It’s clearly not the only relevant bit because multiple players put their hands up yet only one got sent off. To understand why you have to somehow differentiate between what Casemiro did that was so much worse than what Ayew, for example, did. Which is that they believed that Casemiro was holding Hughes in a chokehold. Something which, based on evidence, some of which was available at the time but deliberately not shown to the referee, was shown not to be the case, especially given the context of other footage that has later appeared on the internet.
So... Was it a red? (Casemiro / Hughes Royal Rumble)
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I said multiple times that there were other players who should've been sent off too.
It does not absolve Casemiro one bit.
we’ll take it!
Has anyone said he strangled him?
Yeah, I think that is the best we can hope for, probably a one match ban.
I think the ref should've sent off Ayew too, and alongside the yellows for Schlupp and Antony it would've been an OK result of the incident.
The refs messed it up but as far as Casemiro's red card is concerned, that was the right decision in my book.
I’m assuming that the referee’s match report is saying exactly that because that’s what the VAR told him and that’s what the VAR attempted to show him by slowly looping the footage from the side that we now know falsely makes it look like he’s choking him.
The words ‘choke’ and ‘chokehold’ have been used. It’s the same thing, don’t be pedantic
A matter of opinion then, but for me it's no different than a push or shove and that usually just gets ignored as handbags.
I've seen similar situations where people grab like that and not get sent off, so it's frustrating.
I GENUINELY don't think he would have been sent off if he was shown the rear footage instead.
This
Yeah but we have several angles and a few days to study it, absolutely pathetic that the ref was only shown one and it was the one that made him look like Homer killing Bart
Nobody who used either choke or chokehold in the last few pages was one of the people suggesting Casemiro did anything more than hold his collar (Zlatan and Anustart) though.
Why you little……
It does not but it questions the referee’s objectivity when he’s intentionally misrepresented a situation with the images to make it look like something to the main referee. Nobody’s calling for Ayew to get retrospectively banned because nobody really expects him to get sent off there, and a more honest and objective referee would have looked at the situation, seen that he indeed wasn’t strangling him and let it go. But this guy, whoever Tony Harrington is, obviously wanted to enter proceedings and did so in a dishonest way.
I just strongly disagree with the statements that “once the hands go up then you’re off” because it obviously doesn’t apply for the same ref if you’re not Casemiro, so it’s obvious that if the ref had not focused on the angle that doesn’t show that he’s got him by the collar then he wouldn’t have been sent off.
Incorrect I'm afraid.
No don’t agree, ayew should have gone too
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referring to 6 to the fans is probably the Liverpool 6 CL titles. I have no other explanation.
Rashford, Shaw, varane, Fred, Martinez, wan bissaka, ayew, schlupp and more all put their hands up. There has to be some common sense applied to these melees
he got the yellow card after the fight was over. In the other words, he won’t get any punishment if there was no fight and the game would continue with us taking threw.
It’s not a matter of splitting hairs when differentiating between a grip on someone’s wind-pipe vs their collar.
I’m with you, I wouldn’t mind getting more stringent and stomping things out. But it’s all or nothing. You achieve very little by just making a statement with a Casemiro red. Feel free to bemoan the current regulations, but I really don’t get why you’re troubled by people saying Casemiro’s red is harsh, and maybe even flat-out wrong when you consider how these things go.
What a prick. I think that answers any question of him coming to Casemiro's aid.
I think I'm convinced now. Definitely a red card, and Hughes should press charges for assault as well. Casemiro nearly ripped out his throat there.
Schluup deserved a red for his hit on Antony. If tge officiating clamped down on that, there wouldn't be the mess that there was afterwards.
The right decision would have been to book both Casemiro and Ayew, but there’s no doubt that Marriner was within his right to send off Casemiro. However, having made that decision, he should have also sent off Ayew.
But now that we’re here, the ban should be reduced to one match. There was clearly 100% without question no violent intent whatsoever.
But now that we’re here, the ban should be reduced to one match. There was clearly 100% without question no violent intent whatsoever.
I’ve just reviewed footage posted by The Mirror — yes, but it is footage — that shows Casemiro and Hughes hugging and laughing after it was over.
It's a red card offence once you put your hands up on another player like that, whether it be neck or collar. The problem is it's incredibly poor officiating to punish one isolated incident in a melee. Either everyone who had their hands up where it doesn't belong get sent off or you dish out a few yellows and warn both teams to calm down. As ETH said it's inconsistent, why we get singled out but others get a pass.
@Dion views have influenced a few voters as it's now Red 34.2% and Yellow 33.8% but still close
A good morning northwards.
Both a grip on someone’s wind-pipe and on their collar is red in my book. Differentiation is all fine by me when it comes to the number of match bans, afterwards; but on the pitch, from a ref's perspective, it is exactly that, splitting hairs, I'm afraid. Hence my statement, yet I'll admit it achieves little.
Let's not get a quote ping pong get the better of us; you are right, everyone sees it their way, and I'm aware my stance may simply not be shared. I can't see how the ref could not have shown red, but that doesn't make me want to fall on your nerves, or someone elses, if I'm honest. Anyway, rules are there, enforcing not really, and better refereeing is definitively appropriate. Have a great day!
You are absolutely right. No idea what made me think it was a Scottish accent. apologies, although in my defence I do have an ear infection!Ha, well they are the exact words that Chris Waddle said on 5 Live yesterday during the matchwaddle's comment halfway down the page
Luckily Hughes didn't have a problem with breathing after that.
Liverpool fan being pathetic shocker.
It’s not close. It’s 34% red 55% yellow/no card
EXACTLY….If you’re sending players off for simply raising their hands then that applies to everyone who raised their hands in the melee. It has to.
If that’s not the case then context and weight come into it. The context of Casemiro actually stopping Hughes from getting to Antony, explaining to him part way through, hugging and smiling afterwards completely ignored. The weight of the offence was given in a totally misrepresented light that couldn’t have looked worse or be much different from what actually happened.
Seems like some want to just shut this debate down and force everyone down to having to agree with them by removing any context. Then your point is 100% correct. If context doesn’t come into it then everyone with raised hands is off.
There was no force he was holding him, but putting your hand on someone's neck is a red still, hold his torso or his shirt.
Holding by the neck I think should be a red, just as any action on a players face or head.
Ayew maybe should have faced punishment too.
There is a lack of consistency with VAR but you can't look at a video and decide how much force is used that's the problem.
It was a red but what angers me is the same thing you wrote and ETH mentioned, lack of consistency.
What did Ayew do btw?
Also Fred was a bit daft too, he waved his hands towards a Palace player but it didn't connect.
But why?
We see late cynical challenges that actually hurt players all the time, nasty challenges that puts players out for a few weeks, maybe months, all the time. And these are rarely, very rarely red cards. Touching someone in the face or nearby doesn´t endanger their health.
It’s stranage to see so many pundits side with United on something. Richard Keyes Andy Gray Linekar Shearer Wright Waddle all in agreement that this was misrepresented to the referee and what actually happened didn’t warrant a red. Waddle calling it one of the worst decisions he’s ever seen. In isolation it isn’t. But in the context of the melee it absolutely is.
What is worse for me is that you have to question the integrity of VAR.
What is worse for me is that you have to question the integrity of VAR.