Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

[giorno]

Damn Henry was a monster in his prime. Pity his lack of CL/International success in those years kinda drops him down in any all timer lists. Skill-wise(i mean it in how good he was, not in terms of technical skills) he was as good as Dinho. But Dinho did it in CL too(and was way more spectaculat and entertaining) so...

I think if you asked french people now they'd pick Benzema ahead of Henry too

 

[FrankFoot]

Damn Henry was a monster in his prime. Pity his lack of CL/International success in those years kinda drops him down in any all timer lists. Skill-wise(i mean it in how good he was, not in terms of technical skills) he was as good as Dinho. But Dinho did it in CL too(and was way more spectaculat and entertaining) so...

I think if you asked french people now they'd pick Benzema ahead of Henry too

Henry was successful at international level, he was great in Euro 2000 and World Cup 2006.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Henry actually assisted even more (winning penalties = transfermarkt assists), making it 24G/25A that season in the PL alone for Arsenal. It was his peak season in numbers and he had a pretty decent crew around him (Pires, Bergkamp, Wiltord, Kanu, Vieira, Gilberto, Ljungberg and Edu among others). He was involved in 55% of Arsenals goals in the games he featured in all comps that season (a feat he never repeated or were close to again).

Compared to Haaland's production it is still a way to go though.
Here's all Henry's season for Arsenal in all comps:
99/00 - 26G/9A in 47 games (3311 minutes) - 127 min/G and 95 min/G+A
00/01 - 22G/11A in 53 games (4069 minutes) - 185 min/G and 123 min/G+A
01/02 - 32G/9A in 49 games (4128 minutes) - 129 min/G and 101 min/G+A
02/03 - 32G/28A in 55 games (4638 minutes) - 145 min/G and 77 min/G+A
03/04 - 39G/15A in 51 games (4459 minutes) - 114 min/G and 83 min/G+A
04/05 - 30G/15A in 42 games (3680 minutes) - 123 min/G and 82 min/G+A
05/06 - 33G/10A in 45 games (3773 minutes) - 114 min/G and 88 min/G+A
06/07 - 12G/6A in 27 games (2220 minutes) - 185 min/G and 123 min/G+A

Compared to Haaland this season:
22/23 - 51G/8A in 45 games (3497 minutes) - 69 min/G and 58 min/G+A

Haaland has since the start of the 18/19 season contributed to 52% of his teams goals in games he has featured (1,26 non penalty G+A/90 avg.).
Henry contributed 48% of his teams goals in games he featured in his 5 peak years (0,931 non penalty G+A/90 avg.)

The only caveat I’d say is that Henry played his peak in a more defensive era, goals per game hit lows of 2.4 per game in the mid-2000s, whereas this season it’s an average of 2.8 per game which is more common in recent seasons.

The league was heavily influenced by the likes of Mourinho, Benitez and Big Sam, even from memory I remember a lot of really cagey Super Sunday big matches where forwards would just get one good chance or barely get a sniff. Bigger games in particular are way more open these days and thus slightly easier to score. I still think Haaland would score more than Henry in that era, but it might be closer in the final stats.

 

[Andrade]

Damn Henry was a monster in his prime. Pity his lack of CL/International success in those years kinda drops him down in any all timer lists. Skill-wise(i mean it in how good he was, not in terms of technical skills) he was as good as Dinho. But Dinho did it in CL too(and was way more spectaculat and entertaining) so...

I think if you asked french people now they'd pick Benzema ahead of Henry too

I've had this debate with people who now pick Benzema over Henry and it makes no sense to me but there you go.

 

[Righteous Steps]

I think Haaland will beat it too. To be fair, I don't think you can sum an attacker's contribution in terms of G+A, and I'm sure Henry's impact was more than just his 44 direct goal contribution. Same for Haaland. We don't have a great way of measuring the total impact of an attacker on their team. And i think what happens is many, in lieu of that objective information, go for aesthetics as a proxy. Because Haaland could have 50% more G+A than Henry hypothetically and some would still go for the latter

Yes agree, but to be fair though this works more in Henry's favour i feel, he is the one who gets involved in play outside of just goals and assists, opens space with his dribbling, his passing that doesn't lead to assists, take free kicks, corners and progress play from deeper positions. Haaland doesn't do half as much as a footballer.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Henry actually assisted even more (winning penalties = transfermarkt assists), making it 24G/25A that season in the PL alone for Arsenal. It was his peak season in numbers and he had a pretty decent crew around him (Pires, Bergkamp, Wiltord, Kanu, Vieira, Gilberto, Ljungberg and Edu among others). He was involved in 55% of Arsenals goals in the games he featured in all comps that season (a feat he never repeated or were close to again).

Compared to Haaland's production it is still a way to go though.
Here's all Henry's season for Arsenal in all comps:
99/00 - 26G/9A in 47 games (3311 minutes) - 127 min/G and 95 min/G+A
00/01 - 22G/11A in 53 games (4069 minutes) - 185 min/G and 123 min/G+A
01/02 - 32G/9A in 49 games (4128 minutes) - 129 min/G and 101 min/G+A
02/03 - 32G/28A in 55 games (4638 minutes) - 145 min/G and 77 min/G+A
03/04 - 39G/15A in 51 games (4459 minutes) - 114 min/G and 83 min/G+A
04/05 - 30G/15A in 42 games (3680 minutes) - 123 min/G and 82 min/G+A
05/06 - 33G/10A in 45 games (3773 minutes) - 114 min/G and 88 min/G+A
06/07 - 12G/6A in 27 games (2220 minutes) - 185 min/G and 123 min/G+A

Compared to Haaland this season:
22/23 - 51G/8A in 45 games (3497 minutes) - 69 min/G and 58 min/G+A

Haaland has since the start of the 18/19 season contributed to 52% of his teams goals in games he has featured (1,26 non penalty G+A/90 avg.).
Henry contributed 48% of his teams goals in games he featured in his 5 peak years (0,931 non penalty G+A/90 avg.)

Good post thank you for taking time to do the research.

 

[mshnsh]

7 assists this season says otherwise. And these aren't 2-yard passes before a screamer - his linkup play in both Arsenal games was particularly vital to what might end up being title-winning wins.

Nobody is saying he's Messi but his passing and dribbling is perfectly competent and is getting better very quickly. You're being harsh.

I'm not arguing that he doesn't deserve praise; he does deserve it for his phenomenal goalscoring ability. I'm arguing against the over -the- top praise he is getting.

The Arsenal game was the only game where his linkup play was good. In every other game I've seen, he has basically been a pure goalscorer inside the box.

 

[mshnsh]

For me, even though I hated him at the time, Henry is the reference point for strikers in the Premier league because he is the one that scared me the most. He could score out of nothing, create for his teammates, was fecking quick and generally very dangerous. The closest thing to Henry was Suarez in his 2013/14 season.

I don't feel the same with Haaland because he looks like someone who needs to be created for rather being capable of consistently doing it on his own or consistently creating chances for others. Very similar to Shearer. I wonder how many Shearer would score playing for Pep's City.

 

[Andrade]

For me, even though I hated him at the time, Henry is the reference point for strikers in the Premier league because he is the one that scared me the most. He could score out of nothing, create for his teammates, was fecking quick and generally very dangerous. The closest thing to Henry was Suarez in his 2013/14 season.

I don't feel the same with Haaland because he looks like someone who needs to be created for rather being capable of consistently doing it on his own or consistently creating chances for others. Very similar to Shearer. I wonder how many Shearer would score playing for Pep's City.

We need to stop this 'how many would Kane or Shearer score in this City team' nonsense. The Premier League has not seen a goalscorer like Haaland. There have been scorers like him in other leagues as I've argued before, but not in the modern PL. Haaland averages nearly a goal a game for every team he plays for and currently has a goal a game record in the Champions league, which was the case at Dortmund too. Shearer and Kane have not hit numbers like that for any team ever, and they've both played for very good sides at times.

Bear in mind that we've also had Aguero playing for City for years so the clear answer to 'how many goals would Kane or Shearer score in this City team' is 'a lot, but not nearly as many as Haaland'.

 

[mshnsh]

We need to stop this 'how many would Kane or Shearer score in this City team' nonsense. The Premier League has not seen a goalscorer like Haaland. There have been scorers like him in other leagues as I've argued before, but not in the modern PL. Haaland averages nearly a goal a game for every team he plays for and currently has a goal a game record in the Champions league, which was the case at Dortmund too. Shearer and Kane have not hit numbers like that for any team ever, and they've both played for very good sides at times.

Bear in mind that we've also had Aguero playing for City for years so the clear answer to 'how many goals would Kane or Shearer score in this City team' is 'a lot, but not nearly as many as Haaland'.

Really ? Which teams Tottenham? England? Newcastle?

I'm not denying Haaland may become the greatest pure goalscorer and is the best striker right now but it is a relevant question to ask when you consider that Kane has 25 goals in the Premier league for a terrible Tottenham side. Maybe he wouldn't have as many, maybe he would. Its hypothetical.

I would not take any bundesliga/ Austrian stats seriously.

 

[stefan92]

Really ? Which teams Tottenham? England? Newcastle?

I'm not denying Haaland may become the greatest pure goalscorer and is the best striker right now but it is a relevant question to ask when you consider that Kane has 25 goals in the Premier league for a terrible Tottenham side. Maybe he wouldn't have as many, maybe he would. Its hypothetical.

I would not take any bundesliga/ Austrian stats seriously.

That's your choice, but he got the same numbers in the CL for Salzburg and Dortmund. Don't you take those seriously?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Still needs 6 goals if he's going to beat Cole's no pens record...

City have had 9(!) pens this year by the way.

 

[Andrade]

Really ? Which teams Tottenham? England? Newcastle?

I'm not denying Haaland may become the greatest pure goalscorer and is the best striker right now but it is a relevant question to ask when you consider that Kane has 25 goals in the Premier league for a terrible Tottenham side. Maybe he wouldn't have as many, maybe he would. Its hypothetical.

I would not take any bundesliga/ Austrian stats seriously.

Why would you not take Bundesliga stats seriously? That's a dumb opiniom to hold quite honestly. Will you take Champions League stats seriously? International stats seriously? Which team is better, England or Norway?

The bottom line is that Haaland already has 2 thirds of the career goals that Kane has managed and he is 7 years younger. He has more than half of Shearer's total career goals and Shearer is retired. He's a completely different beast as a goalscorer from either player. He has a shot at 800-1000 career goals if he stays fit, you think that's the case for Kane? If you want to debate whether he's a better all round footballer than Kane then you can have that debate. As a pure goalscorer it's not a debate.

 

[padr81]

Damn Henry was a monster in his prime. Pity his lack of CL/International success in those years kinda drops him down in any all timer lists. Skill-wise(i mean it in how good he was, not in terms of technical skills) he was as good as Dinho. But Dinho did it in CL too(and was way more spectaculat and entertaining) so...

I think if you asked french people now they'd pick Benzema ahead of Henry too

I've said it before but the only way I can sum up Henry, is he was both peak Aguero and peak KDB at the same time in terms of output.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Why would you not take Bundesliga stats seriously? That's a dumb opiniom to hold quite honestly. Will you take Champions League stats seriously? International stats seriously? Which team is better, England or Norway?

The bottom line is that Haaland already has 2 thirds of the career goals that Kane has managed and he is 7 years younger. He has more than half of Shearer's total career goals and Shearer is retired. He's a completely different beast as a goalscorer from either player. He has a shot at 800-1000 career goals if he stays fit, you think that's the case for Kane? If you want to debate whether he's a better all round footballer than Kane then you can have that debate. As a pure goalscorer it's not a debate.

That's the thing about Haaland. It's easy to say that scoring for this City side is easy, but he does this for every team and in every league he's played including his wildly average national team.

I really wish Haaland played for a more interesting team. Like Feyenoord.

 

[mshnsh]

Why would you not take Bundesliga stats seriously? That's a dumb opiniom to hold quite honestly. Will you take Champions League stats seriously? International stats seriously? Which team is better, England or Norway?

The bottom line is that Haaland already has 2 thirds of the career goals that Kane has managed and he is 7 years younger. He has more than half of Shearer's total career goals and Shearer is retired. He's a completely different beast as a goalscorer from either player. He has a shot at 800-1000 career goals if he stays fit, you think that's the case for Kane? If you want to debate whether he's a better all round footballer than Kane then you can have that debate. As a pure goalscorer it's not a debate.

Outside Bayern and Dortmund, the rest of the league is terrible. Anyway, it is an opinion and is based on a hypothesis. That's all. It hasn't been proven. Calling someone's opinion dumb is itself dumb and immature, especially when football is a game of opinions.

 

[Andrade]

That's the thing about Haaland. It's easy to say that scoring for this City side is easy, but he does this for every team and in every league he's played including his wildly average national team.

I really wish Haaland played for a more interesting team. Like Feyenoord.

Haha, unlikely I'm afraid. But his plan seems to be to jump around so he likely won't be at City forever. I think he has his eye on getting the kind of numbers that Messi and Ronaldo managed and he has a big head start on those guys. People like Kane and Shearer don't factor into the equation, they are all time PL/English greats but not all time world greats.

 

[cyberman]

Haha, unlikely I'm afraid. But his plan seems to be to jump around so he likely won't be at City forever. I think he has his eye on getting the kind of numbers that Messi and Ronaldo managed and he has a big head start on those guys. People like Kane and Shearer don't factor into the equation, they are all time PL/English greats but not all time world greats.

If Halaand scored 50 goals a season from now until he was 34 he would still fall short of Ronaldo. Not sure what Messi numbers are.
It’s not goals or his ability to score but being injury free and having ridiculous longevity

 

[onetwo3oclock4oclockrock]

Outside Bayern and Dortmund, the rest of the league is terrible. Anyway, it is an opinion and is based on a hypothesis. That's all. It hasn't been proven. Calling someone's opinion dumb is itself dumb and immature, especially when football is a game of opinions.

Terrible? 4 of the 16 teams in the CL Round of 16 this year were German. They are ranked number 3 in Europe in UEFAs coeff-ranking.
It's a very strong league.

 

[Andrade]

Outside Bayern and Dortmund, the rest of the league is terrible. Anyway, it is an opinion and is based on a hypothesis. That's all. It hasn't been proven. Calling someone's opinion dumb is itself dumb and immature, especially when football is a game of opinions.

He scored nearly a goal a game in one of the top leagues in Europe. 'Not taking that seriously' is a dumb opinion, I'm sorry.

 

[Andrade]

If Halaand scored 50 goals a season from now until he was 34 he would still fall short of Ronaldo. Not sure what Messi numbers are.
It’s not goals or his ability to score but being injury free and having ridiculous longevity

You should know what Messi's numbers are because he's famously about 30 goals behind Ronaldo despite playing 140 less games. However, the point about injuries and longevity is obviously correct. We'll have to wait and see if Haaland can remain fit and firing for the next decade but he is well ahead at the same age.

 

[Manncunian]

He isn’t better than Ronaldo.

This dude actually thought 2022/23 Ronaldo is better than Haaland . And actually doubled down on it several times when challenged about it.

 

[mshnsh]

He scored nearly a goal a game in one of the top leagues in Europe. 'Not taking that seriously' is a dumb opinion, I'm sorry.

No it isn't. The quality of the bundesliga outside of Bayern and Dortmund is terrible. The likes of Schalke, Leverkusen and Leipzig have been thrashed regularly by big European teams. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[stefan92]

No it isn't. The quality of the bundesliga outside of Bayern and Dortmund is terrible. The likes of Schalke, Leverkusen and Leipzig have been thrashed regularly by big European teams. Let's agree to disagree.

So what? The big European teams regularly thrash other teams in their own leagues as well.

I'm not saying that the Bundesliga is on par with the PL, the level is definitely lower, but if you follow your own argument the PL is shit because United was thrashed by Liverpool.

 

[jm99]

For me, even though I hated him at the time, Henry is the reference point for strikers in the Premier league because he is the one that scared me the most. He could score out of nothing, create for his teammates, was fecking quick and generally very dangerous. The closest thing to Henry was Suarez in his 2013/14 season.

I don't feel the same with Haaland because he looks like someone who needs to be created for rather being capable of consistently doing it on his own or consistently creating chances for others. Very similar to Shearer. I wonder how many Shearer would score playing for Pep's City.

It seems a bit strange to caveat what haaland does because of the team he plays for but then say suarez in the 13/14 season was the closest to Henry, and not mention that half of suarez' goals were against the bottom 4

 

[Red Star One]

Looks like a bad day in office, luckily for him his team wins regardless

 

[padr81]

Hit the post and was a bit unlucky today, channeled his inner Lukaku in front of goal but his link up play was good. He'll never give a penalty to another player again though

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

He’s not super clinical but what sets him apart from other strikers is his combination of size, speed and movement (which size and speed facilitate). Was similarly wasteful in a few occasions like this this season, like Assna home and Forest away, but unlike Forest away and today, he scored one of of chances in the Assna game.

 

[FrankFoot]

No it isn't. The quality of the bundesliga outside of Bayern and Dortmund is terrible. The likes of Schalke, Leverkusen and Leipzig have been thrashed regularly by big European teams. Let's agree to disagree.

You are literally praising Messi doing well in Ligue 1 with PSG, while Ligue 1 is way worse than Bundesliga (aside from PSG, the rest o french teams were terrible in the UCL and UEL this season).

Make it make sense.

 

[Gazza]

Haaland is the perfect goalscoring machine. The thing about comparisons to Shearer and Kane is that Haaland just seems almost flawless and so consistent with it. Shearer and Kane have always been fantastic Premier League strikers, but they also had dips in form which Haaland doesn't seem to go through in the same way, he really is like a machine.

 

[calodo2003]

Da fuq?

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[Berbasbullet]

Da fuq?

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honestly jesus wept.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Da fuq?

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Is he on a windup?

 

[Varun]

 

[Righteous Steps]

Da fuq?

Tweet

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[Lrf]

He’s not super clinical but what sets him apart from other strikers is his combination of size, speed and movement (which size and speed facilitate). Was similarly wasteful in a few occasions like this this season, like Assna home and Forest away, but unlike Forest away and today, he scored one of of chances in the Assna game.

35 goals from 29xG(a PL record btw) is super clinical

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

35 goals from 29xG(a PL record btw) is super clinical

I love stats as much as the next man but sometimes it’s not all that useful. The goal he scored against Arsenal at the Emptyhad for instance, was only 0,14 xG, which the model assumes that goes in once every 7 times attempted, but in reality if you are clean through with only the keeper to beat, most decent strikers would bank on themselves to score at least half the time. City finished that match with 1,68 xG! The naked eye tells you they were good for at least 3 goals in the first half alone.

What xG is really useful for is it tells you how often a player finds himself in scoring positions, and the best strikers accumulate the most xG. When it comes to being clinicality, they are by trade more clinical than a midfielder or a defender who might muck up the same chance with more regularity.

 

[Morty_]

Also, xG will probably tell you that midfielders are better finishers than strikers, cause of the occasional long range effort, which basically has zero chance of going in according to xG.
If you move a midfielder up to striker position, then they likely wont score as many as the striker would have.

 

[mshnsh]

You are literally praising Messi doing well in Ligue 1 with PSG, while Ligue 1 is way worse than Bundesliga (aside from PSG, the rest o french teams were terrible in the UCL and UEL this season).

Make it make sense.

Where does Messi come into this? I did not mention him at all.

 

[Halftrack]

I would not take any bundesliga/ Austrian stats seriously

This is an aggressively bad opinion, and also a wrong opinion.