6 year old shoots teacher in Virginia

[calodo2003]

Is this child Stewey Griffen? It takes some level of intellect you don’t expect a 6-year old to have to go to all that trouble, premeditated, to plot, conceal and brandish at the opportune moment a gun intended to shoot a specific target.

There’s no such thing as reform when it comes to guns in a country that makes billions off of them, and this won’t change anything, but you have to wonder what kind of shockwaves this’ll send around parents and teachers alike when there’s potential for 6-year olds to legitimately threaten life.

The sheriff calling a child “young man” is just as surreal as the story itself.

That’s the way LE always describes young black males - in the context of adulthood, not their actual age of development.

 

[Arruda]

Can't impinge on the God given right to have grammar school kids do shit like this...

Still remember that.

Darwin award for that instructor, I'd say.

 

[Red in STL]

You are underrating children, I'm pretty sure I could do that at 6 years old. They're not 2 year old babies. I remember "plotting" stuff earlier than that. I'm sure when I was about 5 [I know it was pre-schooI] I stole a plastic butterfly and brought it home. It was a school item, not from another kid. When I was home I felt extremely guilty about it and had a terrible night (hence why I remember it). Not only guilty but afraid or the consequences, so I decided to put it amongst the things of another kid. From then on I don't remember how the issue was settled, but children at that age are clearly capable of plotting and executing.

As far as we know he can be the son of one of those idiots who starts training their kids to shoot as soon as they can walk, that would probably make it very easy for him to shoot the teacher. But even in the most likely scenario of that not being the case, he probably just used the element of surprise mixed with a lucky shot.

The location maybe a clue, Newport News is prime Navy country, wouldn't surprise me if there's a military connection

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

And the counter-argument is that if they're not loaded they're useless - which is true, there's but that's what will be saidno rational explanation IMO

The truth is if it's not on your person or within arm's reach it's also useless.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

The parents need to be fecking charged as accessories to murder and spend years in jail. New laws need to be put in place to, among many other things, severely punish gun owners that allow their weapons to be used either through negligence or carelessness.

An Australian type ban is never going to happen but much more sane gun restrictions and punishments are definitely possible if the Dems can get some gumption next time they control all three branches.

 

[Red in STL]

The parents need to be fecking charged as accessories to murder and spend years in jail. New laws need to be put in place to, among many other things, severely punish gun owners that allow their weapons to be used either through negligence or carelessness.

An Australian type ban is never going to happen but much more sane gun restrictions and punishments are definitely possible if the Dems can get some gumption next time they control all three branches.

Doesn't matter, the Supreme Court would throw anything they do out

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Doesn't matter, the Supreme Court would throw anything they do out

The Supreme Court can just eat shit in the same way they would do feck all after the House and the Senate voted to protect rights to marriage for LGBTQ+ people. It's time to go medieval on irresponsible gun owners.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Can't impinge on the God given right to have grammar school kids do shit like this...

My sister in law knew this guy I think. Real tragedy for all involved

 

[calodo2003]

My sister in law knew this guy I think. Real tragedy for all involved

Yeah, I don’t think any party involved comes back fully from something like that.

 

[Red in STL]

The Supreme Court can just eat shit in the same way they would do feck all after the House and the Senate voted to protect rights to marriage for LGBTQ+ people. It's time to go medieval on irresponsible gun owners.

LGBTQ+ ain't in the constitution, guns unfortunately are

 

[ExoduS]

Can't impinge on the God given right to have grammar school kids do shit like this...

I had my uncle and his friend teach me to shoot when I was 8. They were never standing next to me, but behind me. They also never (I think, my memory might be incorrect - it was long ago) completely let of the gun so I shoot completely unassisted. So how could two amateurs have more sense than a military guy!?

Anyhow, my uncle - great guy - did something stupid and unnecessary. There was no need to teach me to shoot at 8.

America just loves guns. The obsession with them is astounding. I like guns, but I never initiate conversation about them. It is just as I like scratching my balls for no reason when I watch sh1t on youtube. Not worth talking about it. But people here are just in total awe about guns. You can go to a gun show and buy a gun of a random person right there. All legal, no questions asked.

 

[WI_Red]

I won’t repeat my rant from the gun control thread here, so I’ll just say that this was yet another in a long string of needless and senseless acts of violence. The lives of multiple people will never be the same, all due to a single lump of metal that seems to mean more to my fellow countrymen than the life of a child, let alone an adult. Pathetic and shameful.

 

[Red in STL]

I won’t repeat my rant from the gun control thread here, so I’ll just say that this was yet another in a long string of needless and senseless acts of violence. The lives of multiple people will never be the same, all due to a single lump of metal that seems to mean more to my fellow countrymen than the life of a child, let alone an adult. Pathetic and shameful.

It strikes me as mad and odd that the very people who say that they have a god-given constitutional right to have a gun are often one of the vocal opponents of abortion - somehow the logic escapes me

 

[WI_Red]

It strikes me as mad and odd that the very people who say that they have a god-given constitutional right to have a gun are often one of the vocal opponents of abortion - somehow the logic escapes me

In general yes, but I have met many a “liberal” who is also a gun owner. Everyone believes they are a responsible gun owner and take all the possible precautions….until their 18 year old goes into the gun safe and gets a gun to kill himself (like my HS classmate did), or until they leave it out just that “one time” and burglars steal it, and it is then used to murder a random kid in a drive by (like another HS classmate was).

I grew up in a middle class, well to do town and yet by 18 two of my peers were dead by guns. How many Americans can honestly say that gun violence has not touched their lives in some way? Think about that, just think about the horrific absurdity of that.

 

[Red in STL]

In general yes, but I have met many a “liberal” who is also a gun owner. Everyone believes they are a responsible gun owner and take all the possible precautions….until their 18 year old goes into the gun safe and gets a gun to kill himself (like my HS classmate did), or until they leave it out just that “one time” and burglars steal it, and it is then used to murder a random kid in a drive by (like another HS classmate was).

I grew up in a middle class, well to do town and yet by 18 two of my peers were dead by guns. How many Americans can honestly say that gun violence has not touched their lives in some way? Think about that, just think about the horrific absurdity of that.

Not all liberals are anti-abortion eithe r- I'm not American either so I don't understand the need for people to have guns, other countries have guns in circulation and don't have the same issues as the US, why is that? Presumably it must be some kind of cultural thing but why and where does it come from?

 

[caid]

Not all liberals are anti-abortion eithe r- I'm not American either so I don't understand the need for people to have guns, other countries have guns in circulation and don't have the same issues as the US, why is that? Presumably it must be some kind of cultural thing but why and where does it come from?

Look at their tv shows and movies. The way they display and use guns is drastically different to cinema or tv in any other country. They fetishise them.

 

[utdalltheway]

It used not be tots and pears from the pols.

Is it tots with guns now?

 

[sglowrider]

Can't impinge on the God given right to have grammar school kids do shit like this...

The guy died for the cause of freedom and liberty to shoot people in case you are afraid. Another American hero bites the dust for the sake of the constitution.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Look at their tv shows and movies. The way they display and use guns is drastically different to cinema or tv in any other country. They fetishise them.

It's definitely culture and I believe that it's because of hundreds of years of the embedded frontier myth which I don't think Europeans that haven't lived in the Americas fully understand the influence. For hundreds of years into the 20th century, most land west of the Northeast seaboard (and even that area at points) was the frontier where guns were seen as necessary tools to, at times, hunt and protect the family from wild animals and bandits and robbers. Lawmen and rule of law during the 18th and 19th centuries, for example, very often just meant punishment for a criminal after the fact not active protection for a community. This is why many western tales feature revenge not protection stories. Even with the 21st century being a completely different era, the effect of that frontier myth still endures. I don't think people can really understand American gun obsession without looking at the embedded generational influence of the frontier myth.

In some communities even now, the notion that the law and law enforcement won't protect you persists - which is why I hear from both black and immigrant people I know that are otherwise very liberal/progressive that they have guns because "the police aren't going to protect me and my family from the white nationalists, and in many cases, the police will be there protecting the white nationalists." They see publicized instances of police going out of their way to protect neo-nazis and white nationalists meanwhile treating BLM protestors drastically differently and they simply don't feel safe unless they protect themselves because the police are not going to protect them. It really is a vicious circle that will take generations of effort to change.

 

[Red in STL]

It's definitely culture and I believe that it's because of hundreds of years of the embedded frontier myth which I don't think Europeans that haven't lived in the Americas fully understand the influence. For hundreds of years into the 20th century, most land west of the Northeast seaboard (and even that area at points) was the frontier where guns were seen as necessary tools to, at times, hunt and protect the family from wild animals and bandits and robbers. Lawmen and rule of law during the 18th and 19th centuries, for example, very often just meant punishment for a criminal after the fact not active protection for a community. This is why many western tales feature revenge not protection stories. Even with the 21st century being a completely different era, the effect of that frontier myth still endures. I don't think people can really understand American gun obsession without looking at the embedded generational influence of the frontier myth.

In some communities even now, the notion that the law and law enforcement won't protect you persists - which is why I hear from both black and immigrant people I know that are otherwise very liberal/progressive that they have guns because "the police aren't going to protect me and my family from the white nationalists, and in many cases, the police will be there protecting the white nationalists." They see publicized instances of police going out of their way to protect neo-nazis and white nationalists meanwhile treating BLM protestors drastically differently and they simply don't feel safe unless they protect themselves because the police are not going to protect them. It really is a vicious circle that will take generations of effort to change.

I'm British, lived in the US for more than a decade and still don't understand it and probably never will.

Thing is, shootings or the "notorious" variety are almost always white males, gun advocates always point to shootings in Chicago, New York, LA and other big cities by non-whites, of course that's not good, but what they don't tell you is that as a % of population the highest gun death rates are actual in rural America which is mostly white

 

[caid]

It's definitely culture and I believe that it's because of hundreds of years of the embedded frontier myth which I don't think Europeans that haven't lived in the Americas fully understand the influence. For hundreds of years into the 20th century, most land west of the Northeast seaboard (and even that area at points) was the frontier where guns were seen as necessary tools to, at times, hunt and protect the family from wild animals and bandits and robbers. Lawmen and rule of law during the 18th and 19th centuries, for example, very often just meant punishment for a criminal after the fact not active protection for a community. This is why many western tales feature revenge not protection stories. Even with the 21st century being a completely different era, the effect of that frontier myth still endures. I don't think people can really understand American gun obsession without looking at the embedded generational influence of the frontier myth.

In some communities even now, the notion that the law and law enforcement won't protect you persists - which is why I hear from both black and immigrant people I know that are otherwise very liberal/progressive that they have guns because "the police aren't going to protect me and my family from the white nationalists, and in many cases, the police will be there protecting the white nationalists." They see publicized instances of police going out of their way to protect neo-nazis and white nationalists meanwhile treating BLM protestors drastically differently and they simply don't feel safe unless they protect themselves because the police are not going to protect them. It really is a vicious circle that will take generations of effort to change.

I'd want a gun if i was living in America to be honest. Theres no easy or quick way back I guess but will they ever reach a point were they start reversing course? Because that doesn't seem to be happening looking from the outside. Consumerism seems to have supercharged it to some extent

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

Ffs, In what world does this makes sense? Shoot an auto rifle and have a burger, as a day out with the kids?
Nothing about this topic should surprise me, but every photo or video that springs about just beggars belief.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I'm British, lived in the US for more than a decade and still don't understand it and probably never will.

Thing is, shootings or the "notorious" variety are almost always white males, gun advocates always point to shootings in Chicago, New York, LA and other big cities by non-whites, of course that's not good, but what they don't tell you is that as a % of population the highest gun death rates are actual in rural America which is mostly white

I had a history professor who wrote a book on the frontier. Understanding it doesn't make it any better, unfortunately. I don't think those types of stats will really matter to anyone that has already made up their mind.

I'd want a gun if i was living in America to be honest. Theres no easy or quick way back I guess but will they ever reach a point were they start reversing course? Because that doesn't seem to be happening looking from the outside. Consumerism seems to have supercharged it to some extent

The best to hope for, IMO, is incremental change over the years with more and more sane gun control laws coming into play. Hopefully the Dems can win in 2024 and Clarence Thomas will "go to Alaska" so the Supreme Court ratio can improve to something more manageable.

 

[Acheron]

Can't impinge on the God given right to have grammar school kids do shit like this...

This technically should be a suicide but still the poor little girl has been traumatized thanks to some idiots.

 

[Red in STL]

I had a history professor who wrote a book on the frontier. Understanding it doesn't make it any better, unfortunately. I don't think those types of stats will really matter to anyone that has already made up their mind.



The best to hope for, IMO, is incremental change over the years with more and more sane gun control laws coming into play. Hopefully the Dems can win in 2024 and Clarence Thomas will "go to Alaska" so the Supreme Court ratio can improve to something more manageable.

They never managed anything when there was a Dem majority in the SC, beside it's too late now, there are far more guns than people, the only ways guns disappear in America is if The Walking Dead becomes reality!

 

[R0nald0]

Ooooooh, right in the virginia

 

[Red in STL]

I'd want a gun if i was living in America to be honest. Theres no easy or quick way back I guess but will they ever reach a point were they start reversing course? Because that doesn't seem to be happening looking from the outside. Consumerism seems to have supercharged it to some extent

99.9% of people don't need one, outside of law enforcement or military it's not likely you'll see one, in more than a decade here I haven't, but then I guess it depends on where you are, in anything other than a very small town/city it's not very likely

As for reversing course, it's almost impossible, as soon as you put anything other than minor restrictions the courts will over rule it based on the constitution, just yesterday than ban on bump stocks was ruled illegal, the whole purpase of a bump stock is basically to turn a semi-automatic in to a fully automatic, and the latter is actually outlawed but gthere are substantial numers who think that any firearm should be legal to own!

 

[WI_Red]

I'd want a gun if i was living in America to be honest. Theres no easy or quick way back I guess but will they ever reach a point were they start reversing course? Because that doesn't seem to be happening looking from the outside. Consumerism seems to have supercharged it to some extent

Why would you want or need a gun?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

They never managed anything when there was a Dem majority in the SC, beside it's too late now, there are far more guns than people, the only ways guns disappear in America is if The Walking Dead becomes reality!

There hasn't been a liberal majority in the Supreme Court since at least the Reagan Presidency and that was a different era. Also, guns not "disappearing" is not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about more sane gun control laws like closing the gun show/private sale loophole, restricting firearms access to a much larger population (such as domestic violence, animal abuse, and other proven high-risk categories), increasing punishment for gun owners whose children/friends get access to their firearms, potential ammunition controls, etc. All of those have majority support and are well within the realm of possibility with just a few shifts in congress and 1-2 SC justice changes (Thomas and Alito). There's a lot of room between where things are now and banning all guns ("libs taking away all muh guns") for incremental improvements.

Actually it was probably even further back that there was a liberal majority on the SC (Warren Court) because the Burger court was probably more accurately centrist.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Why would you want or need a gun?

I'll paraphrase the answer I've heard from friends "because the police aren't protecting my family or community from white nationalists that drive around in war wagons toting their firearms."

Not saying I personally agree with that, but it's what I hear from gun owners from communities of color and even some LGBT+ individuals.

 

[WI_Red]

I'll paraphrase the answer I've heard from friends "because the police aren't protecting my family or community from white nationalists that drive around in war wagons toting their firearms."

Not saying I personally agree with that, but it's what I hear from gun owners from communities of color and even some LGBT+ individuals.

If their safety is that important to them they better:

Stop drinking
Eat only healthy food
Get screened for all cancer biomarkers
Exercise

Each of the above will improve their chance of survival far more than owning a gun. If they are not doing the above they are full of shit.

 

[Red in STL]

There hasn't been a Dem majority in the Supreme Court since the Reagan Presidency and that was a different era. Also, guns not "disappearing" is not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about more sane gun control laws like closing the gun show/private sale loophole, restricting firearms access to a much larger population (such as domestic violence, animal abuse, and other proven high-risk categories), increasing punishment for gun owners whose children/friends get access to their firearms, potential ammunition controls, etc. All of those have majority support and are well within the realm of possibility with just a few shifts in congress and 1-2 SC justice changes (Thomas and Alito). There's a lot of room between where things are now and banning all guns ("libs taking away all muh guns") for incremental improvements.

The loopholes tend to be State laws not Federal and most states are never going to change them, the lawmakers want to remain lawmakers and there are more Republican states than Democrat, as for the Reagan era, there were even more firearm related deaths in those days!

Over half of all firearm related deaths are suicide, the kids gaining access is pretty small in reality and sentences for that are already pretty severe, most of the mass shootings usually end with gunman dead or life without parole in jail

Anyone convicted of a felony is supposed to be banned from owning a gun

The reality is that it needs a bi-partizan approach but there isn't a big enough incentive for enough politicians to make it happen, no politician in a rural state or large ones like Texas or Florida will ever win an election statewide if they propose or implement serious gun control laws

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just read that the kid is apparently in custody. That seems a bit mad. Does anyone have any idea what can and can’t be done when it comes to arresting/prosecuting someone this young?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

If their safety is that important to them they better:

Stop drinking
Eat only healthy food
Get screened for all cancer biomarkers
Exercise

Each of the above will improve their chance of survival far more than owning a gun. If they are not doing the above they are full of shit.

I can appreciate where you are going with this but I don't think someone has to never touch alcohol to feel the way they do about having a shotgun in the house to protect themselves when they have the lived experience of being black or LGBT+ and living/growing up in certain areas. And I do have one friend that matches all of the above as well - so would you approve of him owning a gun?

The loopholes tend to be State laws not Federal and most states are never going to change them, the lawmakers want to remain lawmakers and there are more Republican states than Democrat, as for the Reagan era, there were even more firearm related deaths in those days!

Over half of all firearm related deaths are suicide, the kids gaining access is pretty small in reality and sentences for that are already pretty severe, most of the mass shootings usually end with gunman dead or life without parole in jail

Anyone convicted of a felony is supposed to be banned from owning a gun

The reality is that it needs a bi-partizan approach but there isn't a big enough incentive for enough politicians to make it happen, no politician in a rural state or large ones like Texas or Florida will ever win an election statewide if they propose or implement serious gun control laws

Federal laws could be enacted for most of the things I mentioned (Federal background checks, Federal limits on domestic violence/animal abuse, etc). Punishment would have to come from the states yes and sure, there are some states that double down on gun ownership but we can only try to change what we can change and slow and incremental changes are the best we have to hope for.

And from looking at a quick SC roster over the years, the last truly liberal court was the Warren Court in 1969.

Oh and a lot of domestic violence and animal cruelty charges are misdemeanors not felonies so that's where the room for improved restrictions comes.

 

[WI_Red]

I can appreciate where you are going with this but I don't think someone has to never touch alcohol to feel the way they do about having a shotgun in the house to protect themselves when they have the lived experience of being black or LGBT+ and living/growing up in certain areas. And I do have one friend that matches all of the above as well - so would you approve of him owning a gun?

Honestly, no. I know my post was hyperbolic, but there are few positions I hold as radically as my anti-gun (especially handgun) stance. The change has to start somewhere, and until we as a society realize it needs to start with us we will be forever amidst a growing wave of death and horror. The selfish need to feel safe, at the expense of the actual safety of others, is so profoundly American it should be our new motto, and the AR-15 our new symbol.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I can appreciate where you are going with this but I don't think someone has to never touch alcohol to feel the way they do about having a shotgun in the house to protect themselves when they have the lived experience of being black or LGBT+ and living/growing up in certain areas. And I do have one friend that matches all of the above as well - so would you approve of him owning a gun?

All available evidence shows you’re safer not owning a gun than you are owning a gun. So if your friend is worried about their safety then buying a gun is a bad idea.

 

[Tincanalley]

Utter insanity. A six year old should never touch a lethal weapon

 

[Tincanalley]

I know this is a European forum. I have been to US but that thing about the ‘right to bear arms’ … makes no sense. None. it’s interesting when I hear old stories about the War of Independence here, followed by Civil War. Place was full of weapons. The attendees at the first Parliament took along guns. But all agreed the ultimate aim was a peace which included an unarmed police force. Sanity prevailed.

It’s incredibly spooky that not even an endless string of tragedies have impacted public opinion there. John Wayne is real to some people.

 

[Red in STL]

I can appreciate where you are going with this but I don't think someone has to never touch alcohol to feel the way they do about having a shotgun in the house to protect themselves when they have the lived experience of being black or LGBT+ and living/growing up in certain areas. And I do have one friend that matches all of the above as well - so would you approve of him owning a gun?



Federal laws could be enacted for most of the things I mentioned (Federal background checks, Federal limits on domestic violence/animal abuse, etc). Punishment would have to come from the states yes and sure, there are some states that double down on gun ownership but we can only try to change what we can change and slow and incremental changes are the best we have to hope for.

And from looking at a quick SC roster over the years, the last truly liberal court was the Warren Court in 1969.

Oh and a lot of domestic violence and animal cruelty charges are misdemeanors not felonies so that's where the room for improved restrictions comes.

Most of those federal things you mention are in place already, the problem is that state laws tend to have precedent first and then double jeopardy usually applies, some states have doubled down but they will likely lose if anyone takes them to the SC over it, NY had a 100 year old law struck down recently as being illegal

I don't disagree with you, I'm just realistic, if nothing is done vis-a-vis the school shootings over the last decade or so then nothing real will get done full stop.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Most of those federal things you mention are in place already, the problem is that state laws tend to have precedent first and then double jeopardy usually applies, some states have doubled down but they will likely lose if anyone takes them to the SC over it, NY had a 100 year old law struck down recently as being illegal

I don't disagree with you, I'm just realistic, if nothing is done vis-a-vis the school shootings over the last decade or so then nothing real will get done full stop.

I'd agree that it's hard to see a lot being done right at the moment but I do see potential conditions where things could get done in the coming 8-10 years (although the Dems would need to win in 2024 and the public would have to push for it to happen).

All available evidence shows you’re safer not owning a gun than you are owning a gun. So if your friend is worried about their safety then buying a gun is a bad idea.

Generalized statistics aren't going to sway anyone in specific circumstances, for example, someone that lives alone, doesn't do drugs and alcohol, and keeps firearms locked up in a gun safe is not going to look at such general stats and be swayed.

Honestly, no. I know my post was hyperbolic, but there are few positions I hold as radically as my anti-gun (especially handgun) stance. The change has to start somewhere, and until we as a society realize it needs to start with us we will be forever amidst a growing wave of death and horror. The selfish need to feel safe, at the expense of the actual safety of others, is so profoundly American it should be our new motto, and the AR-15 our new symbol.

Again, I personally don't disagree with you but I'm not one of the ones that has to be convinced. People like the NFAC (or at least sympathetic to them) are the ones you'd have to get on board for broader support for gun control. If the arguments made here aren't convincing for people I know personally to "give up their guns" and they even support some of the restrictions and limitations that I have brought up to them, I don't see these points convincing the NFAC who are even more determined in their beliefs than my personal friends.