Given that Grealish and Foden are better players in exactly the same position, it’s really irrelevant who the manager is.
England Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
But better managers haven’t got England anywhere near where Southgate has. They wouldn’t even have got us into the matches that Southgate allegedly cost us.
Is this true though? He got the job after brown nosing his way up the FA. He never achieved anything at club level or showed anything to warrant his current position. I understand winning anything as an international manager is extremely difficult but time and again, at key moments of tournaments when the top managers can be the difference between winning and losing, he has failed and failed miserably. If the majority of the nation questions your management, then perhaps there really is a problem.
He's the most successful England coach of all time, isn't he? So great news.
There's a few managers who are proven to be better managers than Southgate imo. Half the job is just team atmosphere so that's where he has done well to his credit. But in terms of English managers, if they can keep a good team atmosphere, Rodgers, Howe and Potter would all be no brainers ahead of him. I'd be tempted to go for Rooney ahead of him too, who would both command more respect, but has also been more impressive in club football, and seems to be a modern thinking manager.
It's time for a change. It's a long time to the next Euro's and even longer to the next WC, in that time, someone will become available. In the meantime, feck it, give it to the reserve coach.
He’s from Norn Ire…
Context and timing is important though.
If Potter was still at Brighton then fair enough and the same if Howe was a free agent (his stock wasn't all that high before Newcastle though).
Potter is at Chelsea, he's not going to leave that job after a few months to take over England.
Howe is at a team with near unlimited backing, in his first full season, no way would he leave Newcastle now.
Potter and Howe may well think that their current club situations may never be better but the chances of getting the England job in a few years time would come back up.
Howe and Potter are much more realistic choices after Euro 2024.
Can't say I'm surprised. I was amazed that he was allegedly considering walking away. No chance he gets a job with anything approaching the same prestige after the England gig.
Ah shit always forget
Unfortunately I strongly suspect that Southgate has learnt little from this tournament? It’ll be the same risk averse tactics, when we get to meet another big team in the Euros.
This. Exactly why I’m unsurprised you guys are sticking with Southgate for now.
Mental decision but expected by the FA. Can't wait to see which team will have the privilege of kicking England out in the QF or Semis 
Its mad looking at the responses and the similarities between them and what was said when Ole was here. The same “we’ve had world class managers before and look how that went” “if not Southgate who’s available”…
Southgate is actually at the point in his tenure that Ole was at the end of 2020/2021 too. Clear as day the reign has reached its conclusion but the powers that be and his punditry mates will continue to back him no questions asked. And just as it was under Ole, England will never ever win a trophy under this manager. This guy cocked up a home euros against an Italian side who couldn’t even qualify for the world cups either side of the euros. Which I’d mark as the equivalent of Ole cocking up the Europa Final.
Southgate — the first part of his surname, “south”, should have been a clue (just having fun!) — should be allowed to hang on for the next 6-9 months as no harm will be done by it, but going into the next Euros England will need a new manager and one who’s more tactically astute and willing to take risks.
England will not field the better XI against teams like France, Spain, Argentina and Brazil. They will be outmatched on talent. The next manager, 2-3 years from now, will need to have the tools to beat lesser sides (which Southgate has mastered) and better stronger sides by exploiting the opponents’ weaknesses and making brave in game decisions. I’m not as sure about Howe, but Potter is that man. At least that Englishman.
England will not field the better XI against teams like France, Spain, Argentina and Brazil. They will be outmatched on talent. The next manager, 2-3 years from now, will need to have the tools to beat lesser sides (which Southgate has mastered) and better stronger sides by exploiting the opponents’ weaknesses and making brave in game decisions. I’m not as sure about Howe, but Potter is that man. At least that Englishman.
England always fecks up. I mean the FA. They hired Roy when Harry would have been a better choice then. Surely they can approach many others who are better than Southgate? They should approach Jose. Pure entertainment of course and the England team would be always in the news. Isn't that what the FQA wants too? Now with a dour chap like Southgate, they are not entertaining on the pitch nor are they entertaining off the pitch.
How is Grealish conclusively the better player in your view?
Maddison has been outperforming him significantly at club level.
I didn't know success was defined by a single game in the NL.
5 wins in 13 in 2022. 
Can't wait for the inevitable failure at the Euros and for the same people to march out to his defense because he's leading a very fine generation of players into abject failure.
Can't wait for the inevitable failure at the Euros and for the same people to march out to his defense because he's leading a very fine generation of players into abject failure.
It’s usually determined by either the worst or most recent result on the caf. You should know this by now.
Fair enough. you win that argument.
What do you think of his record against decent and half decent teams? Surely England should expect a 40% win rate against the likes of Belguim…
Edit - wrong thread
I think the art of bottling and overrating the team is deeply ingrained into the English football soul and writing "against the likes of Belguim" is testament to that. Even more so since Belgium simply had the far better squad, when they beat England twice in 2018.
I remember how I felt when he was (reportedly) linked to the United job: horrified. Look, he seems a nice guy but that's about all. Which top nation would take him on: my guess is none and rightly so. Just not at a level to bring success
One is the main outlet for his team. The other is a cog in an extremely efficient machine. Have some context if you want to argue your point. Stats are meaningless without it.
For example: Mount outperformed Foden last season. By stats. But he isn’t better.
Imagine Southgate making the changes Deschamps has made at 2-0 down
Generation wasted, completely wasted.
Generation wasted, completely wasted.
England will never win anything with Southgate. He's too limited.
FA is a joke keeping him on.
FA is a joke keeping him on.
Seeing how France poor were in general play, makes it a shame that Southgate wasn't better with his tactical decisions. We have enough to outplay Argentina. It's a shame.
Messi would have destroyed us and there's no way in hell we would have gone for it in the same way as France and Argentina did. Just compare this final to the Euro final. The difference in attitude says it all.
French manager steps down, whereas we’re left with this arseole.
Didn't expect anything else from our FA.
Well I guess we're heading for yet another mediocre Euros, where we will go out to the first decent team we play.
Well I guess we're heading for yet another mediocre Euros, where we will go out to the first decent team we play.
You can bring any context you want into it, I like Grealish as a footballer but he hasn't had a good time at Man City. He's produced very, very little. So it doesn't really matter whether you want to look at stats or what they're producing for their sides in terms of game influencing performances. Grealish isn't really a cog, they could swap him for anyone on their transfer shortlist and not be worse off for it so I don't really know what you're talking about because every contextual piece of information should have Maddison at an advantage. What you actually mean is you prefer Grealish very subjectively because its not on performance or stats.
Let's be honest Gareth isn't bothered about either so it's not going to matter.
Fair play winners
Rightio, do you actually practise zen?
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I dunno if I agree with this, he certainly hasn't been eye catching at city. But when he is on the ball he sucks about 3 or 4 players towards him like a magnet because he's prepared to run into all of the zones they are defending. He's an incredibly useful player to have if you want to exert a bit of offensive pressure on an opponent, which is why it does sadden me when he is not used in this way for England and I'd also wager the primary reason that pep bought him. One of the notable times for England he was brought on with time to do this happened to be the England win against Germany, iirc. I just don't think it's coincedence, he swung that game in our favour that day. One of our only notable knockout wins under Southgate. Though tbf the way England dispatched Senegal was impressive.
And I really rate Maddison too, so this isn't a slight on maddison they just play in different ways.
People saying Southgate won nothing are in the mud.
Let’s be honest the “I’ll consider my position “ bullshit was exactly that, bullshit.
he’s not good enough and he never will be.
Worst news any England fan will hear in the next 2 years is that Southgate will stay on.