

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Not everyone. It's not an objective title, despite what everyone in here wants to believe. Being labelled the GOAT is a matter of opinion. That's why the debate rages on and will continue to rage on.

zero argument for Ronaldo though

 

[genardk]

zero argument for Ronaldo though

but he was the cheerleading MVP in EC 2016..

the only one artificially put in the conversation.. fortunately, even most his fans agreed he is no longer a GOAT contender after last night..
5 WCs 0 goals + 0 assists in knock-out rounds..
0 best player award in 5 WC + 4 EC...

simply pathetic..

 

[SportingCP96]

Imagine thinking Ronaldo won the final for Portugal in a final he did not play more than 15 minutes and was a non-factor for Portugal that night
Reading your post someone who has never watched football would think Ronaldo broke havoc in Euros single-handedly winning the tournament for Portugal like Platini in 84 whereas those that follow football knows Portugal won EC "without him" in the final against France in Paris Does anyone remember memorable moments of Ronaldo in Euros other than cheerleading outside the pitch to steal the show?


Of course, they would qualify to every tournament with FIFA increasing WC team numbers from 16 to 32 and UEFA from 8 to 24 over the years..
What was his contribution in those tournaments? Was he the leading guy?
The guy was not even the best player for the Portuguese team let alone the tournament when Portugal won these cups.. Give some credit to your compatriots, man. You look like a sore loser unlike RedRonaldo, Cal? etc.and most other Ronaldo fans by desperately trying to elevate his non-existent status at the GOAT level. You seem to hate every single Portuguese player not named Ronaldo and downgrade them to elevate Ronaldo, simply pathetic.


No, what the Portugal team did despite his absences (especially in the EC final) and above average performances frequently ghosting in 5 WCs holds a lot of weight..



Learn to respect your compatriots not named Ronaldo bringing trophies for Portugal.. Without them, the fraud would not win anything..

The fact you ended your absolute bs of a post with “fraud” only confirms what I already knew and that is that you are more of a hater than a football fan. That was a pathetic Post with no substance.

 

[SportingCP96]

zero argument for Ronaldo though

Why because you said so?

Messi isn’t even the best Argentine of all time let alone the best player of all time.

Ronaldo Could have retired at 30 and been in the GOAT debate.

Greatness.
I’ll
ronaldo is 1-1 in finals for his country

If nation league is counted (probably more competitive then copa) he is 2-1

Messi is 2-4…..

2….and ….4 and his only copa win was the Covid cup with no fans.

 

[FriedClams]

Why because you said so?

Messi isn’t even the best Argentine of all time let alone the best player of all time.

Ronaldo Could have retired at 30 and been in the GOAT debate.

Greatness.
I’ll
ronaldo is 1-1 in finals for his country

If nation league is counted (probably more competitive then copa) he is 2-1

Messi is 2-4…..

2….and ….4 and his only copa win was the Covid cup with no fans.

you should be threadbanned. I’m supporting your right to an opinion but the posts you are making are embarrassing and worded like a spoilt Little kid. Please stop.

 

[SportingCP96]

you should be threadbanned. I’m supporting your right to an opinion but the posts you are making are embarrassing and worded like a spoilt Little kid. Please stop.

So people can say the crap they want but someone replies and he should be thread banned.

This a real democratic way of doing things it seems. Cancel culture at its finest.

 

[SportingCP96]

you should be threadbanned. I’m supporting your right to an opinion but the posts you are making are embarrassing and worded like a spoilt Little kid. Please stop.

And the funny thing is, I didn’t comment once in this thread after the game . Not once. Until petty people want to tag me and another poster in it to try to instigate crap.

then people get upset when replies are made. Makes sense mate.

 

[FriedClams]

So people can say the crap they want but someone replies and he should be thread banned.

This a real democratic way of doing things it seems. Cancel culture at its finest.

all you have to say is “in my opinion, Ronaldo is still the better player” and just leave it there. You are basically acting like skip bayless, only there is actual evidence elsewhere that you can make really good, insightful posts. Please, again, just stop.

 

[genardk]

The fact you ended your absolute bs of a post with “fraud” only confirms what I already knew and that is that you are more of a hater than a football fan. That was a pathetic Post with no substance.

copium is extreme on this one as usual when you have zero answer to any of the statements in my post..

 

[genardk]

Why because you said so?

Messi isn’t even the best Argentine of all time let alone the best player of all time.

Ronaldo Could have retired at 30 and been in the GOAT debate.

Greatness.
I’ll
ronaldo is 1-1 in finals for his country

If nation league is counted (probably more competitive then copa) he is 2-1

Messi is 2-4…..

2….and ….4 and his only copa win was the Covid cup with no fans.

this is truly embarrassing, talk about delusion

 

[FriedClams]

And the funny thing is, I didn’t comment once in this thread after the game . Not once. Until petty people want to tag me and another poster in it to try to instigate crap.

then people get upset when replies are made. Makes sense mate.

no-one is getting upset. Your replies are causIng people to laugh at you, not with you. Your opinion is vastly different from the vast majority of people. And that’s ok, but it’s so much better for you to just never talk about it again. People with way more knowledge and expertise than you have decided that your guy is not As good as the other guy. Which means the people who hold the opinion of majority, will always win.The only way you win is to just be the bigger person, not rise to the bait and carry on elsewhere on the forum. I’ve never seen anyone in my life take bait the way you have.

 

[SportingCP96]

all you have to say is “in my opinion, Ronaldo is still the better player” and just leave it there. You are basically acting like skip bayless, only there is actual evidence elsewhere that you can make really good, insightful posts. Please, again, just stop.

Excerpt that’s not all I’m saying. But alright mate I see where this is going already.

don’t worry carry on allowing other posts to say whatever they want without telling them to be thread banned. Just go 4-5 posts above and read it and tell me how that was worded. Maybe that one doesn’t bother you because It’s the opinion you want.

 

[SportingCP96]

no-one is getting upset. Your replies are causIng people to laugh at you, not with you. Your opinion is vastly different from the vast majority of people. And that’s ok, but it’s so much better for you to just never talk about it again. People with way more knowledge and expertise than you have decided that your guy is not As good as the other guy. Which means the people who hold the opinion of majority, will always win.The only way you win is to just be the bigger person, not rise to the bait and carry on elsewhere on the forum. I’ve never seen anyone in my life take bait the way you have.

Don’t ever talk about it again and don’t voice your opinion.

What a remarkable way of thinking.

This is making my point on here more and more.

You win.

 

[SportingCP96]

.

copium is extreme on this one as usual when you have zero answer to any of the statements in my post

Mate you regurgitate the same stuff constantly. We have debated many times before.

By ending your post by saying “fraud” that’s holds Almost every major record in the sport along with Messi just shows your ignorance.

Your posts are exactly that..Ignorant.

 

[In Rainbows]

Ronaldo has 1 MOTM in Champions League Finals. Messi has 2 MOTM in those finals.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why because you said so?

Messi isn’t even the best Argentine of all time let alone the best player of all time.

Ronaldo Could have retired at 30 and been in the GOAT debate.

Greatness.
I’ll
ronaldo is 1-1 in finals for his country

If nation league is counted (probably more competitive then copa) he is 2-1

Messi is 2-4…..

2….and ….4 and his only copa win was the Covid cup with no fans.

Ronaldo doesn't have a leg to stand on this debate anymore. He's a great player but he's always been the 2nd best of this generation. Even for those who refused to see it based on performances, no longer can based on trophies given Messi has just driven his team to the highest honor in the sport.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ronaldo has 1 MOTM in Champions League Finals. Messi has 2 MOTM in those finals.

And more MOTMs / Golden balls in league football, WCs and Copa / Euros (finals of both as well).

Basically the only argument Ronaldo had that his fans could beat the drum about I.e more glorious career or whatever, is also on Messi's side. To win a WC being that influential at the age of 35 is different gravy.

 

[Lay]

I think debating @SportingCP96 is pointless. Its not like he's going to back down, which is admirable I guess. I do hope he isn't getting too worked up by it all. Being the last man standing for CR7 on this forum is tough.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Spicy thread

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Ronaldo has never won a player of the tournament at the WC nor Euros.

Only the biggest Ronaldo acolytes would think there's still a debate.

 

[RedRonaldo]

And now he's going to say you're not making any sense by ranking that Ronaldo that low.

I agree too. He's in that 4-10 range.

4-10? Name me any player from that range who could possibly win 5 Ballon D’ors during Messi peak era.

You just don’t. None of them could even win more than 3 in Messi-less era.

On the other hand, Ronaldo could have won 9 in Messi-less era.

 

[Floyd_deeps]

To be fair to the Sporting fellow, from whatever little I have followed the caf, he has been a polite nuanced poster for the most of it. I haven’t seen him downplay Messi’s achievements too often. Never seen him act snobbish either about Ronaldo’s supposed supremacy.

That said, the last few days have really brought out the worst in him (and a lot of others admittedly). I can slightly empathise, as I used to myself harbour delusional levels of obsession about Rooney at one point that would often kill my powers to be objective and fair. Probably when the dust settles, he would warm up to the fact it is still an exceptional achievement for CR to be in the discussion for the top 5 all time players. Anyone denying this is also being unfair and has a fair amount of recency bias. Just like our Wazza, people may slightly look past the red mist a few years from now when thinking about Ronnie. Probably forgive his indiscretions and stupidity with the interview etc. Or may be I will get pelters for saying this

For the record, Messi is the best player I have seen, by a mile at that.

 

[colombianmancunian]

Not for me. Messi clearly has achieved more than Ronaldo, and with the WC he has surpassed Drugo… I mean Diego Maradona as Argentina’s best ever. But Pele won 3 WCs which puts him above Messi.

 

[VP]

Getting serious "stop the count" vibes here

 

[Castia]

Not for me. Messi clearly has achieved more than Ronaldo, and with the WC he has surpassed Drugo… I mean Diego Maradona as Argentina’s best ever. But Pele won 3 WCs which puts him above Messi.

Was a different cup back then there was only 16 teams in it

 

[the_cliff]

Why because you said so?

Messi isn’t even the best Argentine of all time let alone the best player of all time.

Ronaldo Could have retired at 30 and been in the GOAT debate.

Greatness.
I’ll
ronaldo is 1-1 in finals for his country

If nation league is counted (probably more competitive then copa) he is 2-1

Messi is 2-4…..

2….and ….4 and his only copa win was the Covid cup with no fans.

By that logic Theodoros Zagorakis is a goat candidate.
1-0 in finals for his country. Won the Euros in Portugal against Portugal. 1-0 in finals over Ronaldo. Euro 2004 player of the tournament.

Before him Greece never qualified for a world cup and managed to qualify for the Euros once in 1980.

Because of Greece's history winning a major tournament, next Euro's they have as much a chance of winning it as Portugal do since Portugal also only won it once. They also must have more of a chance of winning it than Belgium since Belgium hasn't won anything. Since history is a guarantee of future success.

 

[Swoobs]

Ronaldo has never won a player of the tournament at the WC nor Euros.

Only the biggest Ronaldo acolytes would think there's still a debate.

Now the debate for most of his acolytes (except the most deluded ones) has ended with Messi, they turned their attention to Pele or Maradona. Those 3 belonged to a tier of their own, there is no need to shoehone CR7 in, he does not belong there.

Is it such a shame that CR7 is compared to the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur, Platini, Di Stefano and R9 in the next tier?

 

[Eurotrash]

Greatest of this era for sure. Hate comparing players from different eras as to whom is "greatest".

Messi, Maradona and Pele are all GOATS.

 

[AndySmith1990]

The fact you ended your absolute bs of a post with “fraud” only confirms what I already knew and that is that you are more of a hater than a football fan. That was a pathetic Post with no substance.

The irony of this post is probably lost on you

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I'm just glad I don't have to argue Messi Ronadlo debate anymore

 

[dumbo]

No my point is that it is infinitely easier to win international trophies with Argentina then Portugal. White is literally not even debateable.

My point is that Argentina won many trophies without Messi and will continue winning them After him. Portugal might not win a trophy after Ronaldo.

Portugal won 0 before Ronaldo and never even played in a final before Ronaldo, in fact they barely even qualified to international competitions.

With Ronaldo Portugal won their first major trophy And have qualified to ever major international event. The only two trophies Portugal have were with Ronaldo.

What he has done with Portugal holds a lot more weight. International trophies are very lopsided.If Ronaldo played for Brazil in 02 or Argentina or France etc he would have a world cup.
Would that make him a better player ? No it would mean he plays for a better team.

Cedric Soares, André Gomes, Adrien Silva, João Mário. Ronaldo won a Euro with these guys being starters in that team…. This ain’t even worth comparing.

Portugal won feck all before Ronaldo and feck all when Ronaldo was on the pitch.

 

[r1z3mu]

but he was the cheerleading MVP in EC 2016..

the only one artificially put in the conversation.. fortunately, even most his fans agreed he is no longer a GOAT contender after last night..
5 WCs 0 goals + 0 assists in knock-out rounds..
0 best player award in 5 WC + 4 EC...

simply pathetic..

Ouch, that hurts. It's like throwing hand grenade into Ronaldo camp.

 

[TheNewEra]

Now the debate for most of his acolytes (except the most deluded ones) has ended with Messi, they turned their attention to Pele or Maradona. Those 3 belonged to a tier of their own, there is no need to shoehone CR7 in, he does not belong there.

Is it such a shame that CR7 is compared to the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur, Platini, Di Stefano and R9 in the next tier?

I think Messi is above Maradona for longevity, his g+a and trophies is far better, plus on the ball I can't imagine better than Messi, but Maradona was perfect too.

Pele did more at international level, with a perfect team in the 1958 admittedly which helps, but still 3 WCs. 1958 you had 16 teams, then a QF Semi and Final we forget how it was also easier and less likely for upsets.

Still that's down to football not being as developed, the money wasn't in the game then.

Hard to compare between Pele and Messi directly but I put Messi as the greatest I've seen where its just so much more competitive now in modern football.

For me it's 1. Messi 2. Pele 3. Maradona

But of course very hard to compare because none of us really saw much of Pele its a different era, I dont think its an undeniable fact its a preference. Based on what I've seen of them all I just can't conceive of a better footballer than Messi.

 

[Tee27]

Imagine thinking Ronaldo won the final for Portugal in a final he did not play more than 15 minutes and was a non-factor for Portugal that night
Reading your post someone who has never watched football would think Ronaldo broke havoc in Euros single-handedly winning the tournament for Portugal like Platini in 84 whereas those that follow football knows Portugal won EC "without him" in the final against France in Paris Does anyone remember memorable moments of Ronaldo in Euros other than cheerleading outside the pitch to steal the show?


Of course, they would qualify to every tournament with FIFA increasing WC team numbers from 16 to 32 and UEFA from 8 to 24 over the years..
What was his contribution in those tournaments? Was he the leading guy?
The guy was not even the best player for the Portuguese team let alone the tournament when Portugal won these cups.. Give some credit to your compatriots, man. You look like a sore loser unlike RedRonaldo, Cal? etc.and most other Ronaldo fans by desperately trying to elevate his non-existent status at the GOAT level. You seem to hate every single Portuguese player not named Ronaldo and downgrade them to elevate Ronaldo, simply pathetic.


No, what the Portugal team did despite his absences (especially in the EC final) and above average performances frequently ghosting in 5 WCs holds a lot of weight..



Learn to respect your compatriots not named Ronaldo bringing trophies for Portugal.. Without them, the fraud would not win anything..

It’s posts like this which make this whole debate into an absolute shambles. I can understand entirely why to many people now or even before messi is the GOAT but it’s the dismissal of ronaldos achievements which is absolutely absurd like they both haven’t elevated each other to the ridiculous levels they went to.

Imagine calling ronaldo a fraud, wow

 

[Slevs]

Skim read some posts (obviously I'm not gonna read walls of text with posters sucking 2 players' dicks online) but seeing Ronaldo is a fraud

Honestly, some people are just so toxic/sick in the head. Messi wins the greatest of his generation debate over Ronaldo for sure, its not very far though.
This GOAT none-sense downplaying Maradona, saying Pele played at Amateur level etc. Its people trying to validate and cement opinions so that they can say they saw the best best best player of all time in forever and ever play and reminisce and tell stories about how he played.

Christ, just enjoy the game the players play, whoever you support as the best player of his generation without shitting on every other player in the history of the game.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Not for me. Messi clearly has achieved more than Ronaldo, and with the WC he has surpassed Drugo… I mean Diego Maradona as Argentina’s best ever. But Pele won 3 WCs which puts him above Messi.

I think it's fine to rate Pele as the greatest but it should be based on performances not number of WCs. As per that Mbappe winning this WC would have put him above Maradona. Makes no sense.