Red in STL
Turnover not takeover
Given Chelsea's track record with managers don't bank on that assumption!Potter is at Chelsea, he's not going to leave that job after a few months to take over England.
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Given Chelsea's track record with managers don't bank on that assumption!Potter is at Chelsea, he's not going to leave that job after a few months to take over England.
"the likes of Belgium" includes others on that list like Italy who certainly do not have better players than England in 2022.I think the art of bottling and overrating the team is deeply ingrained into the English football soul and writing "against the likes of Belguim" is testament to that. Even more so since Belgium simply had the far better squad, when they beat England twice in 2018.
Look, I don't know what the Belgians did to you that you keep bringing them up in this way while butchering their name. Belgium had the better squad in 2018, then in 2020 they played twice again and both side got one win each. Which sounds as expected to me. England obviously had a bad Nation's League in 2022. But the WC afterwards went as well as one could expect. So I don't see the problem."the likes of Belguim" includes others on that list like Italy who certainly do not have better players than England in 2022.
England won 1 of 8 against Italy & Belguim... Not all the games against Bleguim were in 2018. And the last ones of that series had Italy featuring some Serie B players...
I find that hard to believe. He has had the easiest of draws in the tournaments and yet still relied on luck such as pens against Colombia. Any of the past England managers would have got that far with the same draws.But better managers haven’t got England anywhere near where Southgate has. They wouldn’t even have got us into the matches that Southgate allegedly cost us.
Good point. Penalties/shoot outs are so important these days. Two of them just won Argintina the world cup.I thought to myself last night after watching the likes of Messi and Mbappe slotting home their penalties comfortably under immense pressure that unless England fix their penalty woes once and for all they won't win anything ever. The advent of VAR and who knows what other form of technology Fifa have up their sleeves in future major tournaments mean that going forward we will see even more penalties being awarded. With the margins so tight in these latter-stage games scoring one is often the difference between glory and limping out like a dysfunctional penis.
This keeps getting said but if you look at results from 2008, this isn't true.I find that hard to believe. He has had the easiest of draws in the tournaments and yet still relied on luck such as pens against Colombia. Any of the past England managers would have got that far with the same draws.
Fair point, but the point I was trying to make was those managers in charge of this squad. We have a great set of talented players whose attributes just aren't being utilised to the full and I can't see Southgate changing his approach going forward.This keeps getting said but if you look at results from 2008, this isn't true.
Steve Mclaren
2008: Did not qualify
Capello:
WC 2010: scraped out of the group, finishing 2nd with Slovenia, Algeria and USA. Unfortunate with the Lampard goal vs Germany but outplayed and should have won the group for a much easier path.
Hodgson:
Euro 2012: completely outplayed by Italy hung on and lost on pens
WC 2014: out in the group stages
Euro 2016: knocked out by Iceland
We do have a better squad (not so much in 2018) but Capello, McClaren and Hodgson didn't even meet the minimum expectations of their squads.Fair point, but the point I was trying to make was those managers in charge of this squad. We have a great set of talented players whose attributes just aren't being utilised to the full and I can't see Southgate changing his approach going forward.
No no, according to another thread there's no skill in penalties, it's all luckI thought to myself last night after watching the likes of Messi and Mbappe slotting home their penalties comfortably under immense pressure that unless England fix their penalty woes once and for all they won't win anything ever. The advent of VAR and who knows what other form of technology Fifa have up their sleeves in future major tournaments mean that going forward we will see even more penalties being awarded. With the margins so tight in these latter-stage games scoring one is often the difference between glory and limping out like a dysfunctional penis.
Good Post.Its mad looking at the responses and the similarities between them and what was said when Ole was here. Th, e same “we’ve had world class managers before and look how that went” “if not Southgate who’s available”…
Southgate is actually at the point in his tenure that Ole was at the end of 2020/2021 too. Clear as day the reign has reached its conclusion but the powers that be and his punditry mates will continue to back him no questions asked. And just as it was under Ole, England will never ever win a trophy under this manager. This guy cocked up a home euros against an Italian side who couldn’t even qualify for the world cups either side of the euros. Which I’d mark as the equivalent of Ole cocking up the Europa Final.
Yeah wouldn't have the bottle to do itImagine Southgate making the changes Deschamps has made at 2-0 down
Generation wasted, completely wasted.
Yeah hard not to feel exactly thisMight as well not qualify for the Euros.
Will use Sterling after everybody else scores goals in the PL except him.
Dreadful manager and poor substitutions.
As a non English fan. So do I.I think England are doomed as long as Southgate manages them.
Me too, I think he should have gotten sacked before the WC.I think England are doomed as long as Southgate manages them.
Any England manager would have struggled NOT to win the games we have won in major tournaments under Southgate. It would be harder to lose them. We’ve not won a single game we shouldn’t have.But better managers haven’t got England anywhere near where Southgate has. They wouldn’t even have got us into the matches that Southgate allegedly cost us.
Plenty of England managers have lost meaningful games they shouldn’t have. Southgate hasn’t. This is just a fact.Any England manager would have struggled NOT to win the games we have won in major tournaments under Southgate. It would be harder to lose them. We’ve not won a single game we shouldn’t have.
Absolutely, but this is really on the FA and their mismanagement and eagerness to hand out a contract extension to someone who really isn’t capable of managing an exceptionally talented team.Big mistake keeping Southgate. The England team should be playing like France. England have brilliant players and they play like cowards. So defensive. They attack could be deadly. Saw a stat that out of the 24 matches they've played against the top 10. They've only won 4. How is he still in the job. Ireland could have made it to the semi with the run England had when they got knocked out by Croatia back then.
Not many have had three tournaments in a row with extremely favourable draws and lost to the first good team they met three times. This is just fact.Plenty of England managers have lost meaningful games they shouldn’t have. Southgate hasn’t. This is just a fact.
Because they haven’t made it to a good team on at least one occasion out of three.Not many have had three tournaments in a row with extremely favourable draws and lost to the first good team they met three times. This is just fact.
Well Southgate has demonstrably proven he isn’t capable regardless of the fact we once lost to Iceland. It isn’t a reason to stick by someone who repeatable demonstrates the same failings with regards to his own approach.Because they haven’t made it to a good team on at least one occasion out of three.
Fine, let’s play your silly little game. Who takes over. Give me names that aren’t utterly laughableWell Southgate has demonstrably proven he isn’t capable regardless of the fact we once lost to Iceland. It isn’t a reason to stick by someone who repeatable demonstrates the same failings with regards to his own approach.
You have to wonder if it’s his friends that are the ones defending him. He hasn’t done anything to suggest he is a good manager. Being a nice guy doesn’t make you a good boss. In fact the best managers I’ve ever had have been complete tossers. He is very bland, uncharismatic and tactically naive.was funny listening to Talksport go from "only Mbappe gets in our team, and even then is he really better than super Jack?" to "no shame in losing to the World champions"
now it seems they're completely split on Southgate between the ex players and non ex players
He is correct, though - you cannot keep on harking back to what happened with Iceland. The loss was terrible but you also have to remember that that England team was also terrible. Our midfield consisted of Rooney, Dier and Ali. Two of them aren't even midfielders. Rooney was pretty much done by that point, to make things worse. Dier has never been a good player; average at best. Ali - I can't remember whether he was good or not at this point. Either way, it is a terrible team.Fine, let’s play your silly little game. Who takes over. Give me names that aren’t utterly laughable
Forget about Iceland then, what the feck did Fabio Capello do with England? In the 3 years prior to joining England he’d won 2 Serie A and a La Liga. Can you name anyone with as good a track record as that on the market? Southgate has outperformed his level by magnitudes (pop pop)He is correct, though - you cannot keep on harking back to what happened with Iceland. The loss was terrible but you also have to remember that that England team was also terrible. Our midfield consisted of Rooney, Dier and Ali. Two of them aren't even midfielders. Rooney was pretty much done by that point, to make things worse. Dier has never been a good player; average at best. Ali - I can't remember whether he was good or not at this point. Either way, it is a terrible team.
This team is far stronger and, despite all the praise Southgate is getting, we are actually repeating the results that we have had throughout the 2000s and 90s. It isn't any different; it is just that we are facing the better sides deeper in the tournament; the expanded Euros certainly increased the odds of having weaker draws. We benefited from that in the last tournament.
Southgate is a championship-level manager, at best. There are plenty of managers who could repeat what he has done, at the minimum. He hasn't done this 'fantastic job' that everyone is thinking he has done. He has beaten sides that England are expected to beat, but he has not been able to win a single game that is anywhere near 50-50. In the end, there is a point where you need to accept that we are not going to do it with Southgate, so give someone else a chance. He has shown over three tournaments he cannot win against these sides, so it is pointless going on with it.
I have my doubts if Mourinho would be a massive upgrade for Portugal for International Football. Sure some of his weaknesses at club level wouldn't be a problem here but I don't know if having the capacity to choose the best players of a country he would keep the same approach he has at club level, how would his teams perform let's say against how Morocco setup on the knockout stages? I don't have a answer for that.This is why I feel that the idea that somebody like Tuchel or Mourinho would definitely do a lot more with this England squad is missing something.
Meh! Opting for one loser over another is still not trying to pick a winner.I think you could compare Southgate more to Sven. Neither grossly over achieved or under achieved.
Without looking into the different squads, I would have thought that this squad at the moment is younger than the teams Sven had.
If I could choose a manger since Sven to manage this current crop, I'd stick with Southgate easily to be honest.
His point was that any of the previous England managers would have done just as good a job which I don't think is true.Meh! Opting for one loser over another is still not trying to pick a winner.
Has Southgate done an excellent job in many aspects? Of course, but can he make us winners? The answer has to be no, and that's why it's pointless sticking with him imo.
Just a delaying of the inevitable unfortunately.
My biggest hope is that this team will improve to the point where they can win despite Southgate. Which isnt out of the question, as the standard of competition is looking increasingly poor to me.
I don't believe that either. Gareth has laid a foundation, and buit upon it in a manner that previous managers never didHis point was that any of the previous England managers would have done just as good a job which I don't think is true.
I would have preferred the FA try for Tuchel or Poch but I'm not devastated that Southgate is staying. I wouldn't back him to win Euro 2024 but I think he's capable of leading us to the title there, which ties to your last point. I think there have been many mediocre managers that have succeeded in international football and many good managers that have failed. The nature of these tournaments means that luck and timing can play a massive part in deciding the winners and the teams who flop.
As manager maybe Gareth does deserve the praise some have given him with regards to foundations being laid. I'm personally not convinced he has been the architect here.I don't believe that either. Gareth has laid a foundation, and buit upon it in a manner that previous managers never did
But what is it all for if it doesnt lead to the ultimate goal? Everything is there but the in game management.
As to your last point. True. But then so no more so than a timely substitution. Some say you can make your own luck at times.