I thought the initial lifting of the cup and the image of it was the point of the discussion. Pele did not lift the trophy as he was not captain. Anyway, I think as usual there are people upset about about this that needn't be. I found it irritating, but nothing more.
Messi lifting the World Cup in that robe
- Thread starter Zoo
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I was discussing this with some mates earlier, the only reason it "Worked' at all was that it's Messi lifting the trophy (an actual footballing King/ Legend).
Imagine it on Harry Kane!
You said - defend any perceived slight on Qatar - where it's an obvious assumption to make is the regime (re: country). But what did you mean? Did you mean the country? the people? the world cup? All? None?
Forced is a strong term, but also the wrong and inaccurate term. There's a massive difference between 'forced' and 'offered/accepted'. They literally change the meaning and definition of what happened. Messi has agency - he can easily decline wearing it. From further reading - the official twitter account of Argentinian football have no issues, the Argentinian fans have no issues (there's videos of them being interviewed about it), and given that I was watching in real time, Messi, the man who it was put on, has no issues with it. It seems some people, with no real affiliations, are feeling proxy outrage over such a benign thing, which is just very weird.
So this idea that he was forced to wear it is nonsensical which is why I responded to that poster at that moment.
Ok?
Whether Pele put it on or didn't, I don't care. If it was done by a FIFA or Mexican rep, I'd have no issue - and if it was done and Pele declined, I'd have no issue. It's that minor.
The whole thing is such a dumb thing to express outrage over.
Edit: And going by some of the tweets (and now deleted tweets) I've seen from some twitter journos, there's definitely an undertone of orientalism / colonialism in some of the tweets (such as Mark Ogden) with the whole thing.
Correct, that was tailored for his height.
They wouldn't have done that no, it was just for Messi.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64018448
Qatars organising committee planned it to honour Messi apparently, and its the literal Emir of Qatar that did it.
It's similar to the King giving you something that only a royal or high ranking person would have in a very traditional society. I think its a nice gesture.
Honestly if King Charles gave a player a crown to wear or in 2026 they gave a traditional headdress to wear nobody would bat an eye.
Was only planned and done for Messi. May have been given to Mbappe as well if he won apparently but defo not Lloris.
That's the word round these sides (UAE).
It's like a sign of respect and Zidane was also given one when he visited Kuwait.
https://sala6a.files.wordpress.com/...8b4d8aa-d985d8b4d8acd8b9-d8b3d984d981d98a.png
Wouldn't put it past Qatar to also be a PR stunt but I seriously don't think it would've been given to anyone other than Messi. Aguero's post on social media 'a pic of Messi in the robe' with the caption King makes me think that maybe they knew about it beforehand....
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So saying you don't like something is triggered now. FFS
But outrage over the outage is kinda your thing.
Specifically I meant Qatar in their role as hosts of the World Cup.
Of course, which is why I won't agree that he was forced to wear it.
I don't agree that he was fully comfortable with the attire due to the fact he whipped it off ASAP when he got off the podium but I won't say that he was against wearing it either.
I don't think this place is "Outraged" more perplexed and bemused.
Most of which could have been avoided if the hosts explained their decision to robe him before the fact or waited until after the podium lift (but missing their chance for maximum exposure) to robe him.
Only an idiot would think I'm outraged over the outrage. Bewildered is more accurate for me.
And only an idiot would think people are outraged, they just don't like it. You'd do well to listen to your own lectures on hypocrisy.
I think he had no issue with it - and to be honest, from actually reading some posters on this specific page it seemed it was specifically done to honour Messi in the eventuality he won the WC. Maybe because of the obvious PSG-Qatar links.
I think it was explained before hand (as per my comment above).
Come on mate the whole world would mock them
Yes, exactly this.
Yes, exactly this.
Yes, exactly this. Perhaps Mbappe but probably not yet, maybe in 10 years time.
I only responded to your post as I see you as a reasonable fella. I certainly wasn't trying to "defend" the act either. Just putting it out there that it wasn't cultural in the way some have portrayed it.
My own view was it was laughable. Wasn't a need for it but at the same time not a Biggie as some seem to have made it. Not you by the way.
What is the tradition of the World Cup exactly?
Are you suggesting that the World Cup should be entirely centric on Western tradition? I think that's a dangerous POV.
The whole ceremony was ruined and Argentinian colours could not be seen? Are you colour blind mate?
You are truly a lovely human who sees the positive, as I wouldn't blame someone for not seeing me that way.
1, that the captain and winner lifts the trophy in their teams colours without wearing anything to block the jersey.
2, First Arab world cup and they break tradition, yes they should stick to tradition without disrespecting almost a 100 year old tradition to push their own narrative.
3, Yes the ceremony of the captain lifting the trophy without being able to see him wearing his iconic Argentinian colours ruined the lifting of the trophy part.
Which narrative is that? Whatever we think about these people are how horribly vile they may be - anyone with that kind of wealth just is a piece of shit - all I saw was Messi literally stood there like a king and one of the most iconic images, once the Emir and Infantino disappeared.
Messi wearing a Bisht pushing a narrative is a crazy point of view. I'm not sure what it will influence, other than half a million Argentinians buying one online for a laugh.
Yeah, I think 0-0s are generally a good indicator of boring matches. Yes, there can be exciting 0-0s but as a rule of thumb, they're generally dreary affairs.
It was Messi and Argentina's moment and FIFA and Qatar just had to get involved and put the Bisht on. I thought it was unnecessary and disrespectful to the tradition of the world cup to do that and take away from their moment.
What?
1) The captain and winner had no issue with it - and as some other poster's have mentioned, it was more than likely done as an exception to Messi given the obvious PSG-Qatar links.
2) Who cares about the tradition? Do you think this ceremony was in anyway similar to the ceremony in the 1926 or 1922 world cup? I doubt there are many people out there annoyed because FIFA traditional/culture deviated from the scope somewhat. I also think the whole point of moving the tournament from one confederation to the next is so people can see the host's culture in some way on a global sport. If in 2018, they put a big ceremonial Russian hat on Lloris when he won, it would have been a nice authentic touch.
3) It's see through, and he was surrounded by ~23ish other players & Aguero all in the Argentinian strip.
I'm still offended Queen Elizabeth handed the trophy over in 1966 to be honest. Why does royalty need to be involved?
For people saying it ruined the picture. I don't know about you guys but imo this is as iconic a picture can get....
King !
King !
Some people on here think that Westerners are being Islamophobic and racist. Here's my issue with that take:
Racism is a form of intolerance and Western Culture is by nature supposed so be open and tolerant. One of the key tenets of Western Culture is that even if you don't agree with someone, they are able to express their own opinion and practice their own beliefs within reason. Westerners are never going to like foreign cultures that are not outwardly open or tolerant. Is Qatar an open and tolerant country?
Plus for me, racism should be described as an unjustified hatred of someone based on their race. Is Western opposition Qatar based on the fact that they are Arabs or is it because Westerners see them as propagating a closed and intolerant culture? There is the key question; if the answer is because Qatar is a closed and intolerant country, then I don't see how it could be described as racism.
Racism is a form of intolerance and Western Culture is by nature supposed so be open and tolerant. One of the key tenets of Western Culture is that even if you don't agree with someone, they are able to express their own opinion and practice their own beliefs within reason. Westerners are never going to like foreign cultures that are not outwardly open or tolerant. Is Qatar an open and tolerant country?
Plus for me, racism should be described as an unjustified hatred of someone based on their race. Is Western opposition Qatar based on the fact that they are Arabs or is it because Westerners see them as propagating a closed and intolerant culture? There is the key question; if the answer is because Qatar is a closed and intolerant country, then I don't see how it could be described as racism.
Is anyone outraged, triggered, or upset (three descriptors that have been used on the last page)? They don't seem to be, at least not in here. We're on a football forum discussing something that happened in the World Cup final. Is it not possible to have a normal conversation online without decrying people you disagree with as being hysterical?
Just to be devil's advocate, it's a team sport and Messi had already hogged the limelight.
I agree. It does seem fitting though after the world cup he just had that he gets 'crowned' at the end of it.
But yh, I do see the point in people saying that it shouldn't have been done. For Messi though, I think it's perfect. Although I do feel FIFA are loving it, especially when you get 'official' FIFA social media accounts claiming the 'GOAT' debate is now done. It seems as though FIFA want to milk Messi as much as possible before he retires before they move on to the next superstar. Mbappe ?
No, and when challenged directly it's people on Twitter they are talking about or the like. As if literally every opinion isn't found on Twitter. It's fertile ground for strawmen.
Adidas are creaming themselves too, the Golden Ball was created by them and Mbappe and Ronaldo are Nike athletes
It was a win-win of a final for Qatar given that 2 of the 3 of the PSG posterboys were not only playing in the final but had excellent overall games in the final. Although would they have put the bisht on Lloris as he was captaining France?
Thanks.
I was talking in the sense that FIFA are milking their superstar before he retires, if Ronaldo was up there they'd do the same. Messi, Ronaldo and now Mbappe bring the money in, they are the biggest draws in football and the reasons why it's become even more global. It's in the benefit of FIFA to hype their superstar and come to the next world cup, there won't be any Messi or Ronaldo and so they'd be giving GOAT shouts to Mbappe. It's in their best interest to hype up their current stars as much as possible...
In terms of Balon Do'r I'm pretty sure it was made by France Football (Journalists) not Adidas.
Of course not. Immediate, reflexive, & transparent defense mechanisms kick in at any criticism of the host nation.
The golden ball is the name of the award in the world cup that was given to Messi for being player of the tournament.
Completely different award.
Oh Ok, my bad. Thought you were alluding to the Balon Do'r. Yeah that makes sense.
I thought it was strange. I understand it has some sort or "Royal" meaning but for a National Teams tournament, surly the most important thing is the NT shirt and that must be front and centre. No matter the meaning or the intention, it was a mistake by both the organisers and by Messi to keep it on.
Just caught up with this thread, and had to laugh at the few comparisons made with Pele and the sombrero . Are people honestly trying to link the two together and say they are relevant?
. Are people honestly trying to link the two together and say they are relevant?Just noticed a couple of things in the "news"
a) putting the gown on Messi is against UEFA rules according to Ramon Vega, but they'll ignore that if it is true
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...ke-own-rules-Lionel-Messi-robe-World-Cup-news
b) UEFA are however not ignoring some people having "undue access" to the trophy after the game
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64071206
a) putting the gown on Messi is against UEFA rules according to Ramon Vega, but they'll ignore that if it is true
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...ke-own-rules-Lionel-Messi-robe-World-Cup-news
b) UEFA are however not ignoring some people having "undue access" to the trophy after the game
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64071206