Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job

[AlPistacho]

Potter was a great coach at Brighton to a point that if we hadn’t gotten ETH, I would have wanted him at United above Poch or any other candidate. The comparisons with Moyes don’t make sense in terms of footballing styles. But the job being too big for him feels very much like Moyes’ time with us. In my opinion, the points dropped early in the season was his own doing with his constant tinkering of the lineup to try and find his “best” team. He’s bit of a lame duck now and needs his players to bail him out. Modern day footballers won’t be bothered though.

I agree with a lot of what you say. But the whole “job being too big for him” and comparing that to Moyes is something I don’t like because it seems to be something reserved for British managers. How many foreign managers have come to the prem over the years to join a top 4 club and failed but no one really says ohh it was to big for him. One that comes to mind is the ex Porto manager who joined Chelsea.

Really I think with Potter it’s similar to that. He was good enough to get a shot. Punched but couldn’t punch hard enough. Like many managers before him.

 

[crossy1686]

On the one hand, I was watching this thinking 'that's quite endearing of the fans to show faith and give him support' but then it all sounded kind of sarcastic and mocking with the 'best manager in the world'

Might be a Graham Moyes moment for Chelsea.

Nah, that was when he was talking about how good Forest were the other week after getting a point against them. Big teams don't want to hear that, I think he'll do the "that's the level were aspiring to be at" any day now.

 

[Galactic]

No, don’t think so to be honest. Greatest decorated manager of all time in SAF didn’t win as much as the players. So it can be done. You just have to demand respect & be good. There’s players in the United dressing room who have won more than EtH and they respect him

Are you serious?

As a player, he was top scorer in Scottish league and was then transferred for club record fee to Rangers, which is no small feat back then. Not spectacular, but much much better than Potters.

From internet:
Manager Bio
At St Mirren, Ferguson transformed a Second Division team into the 1977 First Division champions. Ferguson further enhanced his reputation at Aberdeen, where he guided the club to three top-flight titles, four Scottish Cups, and triumphs in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Super Cup.

 

[NoPace]

Maybe we can. Also Moyes did very well at Everton on limited budget but difference between him and Potter is/was playing style. Potter team try to dominate and keeps possession well whereas Moyes team are defensive first.

Yeah, which is why I think Potter will get a 2nd chance. Not fixing Chelsea after coming in mid-season after a very good manager in Tuchel couldn't get results won't embarrass Potter, as long as he gets fired this season. If he gets the pre-season and they're not good next year, that would maybe send him back to the Villa/Newcastle type range.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah, which is why I think Potter will get a 2nd chance. Not fixing Chelsea after coming in mid-season after a very good manager in Tuchel couldn't get results won't embarrass Potter, as long as he gets fired this season. If he gets the pre-season and they're not good next year, that would maybe send him back to the Villa/Newcastle type range.

Yeah, I think he will get chances. He is a good manager tbf.

 

[Godfather]

He is no Tuchel

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Do i think he deserves the sack? not sure, but he is on thin ice. Do i think he will get sacked? No

 

[Samid]

He’s a hipster and nomadic Moyes.

Brutal thing from his perspective is that he actually has gone the grades and sensibly worked his way upwards. This one time he jumps the gun and goes mid-season to a team in disarray with a clueless and batshit insane owner. And from being flavor of the month just 4-5 months ago his whole reputation is now in the mud. He won't get a top job again. Unless he goes abroad again the best he'll be able to do are the likes of Spurs and Villa. Maybe the England job but he'll be very lucky to be offered that anytime soon with his poor handling of a bigger dressing room fresh in mind.

 

[weetee]

Yeah, I think he will get chances. He is a good manager tbf.

But being a good manager doesn't equal being a good manager in all circumstances or regardless the club. It's a huge gamble Boehly et. al. are taking if they center their plans around a manger that has never managed a club of that magnitude and (without real knowledge so feel free to correct me) I'd say a club in such upheaval as well - all the while getting slapped on the pitch by each and every opponent. The players he can field are all decent enough to get better performances, I'm not even saying better results, and it's not that he has to integrate players that are coming back from injuries. His tactics seem mostly toothless so far and if he really is such a good tactitian I'd expect at least some more tweaks.

edit: sorry, think I totally missed your point -> I completely agree with you.

 

[K2K]

I really rate Potter and agree he has been hamstrung since joining Chelsea. I'm pretty sure having Boehly step down as DoF will help as he has been splurging like a kid in a sweetshop seemingly without much thought or understanding of balancing a team, I mean you've bought 3 left sided CBs and no Reece James back for example.

Given a preseason and a recovering injury list Potter will do well. I don't get the comparison with Moyes, they are totally different managers, Potter's style is much more progressive, whereas Moyes is bit old school defensive. Potter got a defensive solid team at Brighton playing beautiful attacking football, if he can do that with a Chris Hughton team, he can do the same easily at Chelsea, but he needs time. Fortunately I think Boehly will give him time as he seems bought into the project.

You just need to buy sensibly for a change!

People forget that David Moyes was a 3 time manager of the season before he joined United.

He actually has more pedigree that Potter.

And even he was simply not good enough for such a big job.

Everyone keeps saying give Potter time and he will do well. But there's nothing to say that will happen other than blind hope. They are in relegation form. That can't just be attributed to injuries and poor transfer policies. At some point, the manager has to take some responsibility. That's what seperates managers at big clubs and those from smaller ones.

 

[redcucumber]

He’s a hipster and nomadic Moyes.

Brutal thing from his perspective is that he actually has gone the grades and sensibly worked his way upwards. This one time he jumps the gun and goes mid-season to a team in disarray with a clueless and batshit insane owner. And from being flavor of the month just 4-5 months ago his whole reputation is now in the mud. He won't get a top job again. Unless he goes abroad again the best he'll be able to do are the likes of Spurs and Villa. Maybe the England job but he'll be very lucky to be offered that anytime soon with his poor handling of a bigger dressing room fresh in mind.

Yeh. I really rate Potter (my preferred second choice after ten Hag) but it looks like a major case of wrong club, wrong time. I'm semi hoping he can pull it round as I'd like to see him do well (as long as they remain below us obv) but it massively depends on whether or not the players grow disillusioned beyond the point of no return. They need some of their big hitters back on the pitch as soon as possible.

 

[K2K]

Yeah, which is why I think Potter will get a 2nd chance. Not fixing Chelsea after coming in mid-season after a very good manager in Tuchel couldn't get results won't embarrass Potter, as long as he gets fired this season. If he gets the pre-season and they're not good next year, that would maybe send him back to the Villa/Newcastle type range.

How will this period reflect on Potter and the next guy comes in and starts winning? Possibly even trophies. With the same players?

Because it's a real possibility. For all their faults, this Chelsea squad are much better than the sum of their parts at present.

 

[whitbyviking]

I was in the depths of manflu between Boxing Day and the beginning of this week so I actually missed the fact that Brentford beat Liverpool. Between that result, the cup results and Chelsea imploding it's been a bloody good week.

 

[NoPace]

How will this period reflect on Potter and the next guy comes in and starts winning? Possibly even trophies. With the same players?

Because it's a real possibility. For all their faults, this Chelsea squad are much better than the sum of their parts at present.

It'll reflect poorly, but he also gets the Chelsea sheen, and I don't think he's seen as Avram Grant.

Too good for the Prem mid-table, no longer an exciting hire for the big Prem teams, so it's either Spurs if Conte leaves, or since he's not the classic Brexit type, a big job on the continent I'd guess.

 

[Brophs]

But being a good manager doesn't equal being a good manager in all circumstances or regardless the club. It's a huge gamble Boehly et. al. are taking if they center their plans around a manger that has never managed a club of that magnitude and (without real knowledge so feel free to correct me) I'd say a club in such upheaval as well - all the while getting slapped on the pitch by each and every opponent. The players he can field are all decent enough to get better performances, I'm not even saying better results, and it's not that he has to integrate players that are coming back from injuries. His tactics seem mostly toothless so far and if he really is such a good tactitian I'd expect at least some more tweaks.

He built a really good Brighton team but that’s a different thing than going to a club like Chelsea and having to be the dominant team almost every week. Much less having to deal with the scrutiny and demand for fairly instantaneous results.

I remember hearing Rory Smyth talk a lot of sense about this. In England the view of managers is all wrong. Everyone is either Good Enough or Not Good Enough. No attention is paid to to the type of manager they are. Over in Italy, say, they’re more willing to take a horses for courses approach. “This guy is a specialist at bottom of the table dogfights. Bring him in for this period and then move on.” In England, you do well in the PL or championship and you’re automatically loaded into the top half PL slingshot, with seemingly no concern over whether your success in one type of job will translate. Without even mentioning that managerial development or improvement is almost dismissed. “He wasn’t good enough for X 5 years ago. Steer clear.” It’s so lazy and self-defeating.

None of which is to say Potter is the right man. I have no idea. I suspect that given time and patience, he might do a decent job. I wouldn’t bet my house on it, though.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I mean, he's doing well now but lets remember how things were looking at the start when Casemiro and Varane weren't on the pitch. Now imagine you have Eriksen, Rashford, Martinez, Shaw, Martial and DDG sidelined on top of that and you're having to start Maguire, Elanga, Dubravka and McFred every week.

That's pretty much the equivalent of our current injury issues.

But Rashford and Martinez and Shaw and Eriksen etc have all been great this season. Them all being injured would be a huge blow. You have loads of injuries true but I think it's only really 3 or 4 that are really a big deal. Chilwell , James , Kante and Fofana probably.

Mendy had been shockingly poor and already replaced by Kepa, and the likes of Pulisic and Sterling have had poor seasons anyway. I'm not sure if they were both fit last night it would have made much difference.

It's kind of like Sancho not being available for the last few months, on paper it's a miss but the way he had been playing I'm not sure it has been really.

 

[Samid]

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"Try and get the 3 points"

Crikey. This is like Moyes' "we are capable of making things difficult for Newcastle".

 

[Paul the Wolf]

These 2 aren't mutually exclusive... They seem to know their business.



Usually, newly-promoted teams tend to go down again within three or four years. Brighton are still here for a reason...

Regarding the win percentage, it was 34 in 119 games if you only take the Premier League (28.6%). That was up from a 23.7% win percentage in their first two seasons in the Premier League (with Hughton). These are still very good results. And he was mainly praised for the playing style; their expected goals have been high. If they had the means to get better finishers, it could be even better.

Being better than Chris Hughton is hardly a glowing endorsement for managing one of the top clubs in the world. The only reason he's hyped up is because he's English and the English media are desperate for an English success.

He spent his playing career in the lower reaches of the football league and a 31% success rate managing your previous club is hardly going to hold the admiration of the international players he's telling how to play football. He looks as if he's already lost the players.

If Ole and Moyes were out of their depth then this guy is going to be sunk without a trace. If he lasts to the end of the season I'll be surprised. I hope he lasts for a few years, takes Chelsea out of the equation.

 

[Pronewbie]

feck me @Pronewbie, Ralf came 3rd in the Bundesliga in 2019, a better achievement in a top league than Potter has ever managed
He’s also doing a good job for Austria now.

What he isn’t, is a good manager to parachute in mid-season as a caretaker, and well, Potter is proving even fecking worse at that, yet he at least has the bonus of being a permanent manager when trying to gain respect of the players and implement his style.
Ralf lost 8 games for us in total, Potter’s already on 7 losses .
As of now, there’s absolutely no debate as to who’s doing way fecking worse.

Oh it's certainly debatable.
1. 3rd in a much weaker league with a souped up team vs a Chelsea low on confidence and in an injury crisis.
2. Rangnick had a winter break and failed to implement his style over time with us, while overseeing a decline in performances vs caretaker Carrick. You could already see ETH's fingerprints on our team in Bangkok.
3. Last season, Rangnick achieved an average points per match of 1.45 with United, Potter 1.35 with unfancied Brighton.

For all of Rangnick's bluster and sales talk that most United fans bought into, I'd already picked up that he would be an incredibly underwhelming manager for us. Jury's still out on Potter but unfortunately I suspect he won't be given the time to prove himself, at least with a fully fit Chelsea team.

 

[Member 101269]

jose mourinho part 3

 

[SilentWitness]

It's a major rebuild he is faced with and we have seen it plenty of times with managers where you look at their squads 2-3 years after they take over and it's completely different to what they began with. Klopp, Arteta and I'm sure even Ten Hag will have/had completely different sides to what they began with and have shown big improvements for it. There are only 5 players in the match squad from Potters first game with Brighton to his last game with them. Managers need time to shape their own players and sides. If you look at the Chelsea squad you can roughly name 10 players who need to be shown the door in the summer due to factors like age, quality and them being disruptive to the club. You'd perhaps keep a few of them like Chalobah to bolster the squad but they won't be starters anymore. If Potter leaves or not it's not a job which will be easy and it's one that is going to take time. In terms of injuries and suspensions they have currently you also have 10 or so players that would be in the starting 11 or at least pushing very hard for that starting spot.

 

[bringbackbebe]

It's a major rebuild he is faced with and we have seen it plenty of times with managers where you look at their squads 2-3 years after they take over and it's completely different to what they began with. Klopp, Arteta and I'm sure even Ten Hag will have/had completely different sides to what they began with and have shown big improvements for it. There are only 5 players in the match squad from Potters first game with Brighton to his last game with them. Managers need time to shape their own players and sides. If you look at the Chelsea squad you can roughly name 10 players who need to be shown the door in the summer due to factors like age, quality and them being disruptive to the club. You'd perhaps keep a few of them like Chalobah to bolster the squad but they won't be starters anymore. If Potter leaves or not it's not a job which will be easy and it's one that is going to take time. In terms of injuries and suspensions they have currently you also have 10 or so players that would be in the starting 11 or at least pushing very hard for that starting spot.

It's not in the culture of the club. Unlike Arsenal where the fans have been used to both loyalty to their manager as well as a decade and a half of disappointment (with Wenger), Chelsea fans have been pampered with one trophy or another. Manager went a year without trophies? No problem, sack him and get a new shiny one. The 70m striker doesn't score goals? No problem, throw him to the U21s and buy another 3. All 3 failed? No problem, buy another 3.

The fans are already behind Potter. Another couple of defeats and I don't see Boehly backing Potter risking his own reputation which is as bad. Could also come down to the pay off to Potter if he gets sacked. The situation is similar to Everton's.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Oh it's certainly debatable.
1. 3rd in a much weaker league with a souped up team vs a Chelsea low on confidence and in an injury crisis.
2. Rangnick had a winter break and failed to implement his style over time with us, while overseeing a decline in performances vs caretaker Carrick. You could already see ETH's fingerprints on our team in Bangkok.
3. Last season, Rangnick achieved an average points per match of 1.45 with United, Potter 1.35 with unfancied Brighton.

For all of Rangnick's bluster and sales talk that most United fans bought into, I'd already picked up that he would be an incredibly underwhelming manager for us. Jury's still out on Potter but unfortunately I suspect he won't be given the time to prove himself, at least with a fully fit Chelsea team.

Vs.Carrick
He managed 2 games man.
Ralf also won his first two PL games in charge, just like Carrick.

Why are you talking about ETH? This is about Potter.

As for Winter break, Potter just had 6 fecking weeks

Ralf got 1.54 PL points per game, Potter 1.25 and actually Ralf’s only went completely to shit at the end of the season when all the players gave up on the manager they knew wouldn’t be there come pre-season.

So no, it’s not even slightly debatable who’s doing worse, let’s not even talk about the side Ralf took over in comparison who were getting absolutely spanked on a weekly basis.

 

[SilentWitness]

It's not in the culture of the club.

We don't know what the culture of the club is yet with Boehly.

 

[Pronewbie]

Vs.Carrick
He managed 2 games man.
Ralf also won his first two PL games in charge, just like Carrick.

Why are you talking about ETH? This is about Potter.

As for Winter break, Potter just had 6 fecking weeks

Ralf got 1.54 PL points per game, Potter 1.25 and actually Ralf’s only went completely to shit at the end of the season when all the players gave up on the manager they knew wouldn’t be there come pre-season.

So no, it’s not even slightly debatable who’s doing worse, let’s not even talk about the side Ralf took over in comparison who were getting absolutely spanked on a weekly basis.

Solskjaer had a ppm of 1.42 in that disastrous last season, rangnick 1.45 based on transfermarket. Not much of an improvement is it? It's the manager's fault if he loses his players despite having a CL spot to play for. Carrick's name was used to show that the players were capable of playing under a decent manager they trust, even in an interim role. Too bad it was shortlived for that snake oil salesman.

I'd judge Potter poorly if he underperforms with a fit-enough Chelsea squad, if he lasts that long.

 

[Kaos]

Wonder if Eddie Howe would have done a better job there.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

He was never the manager to get instant success.

I think everyone says that when they hire a coach like this and plead for patience until they begin to struggle in the initial period and then it all goes out the window. We saw the ultimate screenshot of that on here during our first 2 games of the season.

I think he is a very good manager and given time he will get them playing. What he did at Brighton was sustainable at any level, improving the players, implementing a style of play that they all understand and that will result in getting more wins than you have a right to based on the talent at your disposal.

With that said Boehy will obviously sack him and hire Pochettino, they will have the same problems and he will probably end up hiring Ancelotti when he is done at Madrid.

 

[romufc]

I don't see how this is a major rebuild. Chelsea have spent 380m in 6 months yet people say that this is a massive rebuild?
This is the club that won the CL 20 months ago.

Comparison to Arsenal, Liverpool, United is not the same, all those clubs were rubbish for years prior to a rebuild.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I don't see how this is a major rebuild. Chelsea have spent 380m in 6 months yet people say that this is a massive rebuild?
This is the club that won the CL 20 months ago.

Comparison to Arsenal, Liverpool, United is not the same, all those clubs were rubbish for years prior to a rebuild.

Yeah their squad is decent, ridiculous that they have still not brought a striker but they have a lot of quality.

 

[VP89]

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"Try and get the 3 points"

Crikey. This is like Moyes' "we are capable of making things difficult for Newcastle".

Is it though? He said he wants them to go for the win. Not exactly the same thing.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Chelsea had a pretty good season last season. Two cup finals, 3rd place , super cup and lost only 8 games overall apart from the 2 finals on pens. And have spent £300m+ to add to that.

Last season Brighton won 4 of their first 5 league games and 5 out of their last 8 but they only won 3 PL games out of the middle 25 - that is appalling.

 

[Zehner]

He was never the manager to get instant success.

I think everyone says that when they hire a coach like this and plead for patience until they begin to struggle in the initial period and then it all goes out the window. We saw the ultimate screenshot of that on here during our first 2 games of the season.

I think he is a very good manager and given time he will get them playing. What he did at Brighton was sustainable at any level, improving the players, implementing a style of play that they all understand and that will result in getting more wins than you have a right to based on the talent at your disposal.

With that said Boehy will obviously sack him and hire Pochettino, they will have the same problems and he will probably end up hiring Ancelotti when he is done at Madrid.

Not saying he is one of them but there are many coaches who can implement cohesive systems that only work for underdogs or midtable clubs. Just because something works at Brighton it doesn't mean it will work for Chelsea who are favorites in the majority of their games.

 

[romufc]

Yeah their squad is decent, ridiculous that they have still not brought a striker but they have a lot of quality.

They have tried with Lukaku, Auba, Werner.. just haven;t worked out.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Not saying he is one of them but there are many coaches who can implement cohesive systems that only work for underdogs or midtable clubs. Just because something works at Brighton it doesn't mean it will work for Chelsea who are favorites in the majority of their games.

Oh for sure, I think someone like Moyes is a very decent mid table manager.

I do think purely from the eye test of how his Brighton side played he is one of the ones who's skills can translate to a top side. To be fair I could be wrong as there was a time I would have thought the same about Brendan Rodgers.

I just think it is a bit silly that people know the gamble with a coach like this, in essence they may not be at that level and if they are there will usually be a bumpy start. If it goes well then you can get more long term and sustainable success than someone like a prime Jose but that is the risk.

Then when gets a little tough to start with people are so quick to abandon ship.

 

[SilentWitness]

I don't see how this is a major rebuild. Chelsea have spent 380m in 6 months yet people say that this is a massive rebuild?
This is the club that won the CL 20 months ago.

Comparison to Arsenal, Liverpool, United is not the same, all those clubs were rubbish for years prior to a rebuild.

Domestically they've won nothing since 17-18 and their last league title was in 16-17. They've been far off the pace in the league for quite a while now and that's due to the squad not being good enough or having issues like age that need to be addressed. Sure, they were 3rd last season but 19 points behind the winners. It's a league where you need c. 85+ points to win now. People saying Tuchel is a better manager are right but he was still 19 points off the title which shows that even with him they were in need of rebuilding still.

We have seen in the past where teams that aren't necessarily great win the CL or cup trophies. Chelsea did it with Di Matteo and barely anyone would say he's a good manager. You can also spend money on crap. Most players weren't bought under Potter with that money and spending money doesn't mean success. As a United and Everton fan we both know that. United have been through multiple rebuilds and you'd consider EtH is in the stages of one now despite United spending a shit ton of money.

 

[royboy16]

Poch is probably next in the hot seat.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

They have tried with Lukaku, Auba, Werner.. just haven;t worked out.

Yeah but in a season where they spent SO much money I feel like Auba was a desperation throw of the dice that they knew had a good chance of not working out.

I do think to be fair there is a serious lack of available top class strikers at the moment who are of the right age. Oshimen being talked of as a near record breaking transfer highlights that point.

 

[romufc]

Yeah but in a season where they spent SO much money I feel like Auba was a desperation throw of the dice that they knew had a good chance of not working out.

I do think to be fair there is a serious lack of available top class strikers at the moment who are of the right age. Oshimen being talked of as a near record breaking transfer highlights that point.

This is the problem, every ST now that goes to a big club is going to be a big fee, which brings pressure. The transfer fee is a problem.

 

[romufc]

Domestically they've won nothing since 17-18 and their last league title was in 16-17. They've been far off the pace in the league for quite a while now and that's due to the squad not being good enough or having issues like age that need to be addressed. Sure, they were 3rd last season but 19 points behind the winners. It's a league where you need c. 85+ points to win now. People saying Tuchel is a better manager are right but he was still 19 points off the title which shows that even with him they were in need of rebuilding still.

We have seen in the past where teams that aren't necessarily great win the CL or cup trophies. Chelsea did it with Di Matteo and barely anyone would say he's a good manager. You can also spend money on crap. Most players weren't bought under Potter with that money and spending money doesn't mean success. As a United and Everton fan we both know that. United have been through multiple rebuilds and you'd consider EtH is in the stages of one now despite United spending a shit ton of money.

I agree but Chelsea fans were excited that after that, they will click into a Title challenge. I dont know but I feel rebuilds are over rated.

Get the right coach in and the so called rebuild can be reduced to 1/2 seasons.

 

[Ish]

Of the "attainable" managers, Potter was actually number 3 on my list behind EtH and Enrique iirc. Yikes.

But i think he needs more time and Chelsea should give him until mid next season, though I'm not sure he'll get it as that is not how they are used to operating and i am not sure he has enough "power" to turn things around: like commanding the discipline/respect of the players, enough "say" over transfer dealings and time to implement his philosophy.

What Boehly is doing sort of reminds me of Woodward. Clueless and just running after big names without a vision, seemingly. I think at least Woodward gave a little more "control" to his managers (there's a downside to that as well) and stuck by them a tad too long. In short, it seems like we've struck gold with EtH