Players like Harry Kane: Do you respect them for going down with the ship, or are they wasting their careers?

[Ødegaard]

Hard to respect a guy who swore on his daughters life that he touched a ball he didn't touch to get a insignificant goal attributed to him, or respect him for loyalty shown to a club he tried desperately to get away from (but failed) after being stupid and signing a ridiculously long contract.

 

[The Firestarter]

If he had an actual brain or an agent with one he would have lifted a couple of cups already.

 

[elisha27]

To many he will be remembered as a much more talented Steve Bull or Matt Le Tissier if he doesnt move somewhere and win something.

You'd really consider Kane much more talented than Le Tissier? On talent alone, I'd be struggling to think of many PL players that could match Le Tissier.

 

[Beachryan]

Will he go down as the best English player in history to not lift a single trophy?

Mad that.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Would Totti have been bigger name had he moved to Real or Juventus and won a title or two, in process not becoming Roma's best player ever?

I'm hundred percent sure he wouldn't.

Well, winning the World Cup definitely helps.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Did Totti waste his career?

Did Robson?

Totti won the serie A and a few cups with Roma, a bit different.

 

[duffer]

Did Totti waste his career?

Did Robson?

Totti won the league and multiple cups with Roma, not to mention the world cup.

Robson won 2 leagues and a ton of cups (including in Europe).

Could they have won more if they'd moved to better sides? Sure but they still won more than 99% of other professionals.

Kane on the other hand has won nothing at all so it's not a great comparison.

 

[The Urban Goose]

No respect from me, utter waste of a career.

 

[edcunited1878]

I respect Kane for being loyal to Tottenham and trying to be the focal point of a trophy winning team. Levy is also a massive reason he hasn't won anything, because Kane would have been at City by now and won a trophy but Levy is a two faced bastard with no shame.

It'll be another 5 to 6 years before he is seriously in shout of over taking Shearer. He'll want to be the main man for another 3 to 4 years wherever that is in England to maximize his goal output.

Either way, he's a legendary player without the unnecessary noise. Fair play.

 

[Bert_]

Will he go down as the best English player in history to not lift a single trophy?

Mad that.

Good chance he ends up the greatest player in history not to lift a single trophy! Probably will end up the Premier leagues all time top scorer despite having won nothing at all.

Can't think of anyone (in recent history anyway) who's played at the top level for as long as he has without anything.

 

[massi83]

One has to be rather clueless to compare Totti and Kane. It is one of the laziest comparisons in football history. Totti was far superior player in almost all aspects of football. And won plenty of things. Also Roma was competitive during most of his time, as they finished 2nd 9 times, yes nine. And couple of times in third.

 

[giorno]

The ship in question is Spurs. Hard to respect that. They hit that shit spot of big but not culturally significant

Like nobody(outside local rivalries) hates them, but also nobody's gonna cheer on them either. Too big to be lovable underdogs, not big enough for people to care about them

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Waste of career, the best will only be recognised by their goals 2nd and trophies wins first.

 

[Jacob]

If you have ambitions but stay out of loyalty, I have no respect to give. Of course some patience is needed but not an entire career.

 

[bosnian_red]

We often talk about loyalty but it's easy to give loyalty as a player when your team is always competing for trophies. Staying loyal when you aren't is much more impressive.

 

[Gavinb33]

Fans cry loyalty all the time and then when it's not someone who plays for their team they cry they don't leave, football fans are an odd bunch

 

[redsunited]

Spurs would have sold or not given a contract extention if Harry Kane is not scoring enough regardless of whether he is a spurs fan or not.

He has already given more than enough for loyalty. Already he seems like a looser, Anymore of his prime years spent in Spurs is his stupidity.

 

[adexkola]

Totti won the serie A and a few cups with Roma, a bit different.

Bad answer.

This isn't a binary question. Totti had the talent to win way more with Juventus/Milan/Madrid. He obviously left some trophies on the table.

Does this question go away if Harry Kane wins 2 Carling Cups with Spurs?

 

[adexkola]

Fans cry loyalty all the time and then when it's not someone who plays for their team they cry they don't leave, football fans are an odd bunch

Very odd and annoying bunch.

 

[duffer]

Bad answer.

This isn't a binary question. Totti had the talent to win way more with Juventus/Milan/Madrid. He obviously left some trophies on the table.

Does this question go away if Harry Kane wins 2 Carling Cups with Spurs?

If he wins the same as Totti did (the league and two cup plus a world cup) then yes, I don't think anyone would suggest he's wasted his career.

 

[adexkola]

If he wins the same as Totti did (the league and two cup plus a world cup) then yes, I don't think anyone would suggest he's wasted his career.

Why? He could have won much more elsewhere.

I'm trying to make people see the idiocy in the premise of "a wasted career" that is no longer applicable after just 1 league title is won, not considering the opportunity cost of many trophies potentially won elsewhere.

 

[simplyared]

If ever there was a player who showed loyalty to his club it must be Gerrard. Obviously being a Scouser himself contributes to that. Ask a Liverpool fan who is bigest legend, favo player of all time , you name it.99% would say Gerrard! Question is, what would have happened to his legacy if he'd have gone to Mourinho's Chelsea. I reckon he did right sticking by Liverpool even if the Slippy G label would have been avoided if he'd have made that move. However I do believe a move abroad to Real Madrid for example could have enhanced his career further and made him an even bigger player. I reckon home fans are inclined to accept their idols moving abroad a lot better than moving to rivals in the prem. Hence Gerrard could have been acclaimed even higher if he'd made that move and he'd have kept his legacy in tact with the Liverpool fans.
As for Kane, and me being a utd fan, I'd love to see him at OT in the summer selfish as I am. However I reckon if he does move it should be abroad for the same reasons as with Gerrard.

 

[MadMike]

The ship in question is Spurs. Hard to respect that. They hit that shit spot of big but not culturally significant

Like nobody(outside local rivalries) hates them, but also nobody's gonna cheer on them either. Too big to be lovable underdogs, not big enough for people to care about them

Just about big enough for people to make lotsa jokes about them every time they bottle a winnable cup competition. Which happens every year without fail.

 

[adexkola]

The ship in question is Spurs. Hard to respect that. They hit that shit spot of big but not culturally significant

Like nobody(outside local rivalries) hates them, but also nobody's gonna cheer on them either. Too big to be lovable underdogs, not big enough for people to care about them

Another thing that never fails to intrigue me is how English football fans, a section of society that leans Republican (anti-royalist), can be so... "elitist" regarding football clubs

@giorno doesn't count he's just a prop for a half formed thought

 

[duffer]

Why? He could have won much more elsewhere.

I'm trying to make people see the idiocy in the premise of "a wasted career" that is no longer applicable after just 1 league title is won, not considering the opportunity cost of many trophies potentially won elsewhere.

Because "some trophies or more trophies" is not remotely the same thing as "no trophies or trophies".

 

[adexkola]

Because "some trophies or more trophies" is not remotely the same thing as "no trophies or trophies".

1 trophy or 3 trophies is not remotely the same as many trophies or a lot of trophies

If that difference matters less than the difference between "no trophies" and 1 trophy, in determining whether a player "wasted his career" then the conversation is ridiculous to begin with. That's what I'm saying.

Any frame of classification that says Kane wasted his career yet Totti didn't (seeing he could have won A LOT more elsewhere) is stupid.

 

[duffer]

1 trophy or 3 trophies is not remotely the same as many trophies or a lot of trophies

If that difference matters less than the difference between "no trophies" and 1 trophy, in determining whether a player "wasted his career" then the conversation is ridiculous to begin with. That's what I'm saying.

Any frame of classification that says Kane wasted his career yet Totti didn't (seeing he could have won A LOT more elsewhere) is stupid.

Totti won the league, the domestic cup and the World cup. All he is missing is a Champions League and that's pretty much everything worth winning.

Kane has won nothing so far.

I personally don't think Kane will have "wasted his career" but if he ends up trophyless, he's in the same bracket as Le Tissier, not Totti.

1, Won loads
2, Should have won more
3, Won feck all.

There's a difference between 2 and 3 in my opinion.

 

[adexkola]

Totti won the league, the domestic cup and the World cup. All he is missing is a Champions League and that's pretty much everything worth winning.

Kane has won nothing so far.

I personally don't think Kane will have "wasted his career" but if he ends up trophyless, he's in the same bracket as Le Tissier, not Totti.

1, Won loads
2, Should have won more
3, Won feck all.

There's a difference between 2 and 3 in my opinion.

Then we agree!

I don't think Totti wasted his career. It was a beautiful one.

 

[Maluco]

Why do people keep comparing his situation to players that have won trophies?

Totti is the worst example yet, in that, he won a World Cup, he won a league title and he had a love affair with Roma that was unwavering.

Kane has won nothing and very clearly, obviously and publicly, expressed his desire to leave.

It’s not even close to being the same thing.

 

[JimmyWils]

It would be strange to me if he decided not to leave now that he's beaten Spurs' scoring record. He's bound to beat Shearer's record at some point and quite why he would be willing to do that and not grab some silverware to go with it, I would never understand.

Then again, different strokes for different folks and if he's happy doing it and ending his career at Spurs then that's his choice isn't it.

 

[giorno]

Another thing that never fails to intrigue me is how English football fans, a section of society that leans Republican (anti-royalist), can be so... "elitist" regarding football

It's not english football fans, it's football fans in general, the english are actually among the least guilty of this. It is what it is, football is our escape and we want things going our way at least here

 

[Bosnian_fan]

I'm not sure World Cup should be used as an example in this comparison, because winning it has nothing to do with club career.

 

[Maluco]

I'm not sure World Cup should be used as an example in this comparison, because winning it has nothing to do with club career.

It is the biggest trophy in football. If you have it, you have won the most special one there is. If England had won the World Cup, that would have been the defining moment of his career. Nothing he could have done in club football would have eclipsed it.

It’s a completely different conversation then.

 

[Ramshock]

You'd really consider Kane much more talented than Le Tissier? On talent alone, I'd be struggling to think of many PL players that could match Le Tissier.

Yeah, I mean close technically but Kane scored way more goals.

 

[DJ Jeff]

When Kane finally makes a move, 5 years too late, he won't get much more appreciation from Spurs fans than he would have if he'd just left then.

 

[Melbourne Red]

Haven't read the thread, probably won't. I respect him for staying at his club.

 

[VP89]

I respect him. Its his decision.

 

[arthurka]

If he had an actual brain or an agent with one he would have lifted a couple of cups already.

This, hope he stays at Spuds

 

[jojojo]

I respect the fact that he's never seemed like anything other than a good professional, even when he's been thinking about transfer possibilities.

Looking at the thread title though, I'd say he's never struck me that he's "going down with the ship" more that he's been content to stay in the safety of the shallows.

I guess it doesn't seem like that from his side - a trophy with Spurs would mean a lot to him and to Spurs - more perhaps than a trophy with City or Madrid or any of the current big trophy gathering machines. Maybe he's just an optimist.

From the outside looking in though, it just feels like he's content just to be competing without the pressure of expectations.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I can't respect any top level sportsman that doesn't want to move on to better teams and win as much as possible in their short careers.