Considering how little anyone bothered Vidic, twice was more than enough. It wasn't a narrative and for some reason Bellamy also gave him issues a couple of times. Everyone has a player they struggle with. Evra had Aaron Lennon and Rio had Yakubu.Vidic had like 1-2 poor games against Torres in all the times he faced him. Think this narrative keeps getting thrown out there.
"Vidic couldn't handle Torres" was absolutely a narrative, and a false one.Considering how little anyone bothered Vidic, twice was more than enough. It wasn't a narrative and for some reason Bellamy also gave him issues a couple of times. Everyone has a player they struggle with. Evra had Aaron Lennon and Rio had Yakubu.
That's what made the Rio and Vidic partnership great because Rio had no issue marking out the likes of Torres and Bellamy and Yakubu was the perfect type of striker for Vidic to defend.
Well, yes, but in a sensible discussion, one should let the consistent performances win the argument instead of a couple of bad ones. It's like saying DDG is a poor shot stopper because of his first few months at United.Possibly but big mistakes tend to stick with people more than consistent performances. I could be wrong but I believe he struggled in a few games against Torres. Not just the game he was sent off and run around. But it was years ago so again I could be remembering wrong.
He was stripped by Torres for a goal in that 1-4 defeat at Old Trafford, but outside of that I cannot recall any big moments, where Torres got the better of him. I do remember Torres outpacing and outmuscling Ferdinand for a goal at Anfield though."Vidic couldn't handle Torres" was absolutely a narrative, and a false one.
Last season he wasn't this bad so can we fairly say that his knee injury is the maik reason he's turned into shit now ? Isn't it more likely that he simply declined ?
Mostly, but his contributions for a couple of seasons were really good, and considering how few goals they conceded, there was a genuine argument to be made. However, now that he needs to do actual defending and not having Henderson to do it all for him, he's repeatedly shown that he's below average in terms of defending for sure. That makes it very hard to justify any world class label in that position. One could argue the same with Ederson, for instance, that his brilliant distribution masked the fact that he's not a great shot stopper or even goalie in general.Yeah that would be a short argument too.
That Rio incident is when Ferguson called Rio to his office to ask what was wrong, and Rio had to admit that he had been carrying a pretty severe back injury for a year or so. So that was not prime Rio losing, it was an injured one.He was stripped by Torres for a goal in that 1-4 defeat at Old Trafford, but outside of that I cannot recall any big moments, where Torres got the better of him. I do remember Torres outpacing and outmuscling Ferdinand for a goal at Anfield though.
Bellamy give Rio trouble as well at timesConsidering how little anyone bothered Vidic, twice was more than enough. It wasn't a narrative and for some reason Bellamy also gave him issues a couple of times. Everyone has a player they struggle with. Evra had Aaron Lennon and Rio had Yakubu.
That's what made the Rio and Vidic partnership great because Rio had no issue marking out the likes of Torres and Bellamy and Yakubu was the perfect type of striker for Vidic to defend.
Rio was world class, best defender I've ever seen. Complete modern defender, but man was he prone to a brain fart.Bellamy give Rio trouble as well at times
In Torres 2.5 years when he was top class, no Vidic couldn't. Our defence as a whole? Possibly yes but at the time you never wanted Vidic isolated with Torres which is why Rio took him."Vidic couldn't handle Torres" was absolutely a narrative, and a false one.
As l said, he had a couple of good games against United. What were these examples of Vidic being unable to handle Torres?In Torres 2.5 years when he was top class, no Vidic couldn't. Our defence as a whole? Possibly yes but at the time you never wanted Vidic isolated with Torres which is why Rio took him.
Like I said no one else other than Bellamy even presented a test for Vidic, he was dominating everybody so the times Torres troubled him was more than enough for that statement to have some truth in it.
Literally one of the weirdest things in football this myth. Vidic fell over chasing Torres back once because he miscontrolled a ball ."Vidic couldn't handle Torres" was absolutely a narrative, and a false one.
Are you expecting me to produce videos of their 1v1 duels?As l said, he had a couple of good games against United. What were these examples of Vidic being unable to handle Torres?
As someone who despises Pool and would like nothing more than for this to be true, it's way off. He's the CB we should have bought back in 2017, he was world class essentially until his injury and since then he's been relatively average because he doesn't have the dynamism/pace that allowed him to sit off players and then react.Gonna be honest and come out now. I didn't understand the hype surrounding him even during his best spell at Liverpool. And it's not because he is a Liverpool player either. I can't say nothing less than world class for both Salah and Mane but Van Dijk seems to be one of those good players that became "world class" because he was playing for one of the best clubs in the world rather than by his own merit.
Yes, he was good in the air, good distribution and quick. But which top defenders don't have those these days? I wouldn't play him ahead of other top class CBs on their days like Rio, Vidic, Terry and even today I wouldn't play him ahead of Varane and Martinez. I'm glad he didn't win Ballon D'or over Messi because that'd be stupid. On top of that there's always this 'funny and made up' stat that says he never get dribbled past but he did though, multiple times in fact, he just had a streak where he didn't for quite some time but everyone and their mothers (on twitter especially) think you can't get through him. And the reason for that streak is obvious, he was playing for a top team that presses very well and very successfully. Put him at a mid table club and he'd get dribbled past every week and yes there's an event that backed it up, the streak ended because of Nicolas Pepe. Nicolas Pepe out of all talented dribbles in the league. Which begs the question was Nicolas Pepe aka Arsenal reject that good or other dribbles simply didn't have a good attempt, didn't bother and there's so much to a football match than trying to dribble past someone when there are other players chasing and pressing you around like rabid dogs?
A GK that never has to face a shot on goal in 56 matches will have 56 clean sheets, that doesn't mean nobody can score against him.
Torres scored 3 goals in 15 games against Vidic. Beyond the 2009 horror show where Vidic got sent off after miscontrolling, he generally did well vs Torres. Rio talking about something over a decade later doesn't disprove that its a narrative, its easy to misremember when you constantly hear the same thing - it also reads like he remembers it as Vidic consistently getting sent off against Torres "early on,", when one was a last minute elbow on Alonso, another a late foul on Kuyt, and another on Gerrard.Are you expecting me to produce videos of their 1v1 duels?
A striker having a good game against Rio or Vidic or any defender is pretty normal. What wasn't completely abnormal at the time was Vidic having a stinker in back to back against the same striker. That proves he struggled. I doubt Lennon gave Evra issues more than two or three times but it was enough for it to be a thing.
Torres got washed up pretty quickly after that so there's no point in asking for other examples.
Rio's own words to prove it wasn't a narrative.
'Trust me. Listen, strikers were playing out on the wings sometimes because they didn't want to come up against us, it was mad!
'There's always going to be that one player in your career who's difficult. He might not be the best player on the planet, but his style is made to hurt your style. And Torres might have just been that for Nemanja.
'He's someone he found difficult to play against. And he's probably the only player I've seen consistently give Vida a hard time, and he got sent off in a couple of the games didn't he, early on in the games.
'But listen, Torres was a great player and when he was in his pomp when he was at Liverpool, he was one of the best strikers about. He was a devastating striker. But with me one-v-one, he didn't cause me any problems if I'm honest.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Torres-style-football-hurt-Nemanja-Vidic.html
Kompany was a top defender and a much better one than VVD.This guy was at Celtic and Southampton until he was 27, then had a brief spell at the top and became massively overrated.
Kompany had a better career.
Ahh so you're more clued up than Rio, the person who played alongside Vidic for 8 years.Torres scored 3 goals in 15 games against Vidic. Beyond the 2009 horror show where Vidic got sent off after miscontrolling, he generally did well vs Torres. Rio talking about something over a decade later doesn't disprove that its a narrative, its easy to misremember when you constantly hear the same thing - it also reads like he remembers it as Vidic consistently getting sent off against Torres "early on,", when one was a last minute elbow on Alonso, another a late foul on Kuyt, and another on Gerrard.
If your argument is 2 games of Vidić apparently having a stinker vs Torres is enough to be a thing you might as well produce videos yes.Are you expecting me to produce videos of their 1v1 duels?
A striker having a good game against Rio or Vidic or any defender is pretty normal. What wasn't completely abnormal at the time was Vidic having a stinker in back to back against the same striker. That proves he struggled. I doubt Lennon gave Evra issues more than two or three times but it was enough for it to be a thing.
Torres got washed up pretty quickly after that so there's no point in asking for other examples.
Rio's own words to prove it wasn't a narrative.
'Trust me. Listen, strikers were playing out on the wings sometimes because they didn't want to come up against us, it was mad!
'There's always going to be that one player in your career who's difficult. He might not be the best player on the planet, but his style is made to hurt your style. And Torres might have just been that for Nemanja.
'He's someone he found difficult to play against. And he's probably the only player I've seen consistently give Vida a hard time, and he got sent off in a couple of the games didn't he, early on in the games.
'But listen, Torres was a great player and when he was in his pomp when he was at Liverpool, he was one of the best strikers about. He was a devastating striker. But with me one-v-one, he didn't cause me any problems if I'm honest.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Torres-style-football-hurt-Nemanja-Vidic.html
I literally stated that its easy to forget things a decade later...Ahh so you're more clued up than Rio, the person who played alongside Vidic for 8 years.
The 3 in 15 stat is completely irrelevant as no one gives a damn about the washed up version at Chelsea, it's strictly about his time at Liverpool which I've spoken of and Rio has referenced too. But if Rio isn't enough proof for you then there's really no point going any further on this.
Rio also said he had no problem dealing with Torres when Torres used his strength and pace to hold off Rio and scored goal (IIRC) and also there was one more instance when Rio was easily beaten.Ahh so you're more clued up than Rio, the person who played alongside Vidic for 8 years.
The 3 in 15 stat is completely irrelevant as no one gives a damn about the washed up version at Chelsea, it's strictly about his time at Liverpool which I've spoken of and Rio has referenced too. But if Rio isn't enough proof for you then there's really no point going any further on this.
Vidic got sent off once against Liverpool, that too not because of Torres. Moreover, Torres was great at that time but I don't recollect Vidic struggling against him. He was a tough opponent but the narrative is as if prime Torres destroyed Vidic which is nowhere near true.Are you expecting me to produce videos of their 1v1 duels?
A striker having a good game against Rio or Vidic or any defender is pretty normal. What wasn't completely abnormal at the time was Vidic having a stinker in back to back against the same striker. That proves he struggled. I doubt Lennon gave Evra issues more than two or three times but it was enough for it to be a thing.
Torres got washed up pretty quickly after that so there's no point in asking for other examples.
Rio's own words to prove it wasn't a narrative.
'Trust me. Listen, strikers were playing out on the wings sometimes because they didn't want to come up against us, it was mad!
'There's always going to be that one player in your career who's difficult. He might not be the best player on the planet, but his style is made to hurt your style. And Torres might have just been that for Nemanja.
'He's someone he found difficult to play against. And he's probably the only player I've seen consistently give Vida a hard time, and he got sent off in a couple of the games didn't he, early on in the games.
'But listen, Torres was a great player and when he was in his pomp when he was at Liverpool, he was one of the best strikers about. He was a devastating striker. But with me one-v-one, he didn't cause me any problems if I'm honest.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Torres-style-football-hurt-Nemanja-Vidic.html
I think posters are taking this too literal and being a bit precious about it too. Vidic is one of the greatest ever and saying there was only one player that gave him issues at a point in time is actually a testament to his greatness.Rio also said he had no problem dealing with Torres when Torres used his strength and pace to hold off Rio and scored goal (IIRC) and also there was one more instance when Rio was easily beaten.
Players are also humans who tend to change their view based on the narrative that's drummed all the time.
Also Torres troubled Vidic for 2 games, that's a very poor sample size to use for anything. If the argument is "no one ever troubled Vidic, so 2 is a lot" then yes, Torres was probably the player who troubled him most.
I remember those intense physical battles with Diego Costa when he was at Chelsea.Kompany was a top defender and a much better one than VVD.
That's going overboard the other way. Was he better than Baresi, Maldini, Nesta etc?Rio was world class, best defender I've ever seen. Complete modern defender, but man was he prone to a brain fart.
Likewise people are taking couple of good games into some sort of consistent theme, like how Drogba used to terrorize Arsenal defense. Sample size is negligible and I don't remember Torres having many good games against Vidic except 2 or 3. There are couple of incidents that stood out and people somehow think that happened all the time.I think posters are taking this too literal and being a bit precious about it too. Vidic is one of the greatest ever and saying there was only one player that gave him issues at a point in time is actually a testament to his greatness.
Strikers can get the better of a defender at any time for a goal that doesn't necessarily mean they gave you issues consistently. Torres probably wasn't the only person to score on Rio in such a manner.
The issue is people equating goals scored as the only evidence. There is 90 minutes in a match and within this I certainly remember Vidic being troubled by Torres more than I've ever seen him by anyone else. This season Gabriel Jesus didn't score against us in our win at OT but he gave Varane a torrid time. So my point is using goals scored against someone as the only factor is a weak argument.
Rio shares my exact thoughts of how I remember it. It was shortlived of course because Torres turned shite but it did exist.
Not really - people who watched Utd regularly back then just know it's a false narrative, that none of your posts has disproved, and that he actually dealt with him fine. You're the type of person who explains why this myth still persists to this day. It is, however, just that - a myth.I think posters are taking this too literal and being a bit precious about it too.
Its all relative isn't it. Torres only played against Vidic 6 times as a Liverpool player so if he caused Vidic problems in 2 or 3 of those games that's a pretty big deal considering no one ever gave Vidic problems except in one off bad games. Only other person I recall getting the best of prime Vidic in b2b games is Messi and that was two years apart with an even smaller sample size.Likewise people are taking couple of good games into some sort of consistent theme, like how Drogba used to terrorize Arsenal defense. Sample size is negligible and I don't remember Torres having many good games against Vidic except 2 or 3. There are couple of incidents that stood out and people somehow think that happened all the time.
Very much this. He caught people’s eye because he was essentially the DLP. Their defensive stats weren’t built on their defence being great they were built on the fact they played in their opponents half and their front three and the three behind them used to snuff out any attacks before they developed.He's basically Pique. A good to great defender who hugely benefited from a system that meant that they had very little defending to do. Both good passers of the ball but protected by the pressing monsters in front of them.
Considering Rio seems to be of the impression that Vidic was sent off for fouls on Torres, and that he was consistently troubled by him, I'd say it's pretty clear he's had his recollection altered by narratives, yes.Ahh so you're more clued up than Rio, the person who played alongside Vidic for 8 years.
I've argued on here before that the bolded is true for all CB's.His job as a centre-back was made preposterously easy by how efficient Liverpool’s tactics were in that 2018-2021 period: quick, aggressive pressing (and counter-pressing) from their attackers and midfielders forced opponents to lump balls forward to a lone striker - who often was diminutive compared to van Dijk - and van Dijk would have a simple knock-down header to the three (THREE!) retreating workhorse midfielders Klopp picked religiously and this pattern was repeated ad nauseum.
Klopp allowing Wijnaldum and Mane to leave (two elite pressers) and not replacing Milner and Henderson with younger, fitter workhorses (instead shoe-horning a luxury player in Thiago into the midfield) means that Van Dijk doesn’t have the protection he was afforded in this Liverpool team’s pomp.
I’d argue this level of ‘defending’ was never far from the surface with Van Dijk but it was the sheer efficiency of their system - and unadventurous opponents until recently - which protected him.
