NM
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That might actually be dangerous. If Serie A and La Liga merge, it will be a blockbuster.A super league with just Italien and Spanish clubs, sounds fun
That might actually be dangerous. If Serie A and La Liga merge, it will be a blockbuster.A super league with just Italien and Spanish clubs, sounds fun
So you're arguing for a closed super league, the aim of which is to pitch the same 'big' teams against each other every year, by stating that repetitiveness is boring?
I don't argue for a closed super league. The first format that was proposed was awful. Of course that league needs to be open with relegations. Also those teams won't leave their domestic leagues, but the SL should be a substitute to the CL if I understand it correctly. The SL would cut out the useless and corrupt middlemen uefa that takes 330m for itself every season and promote better games instead of playing half your CL games against for example weaker east european sides, so the top clubs receive more money and that would make the gap smaller.And you don’t think it’s boring that under a SL it would be the same teams playing each other several times a year?
Madrid and Barca always payed with their own, earned money. If they take a credit, they have to pay it back with their own money.you guys in the Spanish leagues have had the advantage over everyone for years. Tapping up players with nothing happening, royal bail outs, FIFA presidents speaking out to influence transfers, taking and hoarding the best players because you can.
more money might be in the premier league but you can’t honestly say that we’ve been hoarding the best players in the world. They’ve still been going to Spain or Italy (in the past) as their primary choice. Even the best players we’ve had generally bugger off to Spain after a few years. We usually only get cast offs once you’re done with them.
so don’t give us that crap about PL teams having the advantage.
That's another topic. I'm not talking about Bartomeu's mismanagement here, but the general situation.Barca are in the shit now because of bad financial management. You haven’t had a lack of money, you’ve stockpiled players on ridiculous contracts and it’s come home to bite finally. This is a period now where you have to work through some sort of plan to get out of it but expecting other teams to join in a money grab is morally wrong
I get that you’re defending your own team but the big 2 in Spain haven’t given a shit about any other team in their own leagues never mind anywhere else. They’ve both behaved arrogantly. Which is probably why there is so little sympathy nowI don't argue for a closed super league. The first format that was proposed was awful. Of course that league needs to be open with relegations. Also those teams won't leave their domestic leagues, but the SL should be a substitute to the CL if I understand it correctly. The SL would cut out the useless and corrupt middlemen uefa that takes 330m for itself every season and promote better games instead of playing half your CL games against for example weaker east european sides, so the top clubs receive more money and that would make the gap smaller.
Madrid and Barca always payed with their own, earned money. If they take a credit, they have to pay it back with their own money.
You don't need to like it, but you can't deny it. Now, many PL teams pay with outside money, provided by their sugar daddies, not generated by football. It's like comparing a kid who worked the whole day to be able to buy a toy and he even took a loan to be able to afford it, while the other kid just asks his father and gets most of the toys he wants. That's the current situation.
I understand your position, that in the last decade you had to see how most of the best players went to spain and now you feel some justice, revenge whatever. But that was a fair market without big investors, without outside money. Clubs spent whatever they earned or had to take a loan, nothing unfair in that.
It's a whole new situation nowadays with outside money ruling football. And without a better money distribution between all the topclubs, I see the PL become an irreversible SL and all the excitement about european competition will stop. The CL only became so big and exciting, because it meant something to beat the best teams from other countries. If one country will take over european football, then nobody will care anymore. Whats the point of a european competition, if it's dominated by one country?
Of course it's not like that yet, because you can still argue that Madrid and sometimes Bayern wins the CL now and then, but every time it feels more and more lucky/undeserved, at least in my opinion. Last year Madrid were the worse side in every match against the PL teams, but had thankfully Benzema in the form of his life. The trend is dangerous. Juventus, Madrid, Barca and Bayern struggle a lot to keep up and that will worsen year after year. We can still pull players thanks to our big names in Spain, Bayern still gets some cheap good german players because of their monopoly there. But that won't last forever if the gap continues to grow and more sheikhs with more outside money buy themselves into the english football.
That's another topic. I'm not talking about Bartomeu's mismanagement here, but the general situation.
A fair market where only two teams in the league get split the majority of TV money between them?I understand your position, that in the last decade you had to see how most of the best players went to spain and now you feel some justice, revenge whatever. But that was a fair market without big investors, without outside money. Clubs spent whatever they earned or had to take a loan, nothing unfair in that.
They’ll eventually get it. There’s a super league starting next year in Africa. I can see other continents getting in on the action soon enough. Asia has been rumoured to be considering one.Fatboy really isn't giving up on the super league
It’s literally the only way Barcelona can get out of this hole. The thing is, the super league would have gone a head if JP Morgan would have put up more cash than they originally did, that’s why these cnuts are still pushing for it.Fatboy really isn't giving up on the super league
Not true at all. They’ll be out of the hole by this time next year. Have one of the best attendances in Europe which goes a long way. Need to do better in CL next year and are on top of the table right nowIt’s literally the only way Barcelona can get out of this hole. The thing is, the super league would have gone a head if JP Morgan would have put up more cash than they originally did, that’s why these cnuts are still pushing for it.
On top of the tableWhere the feck those Barca fans in FDJ transfer thread last Summer, who said everything was rosy under their lord and savior Laporta?
What?Not true at all. They’ll be out of the hole by this time next year. Have one of the best attendances in Europe which goes a long way. Need to do better in CL next year and are on top of the table right now
2nd you mean?On top of the table
Barcelona literally spent money they didn't had and Real has done some shaddy business with the government always bailing them out.I don't argue for a closed super league. The first format that was proposed was awful. Of course that league needs to be open with relegations. Also those teams won't leave their domestic leagues, but the SL should be a substitute to the CL if I understand it correctly. The SL would cut out the useless and corrupt middlemen uefa that takes 330m for itself every season and promote better games instead of playing half your CL games against for example weaker east european sides, so the top clubs receive more money and that would make the gap smaller.
Madrid and Barca always payed with their own, earned money. If they take a credit, they have to pay it back with their own money.
You don't need to like it, but you can't deny it. Now, many PL teams pay with outside money, provided by their sugar daddies, not generated by football. It's like comparing a kid who worked the whole day to be able to buy a toy and he even took a loan to be able to afford it, while the other kid just asks his father and gets most of the toys he wants. That's the current situation.
I understand your position, that in the last decade you had to see how most of the best players went to spain and now you feel some justice, revenge whatever. But that was a fair market without big investors, without outside money. Clubs spent whatever they earned or had to take a loan, nothing unfair in that.
It's a whole new situation nowadays with outside money ruling football. And without a better money distribution between all the topclubs, I see the PL become an irreversible SL and all the excitement about european competition will stop. The CL only became so big and exciting, because it meant something to beat the best teams from other countries. If one country will take over european football, then nobody will care anymore. Whats the point of a european competition, if it's dominated by one country?
Of course it's not like that yet, because you can still argue that Madrid and sometimes Bayern wins the CL now and then, but every time it feels more and more lucky/undeserved, at least in my opinion. Last year Madrid were the worse side in every match against the PL teams, but had thankfully Benzema in the form of his life. The trend is dangerous. Juventus, Madrid, Barca and Bayern struggle a lot to keep up and that will worsen year after year. We can still pull players thanks to our big names in Spain, Bayern still gets some cheap good german players because of their monopoly there. But that won't last forever if the gap continues to grow and more sheikhs with more outside money buy themselves into the english football.
That's another topic. I'm not talking about Bartomeu's mismanagement here, but the general situation.
not sure what table you’re reading and what other clown takes you have but Barca are on top of the table. Keep your tail between your legs as you struggle to make CL.2nd you mean?
Quick, someone get Barcelona the “we’re 2nd in the league 15 games into the season” trophy and the huge cash prize to go with it.
Really? I don't remember Barcelona, Real Madrid etc caring when rest of European football was eaten alive by clubs like yours. You are part of elite, you are no freedom fighters. And I don't really think fans of clubs from 50+ European countries really see you as their representative. Rest of Europe as you call it. There's no rest of Europe, there is actually, but Barcelona isn't part of that group.Of course it is a money grab. No one is hiding it. Perez, Laporta and Agnelli said it several times. How can other european teams compete with the current money flow you guys have in the PL? You get 3 times the tv money and many of your clubs are owned by billionaires. If the rest of europe doesn't respond to that trend in some way, the PL becomes the SL. Or do you expect the other european teams just to roll over and be simply training facilities for the big PL clubs?
Having every year 3 out of 4 CL semifinalists from the PL + PSG or having to watch City - Liverpool 6 times a season doesn't excite the common fan. Repetitiveness is boring but if nothing happens, then that will soon be the reality of european football.
No way, it's gonna take more time.Not true at all. They’ll be out of the hole by this time next year. Have one of the best attendances in Europe which goes a long way. Need to do better in CL next year and are on top of the table right now
Nobody is gonna be relevant if the benchmark is consistent ucl semi final appearances. Just winning la liga for the first time in 3-4 years would he massive. We definitely have our work cut out for us but saying it’ll take a decade is a bit of nonsense. Barca still have massive pull so that’ll really help.No way, it's gonna take more time.
Barcelona was already kinda mediocre in the last 2 seasons when Messi was there.
It was just overlooked because GOAT was carrying them with his brilliance, now they don't have anyone to carry them when they play like shit, and their mediocrity is getting more exposed.
It's gonna take way more time to rebuild this mess, signing one big star is not gonna solve it.
And the likes of Pedri and Gavi looked underwhelming in the UCL, their 'amazing' form has been mostly in La Liga.
It's gonna take at least a decade for Barca to become relevant again in the UCL (reaching semifinals very often).
Yeah. 2024 LaLiga2 table.On top of the table
No. Barcelona for next year has to reduce its wage bill. If you don't, you will get out of the 1/1 rule. And levers can no longer be used because the regulations changed.Wait their wage budget is €120m for the whole squad for the year? Sorry but la liga’s rules are lunacy, if the same was applied by the premier league 18 of the teams wouldn’t be meeting their targets. At this point, this is actively damaging Barca’s competitiveness.
Barcelona is much better economically than last year and finishing this one even better. At the end of this next season Barcelona will have to lower the wage bill.If anybody has any symphay for them then they’re idiots. Oh they need to win, they haven’t had a chance to win anything yet to justify the spend and they’re already in worse financial trouble
Have you seen their Financial mess? They should have a smaller budget
Gross debt is over €1,050M and net debt at €608M.Their debt was 1.3 billion last year. If anything the rules were too lax to allow themselves to nearly bankrupt the club in the recent past. Look how they reacted to that situation. I’m shocked they’re even allowed to buy anybody and the board should be arrested for the levers they pulled last summer.
Sorry, Christmas has been hardWhere are the Barca lads? Got awfully quiet in here. They were giving it large about ‘levers’ over the summer. No problem they said.
Yes, Barcelona will be fine but will have little to spend next year. It is what there is and also begins the remodeling of the stadium.I don't believe it, the Barcelona experts here told us it was fine.
Seems the table I looked at was from yesterday before Barca played, but I’ve seen the updated table now and seeing as you’re level on points at the top with Madrid 15 games into the season, I’d like to sincerely apologise as it’s clear that there’s no point in playing any of the remaining games as Barcelona are already champions.not sure what table you’re reading and what other clown takes you have but Barca are on top of the table. Keep your tail between your legs as you struggle to make CL.
Leagues over mate, they’ve won it.Yeah. 2024 LaLiga2 table.
They might have the pull but don’t have the money to pay a transfer fee and then the appropriate wages for the players. Current players have been mistreated over wages, fans on FDJ back for not taking a wage cut to help the club out all while they sign more and more players instead of fixing the financial situation.Nobody is gonna be relevant if the benchmark is consistent ucl semi final appearances. Just winning la liga for the first time in 3-4 years would he massive. We definitely have our work cut out for us but saying it’ll take a decade is a bit of nonsense. Barca still have massive pull so that’ll really help.
Don't you think there's a gap between qualifying for UCL semi finals and loosing 2 years in a row in the group stage, especially after recruiting like crazy during the last transfer window?Nobody is gonna be relevant if the benchmark is consistent ucl semi final appearances. Just winning la liga for the first time in 3-4 years would he massive. We definitely have our work cut out for us but saying it’ll take a decade is a bit of nonsense. Barca still have massive pull so that’ll really help.
I dont. It was boring, cynical shit when it was the strongest league in europe. Could barely watch it then, think you'd have to be crazy to be watching it nowDon't you think there's a gap between qualifying for UCL semi finals and loosing 2 years in a row in the group stage, especially after recruiting like crazy during the last transfer window?
Also, nobody is naive about the current level of La Liga, we see the games. It's bad, the worst I've seen in 20 years.
I actually liked La Liga very much in the prime Messi/Ronaldo/Atletico era, lots of fun games.I dont. It was boring, cynical shit when it was the strongest league in europe. Could barely watch it then, think you'd have to be crazy to be watching it now
The games between Real and Barca when Mourinho was in charge totally put me off. Thought they were amongst the worst matches ive ever seenI actually liked La Liga very much in the prime Messi/Ronaldo/Atletico era, lots of fun games.
Now far less, all the offensive talent is pretty much gone.
The ruling is unlikely to outright ban the ESL. The court will certainly say that UEFA can expel clubs from its competitions if they start a Super League. What UEFA needs now is a ruling to allow them (UEFA and FIFA) to make players participating in the SL ineligible for international football with their respective national teams. Without this ruling, the super league is likely to become a reality at some point. It is only a matter of time before the top German and French clubs (and the rest of Italy and Spain) come to the same conclusion as the three clubs currently pushing for the creation of the super league.As we said at the time, the super league is nothing but a money grab and chance to bail big clubs out who have spent beyond their means. I hope it gets refused again
No. I do not know about the french clubs - but forget the German clubs.The ruling is unlikely to outright ban the ESL. The court will certainly say that UEFA can expel clubs from its competitions if they start a Super League. What UEFA needs now is a ruling to allow them (UEFA and FIFA) to make players participating in the SL ineligible for international football with their respective national teams. Without this ruling, the super league is likely to become a reality at some point. It is only a matter of time before the top German and French clubs (and the rest of Italy and Spain) come to the same conclusion as the three clubs currently pushing for the creation of the super league.
Agree with you completely. La liga is in a terrible state and back to back Europa appearances is pretty pathetic. But I do think it’ll be sooner than a decade before Barca get a semi finals appearance. Very few if any teams make 3 semi finals in a row or something lately. I do think the team is better than they were a year ago where even top 4 in la liga was far from certain.Don't you think there's a gap between qualifying for UCL semi finals and loosing 2 years in a row in the group stage, especially after recruiting like crazy during the last transfer window?
Also, nobody is naive about the current level of La Liga, we see the games. It's bad, the worst I've seen in 20 years.
the arrogant one here is you running your mouth over nothing. United would be third if they were in la liga. Good luck with selling the club!Seems the table I looked at was from yesterday before Barca played, but I’ve seen the updated table now and seeing as you’re level on points at the top with Madrid 15 games into the season, I’d like to sincerely apologise as it’s clear that there’s no point in playing any of the remaining games as Barcelona are already champions.
Good news also, you’ll get to play your customary 6 games in the CL next season because your league is void of all competition, that’s if the club hasn’t been completely stripped of all its assets in the summer. At least you’ve got more levers to look forward to!
They should find a way to sell Barcelona fan arrogance, you’d be the richest club in the universe.
There's only 1 french club that can consistently play a CL level competiton and it is STRONGLY against any kind of superleague. And it doesn't really need the money anyway.No. I do not know about the french clubs - but forget the German clubs.
Hope things in the new year are better!No. Barcelona for next year has to reduce its wage bill. If you don't, you will get out of the 1/1 rule. And levers can no longer be used because the regulations changed.
With the rules of the FFP of the Spanish league no club in the top 6 could sign anything, I said it last year.
Barcelona is much better economically than last year and finishing this one even better. At the end of this next season Barcelona will have to lower the wage bill.
Gross debt is over €1,050M and net debt at €608M.
And at the end of the season the debt will be much lower thanks to the levers. Next season without the levers Barcelona will have to lower the wage bill.
Sorry, Christmas has been hard
Yes, Barcelona will be fine but will have little to spend next year. It is what there is and also begins the remodeling of the stadium.
No. I do not know about the french clubs - but forget the German clubs.
Initially, it seemed that the primary motive of the ESL was to bail out poorly-run clubs like Barcelona and Juventus. It's true that between 2014 and 2020, both Juventus and especially Barcelona spent far beyond their means, and the Covid crisis hit them too soon and crushed their unrealistic business model.There's only 1 french club that can consistently play a CL level competiton and it is STRONGLY against any kind of superleague. And it doesn't really need the money anyway.
A europe wide league containing Dutch, Portuguese, Italian and other teams could potentially be brilliant and i'd welcome it. Just not if the only point is to enrich barca and real so they can compete with oil states.The ruling is unlikely to outright ban the ESL. The court will certainly say that UEFA can expel clubs from its competitions if they start a Super League. What UEFA needs now is a ruling to allow them (UEFA and FIFA) to make players participating in the SL ineligible for international football with their respective national teams. Without this ruling, the super league is likely to become a reality at some point. It is only a matter of time before the top German and French clubs (and the rest of Italy and Spain) come to the same conclusion as the three clubs currently pushing for the creation of the super league.
In about two to three years, the Premier League's total revenue is expected to be worth more than the combined revenues of all the other top four leagues (including Real Madrid, Barcelona, Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern Munich, and Juventus). England has had an advantage in terms of money since Abu Dhabi bought Manchester City and instructed Abu Dhabi Sports to buy the Premier League's TV rights for the MENA region for a record price. Since then, these rights have skyrocketed, and the US and European markets have followed suit. Viaplay's deal for north Europe is ridiculously high and the marketing of the PL in here is killing our local leagues slowly... The gap between the Premier League and the other top four leagues has been steadily increasing and is now reaching unprecedented levels.
The other top four leagues will have to either accept a decline similar to what smaller leagues (such as the Portuguese and Dutch leagues) experienced after the Bosman ruling, or join forces in some sort of SL to try to keep pace with the Premier League.
Germans and french support their local clubs no matter what, same in Brazil and Argentina, just because the league is shit it doesn't mean they are gonna stop watching their own league, and wear an english jersey and sing chants for Liverpool or City.Initially, it seemed that the primary motive of the ESL was to bail out poorly-run clubs like Barcelona and Juventus. It's true that between 2014 and 2020, both Juventus and especially Barcelona spent far beyond their means, and the Covid crisis hit them too soon and crushed their unrealistic business model.
In the future, not only Newcastle and the current top 6, but also Leicester and West Ham may become much wealthier than most European clubs. There is a risk that the interest of younger generations in domestic leagues in France and Germany may slowly die out (although this is not comparable to Sweden, I am seeing teenagers who start following football here becoming more likely to support a mid-table English club than their local club). When this process has reached it's peak, it will affect France and Germany hugely. (We've already seen TV rights incomes decreasing in France for the first time in 30 years).. As a result, Bayern and PSG may become unattractive to top players.
Wasn’t Barca’s wage bill at least £50 million more a year than United’s? Baring in mind ours is massively inflated from ridiculous contracts being handed out previously.Of course it is a money grab. No one is hiding it. Perez, Laporta and Agnelli said it several times. How can other european teams compete with the current money flow you guys have in the PL? You get 3 times the tv money and many of your clubs are owned by billionaires. If the rest of europe doesn't respond to that trend in some way, the PL becomes the SL. Or do you expect the other european teams just to roll over and be simply training facilities for the big PL clubs?
Having every year 3 out of 4 CL semifinalists from the PL + PSG or having to watch City - Liverpool 6 times a season doesn't excite the common fan. Repetitiveness is boring but if nothing happens, then that will soon be the reality of european football.
Barcelona had the highest wage bill in the world until 2021.Wasn’t Barca’s wage bill at least £50 million more a year than United’s? Baring in mind ours is massively inflated from ridiculous contracts being handed out previously.
Poor old Barcelona trying to compete with the unfair riches of the Premier League.
And then they complain about being almost broke. What a joke of a club.Barcelona had the highest wage bill in the world until 2021.
You need therapyAnd then they complain about being almost broke. What a joke of a club.
Barcelona got themselves on that financial mess, and they can’t expect some outside force such a the SL to bail them out. They have to restructure their finances, get rid of overrated high earners such as Dembele, spend according to their actual means, and build a sporting process (preferably under a coach who doesn’t blame the grass when they lose). That will take time, likely years, hope their extremely arrogant fan base can deal with it.
I absolutely despise the cnuts, and it would be a dream if they disappeared from the face of earth, but the truth is that they are too big to fail.
The whole capitalism works like that. People invest to grow.Barcelona literally spent money they didn't had
Barca received last season €160m from the total pool of €1.42b. That's around 11%. Bayern received in the same season €90m from €1.06b, that's around 8.5%. So the difference is roughly 2.5%? I see neither making close to €200m, nor a big difference in distribution.Why didn't la liga share tv money more fairly for example bayern is making less tv money because in the BL even BL2 get good amount of money from the tv money. While Barcelona and Real are making close to 200 mil.
The only reason Bayern can compete on top level without spending much is their monopoly in germany. They act like a vacuum cleaner in germany and get all the best german or bundesliga players and talents either cheap or if those teams don't sell them on Bayern's terms, they simply wait until they become free agents because they don't fear a hijack from non existent competion. Lewandowski, Neuer, Upamecano, Nagelsmann, Goetze and many more. No top team in spain or england can get such players or even a coach that cheaply from direct competition. Bayern do, because they have none. Even Leipzig sold their best defender and their coach without much fuss. So please, stop showing Bayern off always as the best example. I don't deny that they handle their money responsibly, but they have unique conditions spanish and english top teams simply don't have. If Barca doesn't pay a high price for a spanish talent, then there is always a chance he goes to Atletico or Real and other way around.Being a Bayern fan looking at Bayern doing everything possible to be economically sensible and compete with the best while seeing Real spending huge amount of money and paying 20 mil plus a year for half the team or seeing Barcelona blowing money left and right and offering bigger salary to lewy even when they are so in debt it blows my mind.
The debt right now, and unlike when Laporta arrived, is well structured in the long term and does not create tensions in the economic balance sheets.Hope things in the new year are better!
Whilst the debt as an amount may go down surely the overall financial picture is hardly rosy? Other than the wage issues, reduced income from CL this year, what about the assets effectively lost under the levers? That surely removes a large area of any potential growth and/or future profit? Saying “the debt has gone down” just sounds like smoke and mirrors, however correct as an actual result.