That might actually be dangerous. If Serie A and La Liga merge, it will be a blockbuster.A super league with just Italien and Spanish clubs, sounds fun
Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
I don't argue for a closed super league. The first format that was proposed was awful. Of course that league needs to be open with relegations. Also those teams won't leave their domestic leagues, but the SL should be a substitute to the CL if I understand it correctly. The SL would cut out the useless and corrupt middlemen uefa that takes 330m for itself every season and promote better games instead of playing half your CL games against for example weaker east european sides, so the top clubs receive more money and that would make the gap smaller.
Madrid and Barca always payed with their own, earned money. If they take a credit, they have to pay it back with their own money.
You don't need to like it, but you can't deny it. Now, many PL teams pay with outside money, provided by their sugar daddies, not generated by football. It's like comparing a kid who worked the whole day to be able to buy a toy and he even took a loan to be able to afford it, while the other kid just asks his father and gets most of the toys he wants. That's the current situation.
I understand your position, that in the last decade you had to see how most of the best players went to spain and now you feel some justice, revenge whatever. But that was a fair market without big investors, without outside money. Clubs spent whatever they earned or had to take a loan, nothing unfair in that.
It's a whole new situation nowadays with outside money ruling football. And without a better money distribution between all the topclubs, I see the PL become an irreversible SL and all the excitement about european competition will stop. The CL only became so big and exciting, because it meant something to beat the best teams from other countries. If one country will take over european football, then nobody will care anymore. Whats the point of a european competition, if it's dominated by one country?
Of course it's not like that yet, because you can still argue that Madrid and sometimes Bayern wins the CL now and then, but every time it feels more and more lucky/undeserved, at least in my opinion. Last year Madrid were the worse side in every match against the PL teams, but had thankfully Benzema in the form of his life. The trend is dangerous. Juventus, Madrid, Barca and Bayern struggle a lot to keep up and that will worsen year after year. We can still pull players thanks to our big names in Spain, Bayern still gets some cheap good german players because of their monopoly there. But that won't last forever if the gap continues to grow and more sheikhs with more outside money buy themselves into the english football.
That's another topic. I'm not talking about Bartomeu's mismanagement here, but the general situation.
I get that you’re defending your own team but the big 2 in Spain haven’t given a shit about any other team in their own leagues never mind anywhere else. They’ve both behaved arrogantly. Which is probably why there is so little sympathy now
Fatboy really isn't giving up on the super league
A fair market where only two teams in the league get split the majority of TV money between them?
They’ll eventually get it. There’s a super league starting next year in Africa. I can see other continents getting in on the action soon enough. Asia has been rumoured to be considering one.
Just look at the new UCL format. It’s basically a super league pretty much
It’s literally the only way Barcelona can get out of this hole. The thing is, the super league would have gone a head if JP Morgan would have put up more cash than they originally did, that’s why these cnuts are still pushing for it.
Not true at all. They’ll be out of the hole by this time next year. Have one of the best attendances in Europe which goes a long way. Need to do better in CL next year and are on top of the table right now
On top of the table
What?2nd you mean?
Quick, someone get Barcelona the “we’re 2nd in the league 15 games into the season” trophy and the huge cash prize to go with it.
Barcelona literally spent money they didn't had and Real has done some shaddy business with the government always bailing them out.
Problem is Perez wants to be the top dog like always Real getting the mbappes,Hallands etc for big money and now they are bigger fish in the sea with more money and Barcelona and Real wants to find a way they can get more money so they continue this spending.
Why didn't la liga share tv money more fairly for example bayern is making less tv money because in the BL even BL2 get good amount of money from the tv money. While Barcelona and Real are making close to 200 mil.
People thinking Real,Milan, Barcelona are like the old good teams while they are the same actually Berlusconi was the investor back then spending huge amount of money for that period but he couldn't compete with the middle east
Being a Bayern fan looking at Bayern doing everything possible to be economically sensible and compete with the best while seeing Real spending huge amount of money and paying 20 mil plus a year for half the team or seeing Barcelona blowing money left and right and offering bigger salary to lewy even when they are so in debt it blows my mind.
Real is not any better than PSG and City if we didnt had them Real would have done what they were doing but on a slightly smaller scale.
not sure what table you’re reading and what other clown takes you have but Barca are on top of the table. Keep your tail between your legs as you struggle to make CL.
Really? I don't remember Barcelona, Real Madrid etc caring when rest of European football was eaten alive by clubs like yours. You are part of elite, you are no freedom fighters. And I don't really think fans of clubs from 50+ European countries really see you as their representative. Rest of Europe as you call it. There's no rest of Europe, there is actually, but Barcelona isn't part of that group.
No way, it's gonna take more time.
Barcelona was already kinda mediocre in the last 2 seasons when Messi was there.
It was just overlooked because GOAT was carrying them with his brilliance, now they don't have anyone to carry them when they play like shit, and their mediocrity is getting more exposed.
It's gonna take way more time to rebuild this mess, signing one big star is not gonna solve it.
And the likes of Pedri and Gavi looked underwhelming in the UCL, their 'amazing' form has been mostly in La Liga.
It's gonna take at least a decade for Barca to become relevant again in the UCL (reaching semifinals very often).
Nobody is gonna be relevant if the benchmark is consistent ucl semi final appearances. Just winning la liga for the first time in 3-4 years would he massive. We definitely have our work cut out for us but saying it’ll take a decade is a bit of nonsense. Barca still have massive pull so that’ll really help.
Yeah. 2024 LaLiga2 table.
No. Barcelona for next year has to reduce its wage bill. If you don't, you will get out of the 1/1 rule. And levers can no longer be used because the regulations changed.
With the rules of the FFP of the Spanish league no club in the top 6 could sign anything, I said it last year.
Barcelona is much better economically than last year and finishing this one even better. At the end of this next season Barcelona will have to lower the wage bill.
Gross debt is over €1,050M and net debt at €608M.
And at the end of the season the debt will be much lower thanks to the levers. Next season without the levers Barcelona will have to lower the wage bill.
Sorry, Christmas has been hard
Yes, Barcelona will be fine but will have little to spend next year. It is what there is and also begins the remodeling of the stadium.
Seems the table I looked at was from yesterday before Barca played, but I’ve seen the updated table now and seeing as you’re level on points at the top with Madrid 15 games into the season, I’d like to sincerely apologise as it’s clear that there’s no point in playing any of the remaining games as Barcelona are already champions.
Good news also, you’ll get to play your customary 6 games in the CL next season because your league is void of all competition, that’s if the club hasn’t been completely stripped of all its assets in the summer. At least you’ve got more levers to look forward to!
They should find a way to sell Barcelona fan arrogance, you’d be the richest club in the universe.
Leagues over mate, they’ve won it.
They might have the pull but don’t have the money to pay a transfer fee and then the appropriate wages for the players. Current players have been mistreated over wages, fans on FDJ back for not taking a wage cut to help the club out all while they sign more and more players instead of fixing the financial situation.
Real Madrid went through their own issues and buying every Galactico under the sun to win trophies, it didn’t work. Seems to be what Barca are trying to do the last few seasons. Signing Coutinho, Greizmann for ridiculous wages and fees resulted in this financial mess.
Don't you think there's a gap between qualifying for UCL semi finals and loosing 2 years in a row in the group stage, especially after recruiting like crazy during the last transfer window?
Also, nobody is naive about the current level of La Liga, we see the games. It's bad, the worst I've seen in 20 years.
I dont. It was boring, cynical shit when it was the strongest league in europe. Could barely watch it then, think you'd have to be crazy to be watching it now
I actually liked La Liga very much in the prime Messi/Ronaldo/Atletico era, lots of fun games.
Now far less, all the offensive talent is pretty much gone.
The games between Real and Barca when Mourinho was in charge totally put me off. Thought they were amongst the worst matches ive ever seen
Obviously LaLiga has lost talent, but it's normal.
Here there is no Abramovich who forgives €2.000M and the new owner spends a fortune.
Neither are sheikhs. Laliga spends what they can to avoid getting into debt and taking away a few clubs most are doing well financially.
Look how the Italian league is with Inter, Roma and Milan, very high debts and selling the club every few years. Juventus made capital increases of about €900m in recent years.
LaLiga clubs were very competitive until the middle of the last decade at the cost of brutally indebtedness, and I'm not talking about Madrid and Barcelona. So there were so many complaints of non-payment to players. Since Tebas created the FFP the 42 professional clubs are very healthy except for a couple of them.
Laliga spends what it can and the level is not low. It's a good level but football of wasting time and faking injuries and so on makes it look worse than it really is.
Here there is no Abramovich who forgives €2.000M and the new owner spends a fortune.
Neither are sheikhs. Laliga spends what they can to avoid getting into debt and taking away a few clubs most are doing well financially.
Look how the Italian league is with Inter, Roma and Milan, very high debts and selling the club every few years. Juventus made capital increases of about €900m in recent years.
LaLiga clubs were very competitive until the middle of the last decade at the cost of brutally indebtedness, and I'm not talking about Madrid and Barcelona. So there were so many complaints of non-payment to players. Since Tebas created the FFP the 42 professional clubs are very healthy except for a couple of them.
Laliga spends what it can and the level is not low. It's a good level but football of wasting time and faking injuries and so on makes it look worse than it really is.
The ruling is unlikely to outright ban the ESL. The court will certainly say that UEFA can expel clubs from its competitions if they start a Super League. What UEFA needs now is a ruling to allow them (UEFA and FIFA) to make players participating in the SL ineligible for international football with their respective national teams. Without this ruling, the super league is likely to become a reality at some point. It is only a matter of time before the top German and French clubs (and the rest of Italy and Spain) come to the same conclusion as the three clubs currently pushing for the creation of the super league.
In about two to three years, the Premier League's total revenue is expected to be worth more than the combined revenues of all the other top four leagues (including Real Madrid, Barcelona, Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern Munich, and Juventus). England has had an advantage in terms of money since Abu Dhabi bought Manchester City and instructed Abu Dhabi Sports to buy the Premier League's TV rights for the MENA region for a record price. Since then, these rights have skyrocketed, and the US and European markets have followed suit. Viaplay's deal for north Europe is ridiculously high and the marketing of the PL in here is killing our local leagues slowly... The gap between the Premier League and the other top four leagues has been steadily increasing and is now reaching unprecedented levels.
The other top four leagues will have to either accept a decline similar to what smaller leagues (such as the Portuguese and Dutch leagues) experienced after the Bosman ruling, or join forces in some sort of SL to try to keep pace with the Premier League.
No. I do not know about the french clubs - but forget the German clubs.
Agree with you completely. La liga is in a terrible state and back to back Europa appearances is pretty pathetic. But I do think it’ll be sooner than a decade before Barca get a semi finals appearance. Very few if any teams make 3 semi finals in a row or something lately. I do think the team is better than they were a year ago where even top 4 in la liga was far from certain.
the arrogant one here is you running your mouth over nothing. United would be third if they were in la liga. Good luck with selling the club!
There's only 1 french club that can consistently play a CL level competiton and it is STRONGLY against any kind of superleague. And it doesn't really need the money anyway.
Hope things in the new year are better!No. Barcelona for next year has to reduce its wage bill. If you don't, you will get out of the 1/1 rule. And levers can no longer be used because the regulations changed.
With the rules of the FFP of the Spanish league no club in the top 6 could sign anything, I said it last year.
Barcelona is much better economically than last year and finishing this one even better. At the end of this next season Barcelona will have to lower the wage bill.
Gross debt is over €1,050M and net debt at €608M.
And at the end of the season the debt will be much lower thanks to the levers. Next season without the levers Barcelona will have to lower the wage bill.
Sorry, Christmas has been hard
Yes, Barcelona will be fine but will have little to spend next year. It is what there is and also begins the remodeling of the stadium.
Whilst the debt as an amount may go down surely the overall financial picture is hardly rosy? Other than the wage issues, reduced income from CL this year, what about the assets effectively lost under the levers? That surely removes a large area of any potential growth and/or future profit? Saying “the debt has gone down” just sounds like smoke and mirrors, however correct as an actual result.
Initially, it seemed that the primary motive of the ESL was to bail out poorly-run clubs like Barcelona and Juventus. It's true that between 2014 and 2020, both Juventus and especially Barcelona spent far beyond their means, and the Covid crisis hit them too soon and crushed their unrealistic business model.
In the future, not only Newcastle and the current top 6, but also Leicester and West Ham may become much wealthier than most European clubs. There is a risk that the interest of younger generations in domestic leagues in France and Germany may slowly die out (although this is not comparable to Sweden, I am seeing teenagers who start following football here becoming more likely to support a mid-table English club than their local club). When this process has reached it's peak, it will affect France and Germany hugely. (We've already seen TV rights incomes decreasing in France for the first time in 30 years).. As a result, Bayern and PSG may become unattractive to top players.
A europe wide league containing Dutch, Portuguese, Italian and other teams could potentially be brilliant and i'd welcome it. Just not if the only point is to enrich barca and real so they can compete with oil states.
Germans and french support their local clubs no matter what, same in Brazil and Argentina, just because the league is shit it doesn't mean they are gonna stop watching their own league, and wear an english jersey and sing chants for Liverpool or City.
Sweden is different, they don't have the same football passion like in Germany,France, Brazil, or Argentina, so they are more likely to drop the local club
If you have been to Germany, you know germans rather support their local club in Bundesliga.2 than support a foreign club just because the foreign club it's more successful...let alone an english club ffs.
France, Germany,Brazil, and Argentina have football culture and history, people aren't gonna give up the support for their local club to bandwagon a successful foreign club... that's more likely to happen in Asia, cause they lack football history, and before the 90s football was literally amateur there.
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Wasn’t Barca’s wage bill at least £50 million more a year than United’s? Baring in mind ours is massively inflated from ridiculous contracts being handed out previously.
Poor old Barcelona trying to compete with the unfair riches of the Premier League.
Barcelona had the highest wage bill in the world until 2021.
And then they complain about being almost broke. What a joke of a club.
Barcelona got themselves on that financial mess, and they can’t expect some outside force such a the SL to bail them out. They have to restructure their finances, get rid of overrated high earners such as Dembele, spend according to their actual means, and build a sporting process (preferably under a coach who doesn’t blame the grass when they lose). That will take time, likely years, hope their extremely arrogant fan base can deal with it.
I absolutely despise the cnuts, and it would be a dream if they disappeared from the face of earth, but the truth is that they are too big to fail.
You need therapy
The whole capitalism works like that. People invest to grow.
My point is, that barca didn't receive any gifts. The banks didn't give out that money, because their CEO was a culer. Barca built it's status over a 100 year old history. The club built up his worldwide fanbase and earned the current status, where they can sell levers or banks are willing to give loans equivalent to their income, which barca by the way have to pay back again, with their own money and interest.
How can you compare this to the situation where sugar daddies or states invest into football clubs for sports washing reasons and give out money without any requirement for free? Barca pays back it's debts. Where would PSG, City, Chelsea be if they had to pay back all their "debts"? Not on the football field anymore. If one side has to pay back and the other doesnt, who will benefit and break away from competition in the long term you think? That's my point.
Barca received last season €160m from the total pool of €1.42b. That's around 11%. Bayern received in the same season €90m from €1.06b, that's around 8.5%. So the difference is roughly 2.5%? I see neither making close to €200m, nor a big difference in distribution.
The only reason Bayern can compete on top level without spending much is their monopoly in germany. They act like a vacuum cleaner in germany and get all the best german or bundesliga players and talents either cheap or if those teams don't sell them on Bayern's terms, they simply wait until they become free agents because they don't fear a hijack from non existent competion. Lewandowski, Neuer, Upamecano, Nagelsmann, Goetze and many more. No top team in spain or england can get such players or even a coach that cheaply from direct competition. Bayern do, because they have none. Even Leipzig sold their best defender and their coach without much fuss. So please, stop showing Bayern off always as the best example. I don't deny that they handle their money responsibly, but they have unique conditions spanish and english top teams simply don't have. If Barca doesn't pay a high price for a spanish talent, then there is always a chance he goes to Atletico or Real and other way around.
The debt right now, and unlike when Laporta arrived, is well structured in the long term and does not create tensions in the economic balance sheets.
Barcelona has ordinary losses of 150 million this year, approximately. The problem is the wage bill that is still high and there are very high contracts.
The good news for Barcelona is that some contracts (Piqué, Busquets, Depay) and amortization (Griezzman, Pjanic...) of players end this year.
Only with these 5 players will the salary mass drop by approximately 90 million euros. And the club is working to lower it with more players.
Next year Barcelona will not comply with the FFP of the Spanish league and will have restrictions again. Something that was already known and the club will try to sign players who end their contract and the little money they have in making a young signing with projection.
Barcelona for the elimination of the Champions League will stop generating 26 million euros, if they advance in the Europa League then the amount will be less. On the other hand, in other economic categories such as sponsorship, the club has increased the forecast by 23 million euros (from 189 to 212).