Yeah I suspect so mate.
ACTUAL POLL thread - how do you feel about potential Qatari ownership?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
No worries.
I've done several posts on INEOS, their last accounts they were showing 2b ish in cash their contribution to surplus was averaging around 1b. As for the 60b revenue, that wasn't in the group accounts. It included revenue from many sources which was difficult to identify how they were attributing revenue given they didn't fully own all the companies. Financially, I questioned where INEOS would get 8-10b from, i stand by that.
I've no idea how much HBJ is worth.
Okay.
But that has nothing to do with...anything.
INEOS/Ratcliffe won't be buying United with their own money: they will finance the deal in various ways that involve third parties (banks, loans, and so forth).
They do not propose to buy United by slapping six billion of their own money on the table.
The "92" group do just that (as far as we know): they want to buy United lock, stock and barrel (including debt), without any third-party involvement (no re-financing involved, as such, we just buy the feckin' thing and that's that).
Like I said before, the wealth required to do that: to slap six billion on the table with zero support, and with zero intent to make any short-term profit (this goes without saying: a football club simply doesn't generate much profit in and of itself) is something only an extremely wealthy party would do.
Ratcliffe is worth 20-25 billion - he doesn't do it. He's among the 100 * richest individuals on the planet - and he doesn't do it.
So, how much is whoever bankrolls "92" worth? And is it (come on now) likely that anyone from Qatar with that kind of spending power is genuinely independent (from the state)?
* Or let's say 50, actually. We could even say 30, depending.
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But the workers rights didn’t improve. And hundreds died?
Discussed in depth on here at time of the World Cup and it's absolutely clear that things have improved, still work to do of course:
https://www.ilo.org/infostories/en-GB/Stories/Country-Focus/world-cup-qatar#landing
have you read that link?
No - I just like to pick random links from the internet and post them here
And when the eyes of the world have disappeared?
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rant-workers-qatar-since-world-cup-unions-say
Like I said, still plenty of work to do
That would suggest that all the stuff in your article is happening already and they have more work to do, but it seems to me like that’s not the case and it’s gone backwards since the world cup.
Why do you object to murderers being used?
What I object to is the narrative that Brexit Jim is the good guy, this he's from Manchester thing is a joke. He's ethically questionable, that's being generous too. I'm never going to defend Qatar on its human rights issues. I want an owner who can afford the club and wipe the debt, United have had no long term security since Glazers arrived. I'm only interesting in United getting what they deserve, based on the size of club.
A) Best in class stadium and training facilities in Carrington.
B) Competitive in the transfer market and in all competitions, that means the league again.
C) Investment in the academy.
D) No debt!
That's what Qatar guarantees and what Jim doesn't. It's really that simple.
A) Best in class stadium and training facilities in Carrington.
B) Competitive in the transfer market and in all competitions, that means the league again.
C) Investment in the academy.
D) No debt!
That's what Qatar guarantees and what Jim doesn't. It's really that simple.
If I’m being honest I don’t want them as owners. On the flip side what choice do we have to secure the club financially, get the stadium refurbished or new, and compete with other state clubs. It really is a sad state of affairs with football now, states owning clubs should never have been allowed.
Made up something that is a basic fact in investing? Mate, save us all clogging up this thread and do some googling, read a couple of articles on investopedia or something.
The last sentence doesn’t make sense fyi
You might want to look up what the definition of 'murder' is - you are essentially suggesting that the Emir of Qatar is shipping in migrant workers with the specific aim of killing as many of them as possible
At best that's a bit silly, at worst it's extremist propaganda
Would “manslaughterers” be better?
Depressingly predictable.
You raised the issue of revenue, not me, and contribution to surplus might matter for INEOS. You have no idea what someone's motive is, or what they might do. Nor do i, the difference being you're happy to speculate on what they'll do, I will not.
Speculation is not fact on who is funding the Jassim bid. Save us all with your lack of knowledge go read some journals on research.
I suppose technically it's better but I don't know if you have ever visited a developing country? Health & safety protocols are generally lacking so you'll find this kind of situation throughout Asia, Africa etc. It's not unique to Qatar or the Gulf, they are slowly improving but it will take time
Workers still die every year on UK construction sites too of course:
https://www.statista.com/statistics...work-great-britain-by-employment-by-industry/
Why is a country of immense wealth a developing country?
Why are you comparing two dozen deaths in the UK with literal hundreds of deaths and people not being paid in slave like conditions?
It baffles me that you could draw a distinction.
There are no good owners lads.
But, eh, the gulf states are a lot fecking worse than the other bad options.
I’m going to create a petition to get Norway to buy us. Who’s with me?
But, eh, the gulf states are a lot fecking worse than the other bad options.
I’m going to create a petition to get Norway to buy us. Who’s with me?
Your inability to debate anyone who asks you straight questions is the worst I have seen on this forum and I’ve been here long enough to have witnessed Samssky and goldtrafford first hand.
The situation is crystal clear - no one definitively knows anything because we don’t have the information but the overwhelming majority of reputed media outlets and journalists believe there is some form of link between state and the funding for Jassim’s bid. Then there is you and Rood (who I don’t think actually agrees with you but misunderstood what a private bid meant) who are saying different.
I ask for sources, I get nothing. I ask simple questions, I get diversion. Other posters get the same, you need to improve the quality of posting on here rapidly.
The last line ‘go read some journals on research’ really sums up this lack of ability to respond. Vague, nondescript, diversionary clawing frantically at anything to cover up the lack of simple logic.
I’m neither Jesus nor mother Teresa (or uefalona’s president) to pose as the moral superior. Let them come in and overhaul installations and the squad.
Completely agree!
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There are people that believe Sheik Jassims is planning on buying the club out of his own personal wealth?
If he has £6/7 billion in cash or liquid assets to buy the club outright without debt then he is almost certainly one of the richest people in the world. At least twice as cash rich as Elon Musk. He's done well to keep that quiet!
If he has £6/7 billion in cash or liquid assets to buy the club outright without debt then he is almost certainly one of the richest people in the world. At least twice as cash rich as Elon Musk. He's done well to keep that quiet!
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say he’s a good guy. Most rhetoric around his character is negative because he’s a Tory cnut
Regardless of how rich they are, Qatar is a developing country because their natural resource wealth is a relatively recent discovery.
I's a valid criticism to say they are rich enough to be doing better in terms of workers rights.
In reality they are way behind many Western countries in infrastructure and social development, but catching up rapidly.
You want to call it murder/manslaughter in Qatar, well how about the 30 dead on construction sites in UK last year ? Is that murder too? The number shouldn't make any difference, it either is or it isn't
Anyway to me, none of this is even that relevant to the question of who is going to be the best owner for Manchester United.
If they come in and build a new stadium then it will be to UK health and safety standards, maybe they can even learn from the process and improve the situation in their own country.
I think you are being genuinely optimistic here mate but I just don't see the Qatari's people that will be working on the projects in the UK trying to take the high standard of health and safety back to Qatar. And the simple reason is because they don't have to.
The safety standards in the UK are only so high because they have to be by law (a lot of it from the EU). If the standards aren't up to scratch then workers (their families) can sue the companies if they get injured or die. Most UK companies wouldn't even spend half of what they do on Health and Safety if they could get away with it. In the past they certainly didn't before the current laws to protect workers came into effect.
In Qatar there's no such problem. It's a micro state that decides it's own laws, so whatever's cheaper is the way to go. Plus Qatar faces problems with construction the UK doesn't, for a start it's a pretty inhospitable desert where temperatures can get as hot as 50c+. There really shouldn't be major construction projects happening there all year round if health and safety was a major concern. And if it does need to happen then people shouldn't be working 11-12 hour days, 6-7 days a week with little or no water as regularly happens in a lot of companies over there according to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.
My short answer is that it likely means great things for the club on the pitch, but it is also a very depressing sign of where European football is headed.
My inabilities? Can you explain what framework and method you used to conduct a comparison analysis of debating? I ask, because your posts don't demonstrate understanding of logic.
I don't need to post several times the links to sources i have used to save you time scrolling and reading discussions. I have a different way, using academic work, and you don't like it, i get that. That is your issue. You have the option not to reply
Show the source which states there is no link to the state with the bid. I’ll wait and suspect I’ll keep waiting.My inabilities? Can you explain what framework and method you used to conduct a comparison analysis of debating? I ask, because your posts don't demonstrate understanding of logic.
I don't need to post several times the links to sources i have used to save you time scrolling and reading discussions. I have a different way, using academic work, and you don't like it, i get that. That is your issue. You have the option not to reply
This has been answered, the onus is on you to prove there is a link.
As suspected. I’m still waiting.
The onus is on you to argue in good faith and not be a troll.
Taking a position that is not speculative isn't trolling.. Perhaps stick to facts rather than make stuff up
Yeah ok. It's either naivety, pedantism or trolling. It's roundly accepted that the Qatari bid is state backed but you keep sticking your fingers in your ears demanding a smoking gun
.You support speculation I get it, it's not fact.. What you believe may approach is, you have made up. There are plenty of areas where hearsay/speculative secondary sources aren't considered credible, and dismissed.Yeah ok. It's either naivety, pedantism or trolling. It's roundly accepted that the Qatari bid is state backed but you keep sticking your fingers in your ears demanding a smoking gun
Genuine question. I proved that a certain poster was posting in bad faith like 15 pages ago. Why is this still happening?
As I said.
My glass is always half full!
Qatar is still developing on things like h&s - things are slowly improving and hopefully they keep improving
But like I said, it's not that important to the question of would be the best owner for our club anyway, more important is who can finance a much needed stadium renovation
They are one of those posters who believe (and sadly this kind of works) if you keep saying the same thing over and over people start to just accept it/let you spout your nonsense because it’s easier than engaging in a debate they’re not interested in actually having. It’s like when one of them said a private bid proved it wasn’t a state backed bid, that’s unequivocally untrue and reveals a lack of understanding but some took it as a reasonable point, I guess it sounds legitimate if you read it in passing and aren’t working/in tune with the sector.
There are some posters in here who are actually very clued up re investing who have engaged with them and got weird diversionary relies. If ever there was a sign of a troll, that’s it.