Now I am not saying Arnold and Murtough are good or bad because The white elephants in the room - the parasites - are the yay or naysayers in any deal we do. If they say you can only get loans that doesnt go above £23 mill, (the cash the club is still reported to have), then Arnold and Murtough could be the best pair of CEO DOF in the world and it wouldnt make any difference.
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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For anyone that wants to know more about Murtough, then read the fantastic piece below from The Times' football journalist Jonathan Northcroft from last week, who has gone into quite a bit of detail explaining the changes Murtough is making and how he had taken note of ten Hag's name when ten Hag was the manager at Utrecht and Murtough had sent youngster Willock on loan to Utrecht in 2017.
Northcroft also goes on to say that Murtough along with Dominic Jordan (Head of data science) applied a data model with a set criteria to select ten Hag as the best candidate for Man Utd.
Johnathan Northcroft: "With all the best candidates — bar Antonio Conte — in work, he took the decision to appoint an interim and buy time, and so Ralf Rangnick arrived. In the background, Murtough’s departments got to work. Dom Jordan, United’s director of data science, built a model that identified which elite managers fitted United best, asking questions such as: “Whose playing style links to the club’s traditions in terms of being exciting, attacking and having intensity and tempo?” “Who gives youngster a chance?” “Who makes players better?”
"United’s analysts studied candidates’ teams, their performance people profiled the fitness of candidates’ squads throughout seasons, and, using a network of scouts, coaches, former players and even foreign journalists, Murtough researched candidates’ personalities and behaviours."
"Martínez was Ten Hag’s man at Ajax but was also on a list presented to him by United at their London office in April. Using a bespoke scouting database called TrackerMan, built by Murtough and the head of recruitment, Steve Brown, and added to by Jordan, the club’s “scouting machine” draws on reports from a global network of 140 scouts to produce options that are put in front of a manager once the profile for a new signing is established"
I'd say both Martinez and Casemiro were Jose Mayorga recommendations who Murtough brought in to replace the outgoing heads of scouting.
Northcroft also goes on to say that Murtough along with Dominic Jordan (Head of data science) applied a data model with a set criteria to select ten Hag as the best candidate for Man Utd.
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Johnathan Northcroft: "With all the best candidates — bar Antonio Conte — in work, he took the decision to appoint an interim and buy time, and so Ralf Rangnick arrived. In the background, Murtough’s departments got to work. Dom Jordan, United’s director of data science, built a model that identified which elite managers fitted United best, asking questions such as: “Whose playing style links to the club’s traditions in terms of being exciting, attacking and having intensity and tempo?” “Who gives youngster a chance?” “Who makes players better?”
"United’s analysts studied candidates’ teams, their performance people profiled the fitness of candidates’ squads throughout seasons, and, using a network of scouts, coaches, former players and even foreign journalists, Murtough researched candidates’ personalities and behaviours."
"Martínez was Ten Hag’s man at Ajax but was also on a list presented to him by United at their London office in April. Using a bespoke scouting database called TrackerMan, built by Murtough and the head of recruitment, Steve Brown, and added to by Jordan, the club’s “scouting machine” draws on reports from a global network of 140 scouts to produce options that are put in front of a manager once the profile for a new signing is established"
I'd say both Martinez and Casemiro were Jose Mayorga recommendations who Murtough brought in to replace the outgoing heads of scouting.
The Eriksen injury happened 2 day ago and the news on how long he would be out was probably only known last night. Should the club not have reacted?
It’s not a coincidence that 6 of the players we’ve brought in are linked to Dutch football. We also tried to sign 3 more of his former players, De Jong, Timber and Arnautovic so it’s fairly safe to assume who is in the driving seat for majority of these decisions at least.
Maybe we are or have built a much better scouting system but little evidence of it so far and a loan deal on deadline day isn’t really a fair thing to judge anyone on.
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Nicely warmed Bayerns bench for most of the season, ready for Ten Hag to run him into the ground so much he'll look like he's coughing up a furball.
bite.
bite.
I hope these keep proving me wrong. Did not expect them to make a deal so quick.
Really smart signing as well.
Really smart signing as well.
Thanks mate, looks like we brought forward our summer plan, except just on loan.
Oh sorry no I meant we were looking at him summer gone as an option. Either way he’s someone the club and EtH actually want rather than a random fit.
100% this
How i'd love to get access to 'tracker man' 
Thanks, good read
That’s interesting. Thanks!
Found the full article: archive.ph/X3Qv4
Thanks mate.
Finally doing some good work.
Isn’t it possible they were already on the list and Ten Hag chose them off said list due to him knowing them well?
Chances are these players were on the wish list for several top clubs.
Nowhere, he just wants a good old moan.
I’d be happy to give them a chance under new owners. Things have definitely shifted behind the scenes.
Interesting line from the above article, it suggest EtH was after FDJ and Casemiro, rather than the traditional narrative that the club went for Casemiro in a rush when the FDJ deal looked like it would not happen. I've seen plenty of posters here assuming that EtH didn't even want Casemiro and that he was a "club" purchase.
FDJ and Caemiro would be quite a midfield.
We went for Rabiot (which failed) and then Casemiro only because the Manager's first choice of midfielder, Frenkie De Jong, wasn't coming in the end.
Sabitzer is obviously a last minute signing due to our injury crises, but I'd imagine the manager had a big say and contribution to the speediness of the deal as he has coached at Bayern before.
So you’re saying that the manager didn’t make all the transfer decisions? So you were wrong?
Fred knew Casemiro was coming months in advance, as Casemiro told him, so he must have known too. Where does this fit with your narrative?
You’re already stretching with having to include “I’d imagine”, especially given there’s around 5 years between Erik’s time at Bayern coming to an end and Sabitzer’s time at Bayern starting.
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There's also a bit about us buying Eriksen from Ajax.
Oh I accept that there’s something in this, though Cas and Sabitzer seem to have broken the mould.
Whatever, I’m not sure it matters that much. The big change is that players are being pulled into the club by football people, rather than foisted onto it by agents and selling clubs, as I’m pretty certain was the case under Woodward.
I’m giving a bit of benefit out the doubt on that since he did train with their youth team before joining Brentford
United are on sale and the likes of Arnold's and Murtough's jobs are on the line. Its only fair that positive PR is thrown to the media so maybe they'll able to keep their job or at least to attract suitors once they are out. Let's not forget though who hired Murtough, who was called Woodward's fixer, the fact that ETH has been calling the shots on transfers instead of the DOF, who went to Barcelona and Turin only to return with his duck (with an I) in his/their hands and why we paid silly money for Antony when we could have gotten him for way cheaper.
You've literally named one signing out of the 7-8 we've made so far under ETH. Do you also think Weghorst was a Murtough/Fletcher decision too? They must have been scouting him at burnley and werder.
And as I mentioned, the first choice was FDJ. When that failed, we went to our backups - Rabiot & Casemiro. Both of whom I'd imagine the Manager had a say too. If FDJ had signed for us, that would have been 6 signings all with a dutch/ajax connection. What about going for Jurren Timber?
Its so fecking blatantly obvious yet you seem to be arguing otherwise.
Its clear for anyone to see that the Manager holds the most power and decision making despite all this talk about a football structure and what not.
Once again you're just shooting yourself in the foot with ridiculous opinions when the facts point to the contrary.
Can you identify what is wrong with Murtough?
ETH has been calling shots has he? He has been calling up agents, calling up other CEO's, he's the one negotiating wages has he? How do you know this btw?
I love how you have a go at Arnold for DoF and credit Ten Hag because, Arnold done his bit, he got the deal with Barca agreed, its the player who didn't want to come. Apparently. according to you, ETH has been calling the shots, so he failed to convince Frenkie.
So if the transfer goes through its credit Ten Hag and if it fails Arnold failed?
In respects to Turin and Rabiot, we stuck to our principles, we did not bow down to crazy amounts that they wanted in wages.
Instead, they got Casemiro, a deal you probably could not imagine ever happening, they got it done.
Right, so you know that it would have been cheaper is it? Again reading certain bits to force a narrative. Fabrizio said, it was never 60m. It was always going to be 80m, regardless you bought him on June 1st or 30th July or August.
Ten Hag also came out and said, Ajax knew from January that Antony wants to leave.
All promising reading from a credible source.
Bit of a side note, this is one of the reasons I fecking despise YT shows like United Stand. Goldbridge is an utter cnut driving nonsense conspiracies about Arnold/Murtough, it would be good if more people read the actual work they're doing to make an evaluation for themselves than listen to that footballing equivalent of Brietbart wankstain.
Finally the club is doing good and right things in the market. Long may it continue.
You're shooting yourself in the foot mate.
The club's scouting had a list but given that Rangnick and pretty much everyone was saying that the analytics were not fit for purpose and we had a new manager who had a vision for what he wanted they relied on him last summer.
They are moving to model where the panel is more long term with the scouting and analytics team and the DoF, but the manager gets a veto otherwise you get a Conte situation where you sign a player who never gets a real opportunity because he wasn't wanted by the manager
Fully agree with this, people are blinkered so much, they think these deals happen by themselves.
To be fair the poster romufc quoted has been beating the same drum for ages and will do so whatever happens.
What an absolute cnut woodward was.
I think that my initial post is quite explanatory. However let's explain further
A- Murtough was Woodward's fixer. He was his trusted man and unless you think that the CEO was playing football manager rather then working hard to service the debt and bringing in sponsors then Murtough was calling most of the shots football wise. That means that he had a finger in most of the mistakes made. As said, Woodward's fixer and all that.
B- Transfers are the DOF's domain and yet Most of the signings made were ETH's men. In few words the manager is having to step in, he has to find the players he need and he has to persuade them to come.
C- Last summer might have been one of the best we had for a long time (thanks for ETH carrying them), yet it lagged massively when compared to that of a well run club. There was the Arnautovic mess with the DOF not realising that such deal would cause a massive backlash among fans. We wasted too much time on De Jong with Arnold/Murtough going to Barcelona only to return with an egg on their face and the situation was repeated with Rabiot. These issues should have been sorted without the DOF/CEO made to look as idiots by meeting the persons themselves. We also overpaid massively for Casemiro, Antony (who was available for cheaper at the start of the summer) and Martinez. That might be insignificant among the 'not my money' brigade but that is probably the reason why we are reduced to loan deals instead of buying.
Whoever comes to United will have a big job in his hands that will cost loads of money. There's the squad that need to be reinforced, the stadium need to be rebuild and Carrington that need to be modernized. That require loads of time and money. He should bring in experienced people in the job who can provide alternative players to what ETH want, who has the spine to tell him not to waste time on a player who simply doesn't come and who can go around the negotiation table without getting fecked royally.
The thing is, if lets say this was someone else the club hired, they'd be saying things like, this is why you hire proper people, this is what we should have done 5 years ago.
Change happened last January, we are a year in and we have clearly seen changes.
I mean the first big change was they employed Ten Hag and Arnold has let Fletcher and Murtough run with it. In the previous regime, do you not think our manager would have been Poch?
Twitter is so shit nowadays, comments nothing but toxic ramblings...
Twitter is so shit nowadays, comments nothing but toxic ramblings...