Vinicius Junior

[top1whoisman]

Not at all "whatever the reason".

Likewise, would you be delighted if Salah left Liverpool because he got racist abuse from Utd fans or other teams' fans?

Okay maybe it was over the top. Not all fans would of course. I’d say that in Spain more than in England. My point was that not many fans care if ”their” league loses a star player if it means their rivals are weakened.

Naturally I would be disgusted if that happened.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Madrid have filed a hate crime report. Good to see that. This awful stuff needs to be handled more severely.

 

[DutchSerb]

I think it would depend on how the league would handle the outcome of the game, and nothing La Liga has done or shown so far indicates to me that they wouldn't just give 3 points to Valencia because Madrid walks off the pitch - otherwise they would have to admit that there were racist chants if they wanna give points to Madrid / punish Valencia in a way.

What's to stop their fans in such a scenario from doing it every time their own team is down? I know it's a radical suggestion, but it's pretty clear that La Liga doesn't know how to deal with this issue. So while I'd be all for Madrid walking of yesterday as it's indeed a clear sign of saying "feck you", it also worries me that the victim here would be punished twice.

You're right that's a risk but I think if you're not willing to make a sacrifice and take that risk to make a statement nothing is going to change. If a club of Real Madrid's calibre is walking off, La Liga is forced to do something, they and Barca are their sweet little favorites who could never do wrong and I find it hard to believe they would do nothing at all and just let it slide if they decided to take matters into their own hands. It wasn't just a racist remark, they where shouting monkey for 30 minutes straight. Real would have had the strongest case if they decided to walk off.

 

[Giggsyking]

Not reacting to racists further strengthens their beliefs that they have the right to be racists and is exactly the reason why issues like this are still rampant.

He is being sarcastic.

 

[Golden Nugget]

The treatment he got was disgusting and it sickens me that it’s still going on - and it’s mainly in Spain and Italy that I read about things like this - I don’t know how anyone can accept and condone it, then I read that idiotic tweet from the president who goes on and blames the victim in all of this.

Football fans are idiots - and what they did was definitely wrong - but for the President to come out with those sort of comments - it’s allowing for the idiots to continue their ways which is why it’s still going on.

 

[BlueMoonOutcast]

Javier Tebas is a disgrace. He should spend more time fixing the glaring issues in Spain instead of talking about City all the time.

Vini Jr deserves so much better than this.

 

[Trumpeter Whydah]

Saddening to read through the last pages. I have a feeling that more people are banned from this forum on behalf of what they 'contributed' to this thread, than are banned from going to LaLiga matches as a result of this latest part of an ongoing campaign against their league's best player. I mean, contemplate this for a second! It speaks volumes about awareness differences between those who won and those who lost at Trafalgar, for what it's worth. Which is of course not much in the grander scheme of things, but still good to see, to some degree. Banter is great, insults are not.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Javier Tebas is a disgrace. He should spend more time fixing the glaring issues in Spain instead of talking about City all the time.

Vini Jr deserves so much better than this.

Guardiola is also a disgrace for what he said in regards to the racist treatment suffered by Roberto Carlos.

 

[crossy1686]

If Vini ever wants out of that hell hole I'm sure we could find space for him at United, where he'll be treated like an actual human being.

 

[Just Hope]

For people that were mentioning how other black players do not receive the same abuse as Vinni, I believe you are missing the mark.

One should not behave like "one of the good ones" in order to not have racist insults hurled their way. There are a plethora of other words that can be used to target a player showing off. I mean, Ronaldo received his fair share of abuse while playing for Madrid from Barca and Espanyol fans, but it was never racist.

I feel for Vini, no one should have to justify their existence before others.

 

[Chief123]

Throughout the years I have seen many players get abused by posters on this forum based on their looks, and nobody seems to care about it at all. Luis Suarez, Francis Jeffers, Rooney, Dirk Kuyt, Anthony Gordon, Tevez, Peter Crouch come to mind.

Wow just wow.

 

[RG77]

That clip of him tearing up is hard to watch. And this has been happening in all stadiums in Spain for so long now. He is incredibly strong mentally, but shouldn’t have to put up with this at all.

Fck Tebas, those fans and anyone supporting or excusing the blatant racism.

 

[Pexbo]

For people that were mentioning how other black players do not receive the same abuse as Vinni, I believe you are missing the mark.

One should not behave like "one of the good ones" in order to not have racist insults hurled their way. There are a plethora of other words that can be used to target a player showing off. I mean, Ronaldo received his fair share of abuse while playing for Madrid from Barca and Espanyol fans, but it was never racist.

I feel for Vini, no one should have to justify their existence before others.

Good post, especially the bold bit. If I was a scout you’d have a like.

 

[Acrobat7]

A part of me wants to get him out of Spain, so he can enjoy playing football again and the other part wants him to stay exactly where he is and don't give an inch to these fekcing cnuts.

 

[antk]

Reminder that Javier Tebas is a far right loser, and that some in spanish football have no qualms actually calling him a repugnant, fascist nazi.

 

[CampNou]

My opinion- The non English speaking countries still haven’t caught up because they don’t see the condemnation the receive for it (here, twitter, english news outlets etc) Not enough is done to stamp it out in Spain, Italy, Greece, Croatia. It’s absolutely rampant but racist sentiment is still the accepted majority voice because they’re threatened by African refugee’s. It wasn’t this bad until the late 90’s. There was bugger all racism in the 80’s in Italy.

My opinion (born and raised in Spain, living in anglo contries for a decade, mostly USA), is that Spain is LESS racist than any of those anglo countries, where the is an unhealthy obsession with race. To me, and to many spaniards, is beyond madness the continuous "race" topic. Why does everything gravitate around race? In Spain people just care a lot less about it. If something is unimportant (meaning you don't really care skin color), then you can be more vocal. It is like any other personal stuff like hair color, body shape, etc. Spanish people also take insults less seriously, in general. "insult culture" is different.

Many people will think that anglo didn't catch up many other things because they dont see the condemnation the receive in other places with other languages (interest in other languages in english speaking countries is close to 0). It is a 2 way street, as shocking it might sound to you.

Spanish grandparents didn't have special (shitty) hotels for black people so they didn't mix, Spanish grandparents didn't put certain people in gas chambers, Spanish grandparents didn't have humans in zoos, Spanish grandpas weren't committing a genocide of aboriginal people last century, etc (I know, not all of them are anglo, but they were closer anyway). If something, Spanish grandpas were killing each other. There is not the "same level of conscience" because literally our grandpas didn't treat them as subhumans. Civil war scars are still open for many people because that is what Spanish grandpas did. But black people? who cares???? Spain was "isolated" during a big part of 20th century because of Franco dictatorship. You might state that there is racism with muslims and gypsies (who are actually spaniards) for other matters, and it is not actually motivated by color skin. Black people was very limited and they were seen as "misterious" people because they were rare in the country in the 20th century, never inferior. People would stare at the few blacks in Spain because it was surprising and many people had never seen one (specially outside big cities). Hate in Spain is way more spread and rampant vs Spaniards from other regions. This is actually a very big problem. Racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means. UK voted to leave the EU a few years ago in one of the most stupid and xenophobic acts of the history. Come on.

Anglo tend to think that their reality is the only reality. Pure projection. Just because a country is mostly white (well, Spain is not white for many anglos anyway) and it is in the same area of the planet, they need to act using the exact same code anglos created or they are racists/whatever ist your want. "Blackface" is another example. In Spain people just painted their fases in black because there weren't black people (for example for Christmas representations) or because you could just get disguised as a black in carnival as you could dress as a woman, a dragon or a magician. Nothing negative about it, because they weren't seen as inferiors or mistreated in Spain. Even in the Holly Week we have anglos screaming and insulting Spain because "some are dressed as KKK", no matter if they had been doing that for 4 centuries before KKK was created... nope... they were just racists!!!

Again, Spain has a lot of issues, but being black is not an issue at all in Spain. You will receive pure hate by way more people just for being from Madrid, catalan, basque, etc. Nobody will ever harass your business because you are black, but they will depending on the language you use in your shop.

Football atmosphere is problematic though, since we are children. Parents have no education and the atmosphere is very negative. I received a lot of insults when I was young, of all kind. For example, playing in Navarre (not even the Basque Country), we were sang something like "f*** spaniards! you should look behind the bus!" the very next day of ETA killing a politician with a bomb car. I was around 14 at that time. 2 weeks ago Pep was repeatedly called yunkie and faggot in Bernabeu (elaborated chants, not just those words, so they were thinking about it for a while).

And I don't pretend to insult anglo countries because I live in one of them for other reasons and I'm very happy.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means.

Spanish people often think this because they don't think anything is racist.

 

[antk]

My opinion (born and raised in Spain, living in anglo contries for a decade, mostly USA), is that Spain is LESS racist than any of those anglo countries, where the is an unhealthy obsession with race. To me, and to many spaniards, is beyond madness the continuous "race" topic. Why does everything gravitate around race? In Spain people just care a lot less about it. If something is unimportant (meaning you don't really care skin color), then you can be more vocal. It is like any other personal stuff like hair color, body shape, etc. Spanish people also take insults less seriously, in general. "insult culture" is different.

Many people will think that anglo didn't catch up many other things because they dont see the condemnation the receive in other places with other languages (interest in other languages in english speaking countries is close to 0). It is a 2 way street, as shocking it might sound to you.

Spanish grandparents didn't have special (shitty) hotels for black people so they didn't mix, Spanish grandparents didn't put certain people in gas chambers, Spanish grandparents didn't have humans in zoos, Spanish grandpas weren't committing a genocide of aboriginal people last century, etc (I know, not all of them are anglo, but they were closer anyway). If something, Spanish grandpas were killing each other. There is not the "same level of conscience" because literally our grandpas didn't treat them as subhumans. Civil war scars are still open for many people because that is what Spanish grandpas did. But black people? who cares???? Spain was "isolated" during a big part of 20th century because of Franco dictatorship. You might state that there is racism with muslims and gypsies (who are actually spaniards) for other matters, and it is not actually motivated by color skin. Black people was very limited and they were seen as "misterious" people because they were rare in the country in the 20th century, never inferior. People would stare at the few blacks in Spain because it was surprising and many people had never seen one (specially outside big cities). Hate in Spain is way more spread and rampant vs Spaniards from other regions. This is actually a very big problem. Racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means. UK voted to leave the EU a few years ago in one of the most stupid and xenophobic acts of the history. Come on.

Anglo tend to think that their reality is the only reality. Pure projection. Just because a country is mostly white (well, Spain is not white for many anglos anyway) and it is in the same area of the planet, they need to act using the exact same code anglos created or they are racists/whatever ist your want. "Blackface" is another example. In Spain people just painted their fases in black because there weren't black people (for example for Christmas representations) or because you could just get disguised as a black in carnival as you could dress as a woman, a dragon or a magician. Nothing negative about it, because they weren't seen as inferiors or mistreated in Spain. Even in the Holly Week we have anglos screaming and insulting Spain because "some are dressed as KKK", no matter if they had been doing that for 4 centuries before KKK was created... nope... they were just racists!!!

Again, Spain has a lot of issues, but being black is not an issue at all in Spain. You will receive pure hate by way more people just for being from Madrid, catalan, basque, etc. Nobody will ever harass your business because you are black, but they will depending on the language you use in your shop.

Football atmosphere is problematic though, since we are children. Parents have no education and the atmosphere is very negative. I received a lot of insults when I was young, of all kind. For example, playing in Navarre (not even the Basque Country), we were sang something like "f*** spaniards! you should look behind the bus!" the very next day of ETA killing a politician with a bomb car. I was around 14 at that time. 2 weeks ago Pep was repeatedly called yunkie and faggot in Bernabeu (elaborated chants, not just those words, so they were thinking about it for a while).

And I don't pretend to insult anglo countries because I live in one of them for other reasons and I'm very happy.

I have little knowledge about racism in Spain throughout the centuries, but one single quick google search about one of your claims state that actually, spanish grandparents did put humans in zoos. I won't fact check your other claims but you may be uninformed about race relations in your own country due to limited perspective or bias.

It's also a bit weird to claim that "racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means" when we are in this very thread talking about the repeated instances of public, normalized, blatant racial abuse a player (among many others) is subjected to on a weekly basis across the whole country.

 

[DJ_21]

Anyone see his red card yesterday? That was harsh. He was being grabbed around the neck and looked like he was struggling breathing so he swung his arms around and caught there player.

 

[Just Hope]

My opinion (born and raised in Spain, living in anglo contries for a decade, mostly USA), is that Spain is LESS racist than any of those anglo countries, where the is an unhealthy obsession with race. To me, and to many spaniards, is beyond madness the continuous "race" topic. Why does everything gravitate around race? In Spain people just care a lot less about it. If something is unimportant (meaning you don't really care skin color), then you can be more vocal. It is like any other personal stuff like hair color, body shape, etc. Spanish people also take insults less seriously, in general. "insult culture" is different.

Many people will think that anglo didn't catch up many other things because they dont see the condemnation the receive in other places with other languages (interest in other languages in english speaking countries is close to 0). It is a 2 way street, as shocking it might sound to you.

Spanish grandparents didn't have special (shitty) hotels for black people so they didn't mix, Spanish grandparents didn't put certain people in gas chambers, Spanish grandparents didn't have humans in zoos, Spanish grandpas weren't committing a genocide of aboriginal people last century, etc (I know, not all of them are anglo, but they were closer anyway). If something, Spanish grandpas were killing each other. There is not the "same level of conscience" because literally our grandpas didn't treat them as subhumans. Civil war scars are still open for many people because that is what Spanish grandpas did. But black people? who cares???? Spain was "isolated" during a big part of 20th century because of Franco dictatorship. You might state that there is racism with muslims and gypsies (who are actually spaniards) for other matters, and it is not actually motivated by color skin. Black people was very limited and they were seen as "misterious" people because they were rare in the country in the 20th century, never inferior. People would stare at the few blacks in Spain because it was surprising and many people had never seen one (specially outside big cities). Hate in Spain is way more spread and rampant vs Spaniards from other regions. This is actually a very big problem. Racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means. UK voted to leave the EU a few years ago in one of the most stupid and xenophobic acts of the history. Come on.

Anglo tend to think that their reality is the only reality. Pure projection. Just because a country is mostly white (well, Spain is not white for many anglos anyway) and it is in the same area of the planet, they need to act using the exact same code anglos created or they are racists/whatever ist your want. "Blackface" is another example. In Spain people just painted their fases in black because there weren't black people (for example for Christmas representations) or because you could just get disguised as a black in carnival as you could dress as a woman, a dragon or a magician. Nothing negative about it, because they weren't seen as inferiors or mistreated in Spain. Even in the Holly Week we have anglos screaming and insulting Spain because "some are dressed as KKK", no matter if they had been doing that for 4 centuries before KKK was created... nope... they were just racists!!!

Again, Spain has a lot of issues, but being black is not an issue at all in Spain. You will receive pure hate by way more people just for being from Madrid, catalan, basque, etc. Nobody will ever harass your business because you are black, but they will depending on the language you use in your shop.

Football atmosphere is problematic though, since we are children. Parents have no education and the atmosphere is very negative. I received a lot of insults when I was young, of all kind. For example, playing in Navarre (not even the Basque Country), we were sang something like "f*** spaniards! you should look behind the bus!" the very next day of ETA killing a politician with a bomb car. I was around 14 at that time. 2 weeks ago Pep was repeatedly called yunkie and faggot in Bernabeu (elaborated chants, not just those words, so they were thinking about it for a while).

And I don't pretend to insult anglo countries because I live in one of them for other reasons and I'm very happy.

Hey man I'm from Argentina, which culturally is very close to Spain. I find that what you are saying is similar to the narrative that is utilized here to justify racism. While America does have an obsession with race, they are working towards the integration of a big part of society that used to belong to a slave caste, and with all that it entails, I believe they are doing an ok job.

The problem with is that we fail to recognize that we are racist, because our understanding of racism is based on "factual" happenings: ie, if people do not insult you on the streets or are trying to linch you that automatically means that there is no racism. All the while we actively refuse to recognize cultural norms and behaviours that make up what americans have rightly titled "institutionalized racism".

It is a very complicated topic, but the first step is to recognize what we can improve in our societies, instead of going full defense.

 

[SalfordRed18]

My opinion (born and raised in Spain, living in anglo contries for a decade, mostly USA), is that Spain is LESS racist than any of those anglo countries, where the is an unhealthy obsession with race. To me, and to many spaniards, is beyond madness the continuous "race" topic. Why does everything gravitate around race? In Spain people just care a lot less about it. If something is unimportant (meaning you don't really care skin color), then you can be more vocal. It is like any other personal stuff like hair color, body shape, etc. Spanish people also take insults less seriously, in general. "insult culture" is different.

Many people will think that anglo didn't catch up many other things because they dont see the condemnation the receive in other places with other languages (interest in other languages in english speaking countries is close to 0). It is a 2 way street, as shocking it might sound to you.

Spanish grandparents didn't have special (shitty) hotels for black people so they didn't mix, Spanish grandparents didn't put certain people in gas chambers, Spanish grandparents didn't have humans in zoos, Spanish grandpas weren't committing a genocide of aboriginal people last century, etc (I know, not all of them are anglo, but they were closer anyway). If something, Spanish grandpas were killing each other. There is not the "same level of conscience" because literally our grandpas didn't treat them as subhumans. Civil war scars are still open for many people because that is what Spanish grandpas did. But black people? who cares???? Spain was "isolated" during a big part of 20th century because of Franco dictatorship. You might state that there is racism with muslims and gypsies (who are actually spaniards) for other matters, and it is not actually motivated by color skin. Black people was very limited and they were seen as "misterious" people because they were rare in the country in the 20th century, never inferior. People would stare at the few blacks in Spain because it was surprising and many people had never seen one (specially outside big cities). Hate in Spain is way more spread and rampant vs Spaniards from other regions. This is actually a very big problem. Racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means. UK voted to leave the EU a few years ago in one of the most stupid and xenophobic acts of the history. Come on.

Anglo tend to think that their reality is the only reality. Pure projection. Just because a country is mostly white (well, Spain is not white for many anglos anyway) and it is in the same area of the planet, they need to act using the exact same code anglos created or they are racists/whatever ist your want. "Blackface" is another example. In Spain people just painted their fases in black because there weren't black people (for example for Christmas representations) or because you could just get disguised as a black in carnival as you could dress as a woman, a dragon or a magician. Nothing negative about it, because they weren't seen as inferiors or mistreated in Spain. Even in the Holly Week we have anglos screaming and insulting Spain because "some are dressed as KKK", no matter if they had been doing that for 4 centuries before KKK was created... nope... they were just racists!!!

Again, Spain has a lot of issues, but being black is not an issue at all in Spain. You will receive pure hate by way more people just for being from Madrid, catalan, basque, etc. Nobody will ever harass your business because you are black, but they will depending on the language you use in your shop.

Football atmosphere is problematic though, since we are children. Parents have no education and the atmosphere is very negative. I received a lot of insults when I was young, of all kind. For example, playing in Navarre (not even the Basque Country), we were sang something like "f*** spaniards! you should look behind the bus!" the very next day of ETA killing a politician with a bomb car. I was around 14 at that time. 2 weeks ago Pep was repeatedly called yunkie and faggot in Bernabeu (elaborated chants, not just those words, so they were thinking about it for a while).

And I don't pretend to insult anglo countries because I live in one of them for other reasons and I'm very happy.

Solid 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

 

[Rob]

My opinion (born and raised in Spain, living in anglo contries for a decade, mostly USA), is that Spain is LESS racist than any of those anglo countries, where the is an unhealthy obsession with race. To me, and to many spaniards, is beyond madness the continuous "race" topic. Why does everything gravitate around race? In Spain people just care a lot less about it. If something is unimportant (meaning you don't really care skin color), then you can be more vocal. It is like any other personal stuff like hair color, body shape, etc. Spanish people also take insults less seriously, in general. "insult culture" is different.

I suppose it starts to gravitate around race when thousands of people yell “monkey” at a black player in a football stadium.

 

[CampNou]

For people that were mentioning how other black players do not receive the same abuse as Vinni, I believe you are missing the mark.

One should not behave like "one of the good ones" in order to not have racist insults hurled their way. There are a plethora of other words that can be used to target a player showing off. I mean, Ronaldo received his fair share of abuse while playing for Madrid from Barca and Espanyol fans, but it was never racist.

I feel for Vini, no one should have to justify their existence before others.

I bet "gitano" (gypsy) was a very common insult to Ronaldo. Also "faggot".

for example, "junkie" and "faggot" are acceptable insults to pep, as it was demonstrated 2 weeks ago in santiago bernabeu.

Anyway, I find amusing that you can insult people depending on the topic you use to insult. Insulting is not acceptable. Period. You can criticize of course, but insult aren't usually needed.

Spanish people often think this because they don't think anything is racism.

I'm Spanish and I see a lot of racism around. I've seen it way more in anglo countries than in Spain. I've been living a lot of times in both places.

I have little knowledge about racism in Spain throughout the centuries, but one single quick google search about one of your claims state that actually, spanish grandparents did put humans in zoos. I won't fact check your other claims but you may be uninformed about race relations in your own country due to limited perspective or bias.

It's also a bit weird to claim that "racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means" when we are in this very thread talking about the repeated instances of public, normalized, blatant racial abuse a player (among many others) is subjected to on a weekly basis across the whole country.

1887. Spanish longevity is very good but I doubt there are grandpas of over 130 years old.

Nobody alive in Spain have ever lived anything similar to that. 1960s on the contrary...

 

[Just Hope]

I bet "gitano" (gypsy) was a very common insult to Ronaldo. Also "faggot".

for example, "junkie" and "faggot" are acceptable insults to pep, as it was demonstrated 2 weeks ago in santiago bernabeu.

Anyway, I find amusing that you can insult people depending on the topic you use to insult. Insulting is not acceptable. Period. You can criticize of course, but insult aren't usually needed.

Baby steps, I suppose. Of course calling someone a slur for homosexual is wrong, but society moves at a snail's pace on social issues. It is no coincidence that there are so few openly gay players.

 

[united_99]

That clip of him tearing up is hard to watch. And this has been happening in all stadiums in Spain for so long now. He is incredibly strong mentally, but shouldn’t have to put up with this at all.

Fck Tebas, those fans and anyone supporting or excusing the blatant racism.

It’s so hard reading some of the stuff here. If people have no issues writing it here I am wondering how indifferent they then actually are in real life in terms of racism.
Blaming Vini for it. So let’s say if McT or Grealish „behave like Vini“ they are free to do so but if Rashford or Saka behave like this they should know better and because of expected racial abuse they should change their personality and/or behaviour??
Such a sick thought.
I can’t even imagine how Vini must feel every time he steps on the pitch for a game.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

My opinion (born and raised in Spain, living in anglo contries for a decade, mostly USA), is that Spain is LESS racist than any of those anglo countries, where the is an unhealthy obsession with race.

It's nice when you can read a post and within a sentence stop because you know it's going to be filled with nonsense.

I have little knowledge about racism in Spain throughout the centuries, but one single quick google search about one of your claims state that actually, spanish grandparents did put humans in zoos. I won't fact check your other claims but you may be uninformed about race relations in your own country due to limited perspective or bias.

It's also a bit weird to claim that "racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means" when we are in this very thread talking about the repeated instances of public, normalized, blatant racial abuse a player (among many others) is subjected to on a weekly basis across the whole country.

It's a real issue. I've been living here for 5 years and I honestly love this country, but to play down the racism issue is quite frankly ignorant or oblivious.

Spanish people often think this because they don't think anything is racist.

This is also a good summary.

 

[antk]

I bet "gitano" (gypsy) was a very common insult to Ronaldo. Also "faggot".

for example, "junkie" and "faggot" are acceptable insults to pep, as it was demonstrated 2 weeks ago in santiago bernabeu.

Anyway, I find amusing that you can insult people depending on the topic you use to insult. Insulting is not acceptable. Period. You can criticize of course, but insult aren't usually needed.

I have no idea what your point is. Is it that we should talk more about homophobia in spanish football? Is it that as homophobia hasn't generated the same amount of outrage recently, we can't be outraged at racism? Is it that Spain is first and foremost an homophobic country that therefore can't be criticized too much for racism that is supposedly less prevalent?

 

[VWW]

Reminder that Javier Tebas is a far right loser, and that some in spanish football have no qualms actually calling him a repugnant, fascist nazi.

the thing that puzzles me is why is it that no one has called him and Pep in the past? Like I get some might argue that the Spanish press wont really care about these things but has Pep ever been questioned in the British press about his Roberto Carlos remarks?

 

[maniak]

Spanish people often think this because they don't think anything is racist.

Yep, exactly the same as in Portugal. I've lived in London and in Portugal casual racism is much more common. Most people don't see it as racism though, so they remain oblivious to the problem.

 

[Pintu]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Pintu]

It started even before the game… “Vini, eres un mono”

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[MexicanCowboy]

I would go beyond racism and forbid any kind of insulting in football games. If you wanna enjoy the game do it, if you wanna support then support.
I actually stopped going to football games long time ago because I dislike all the things that are yelled in them.

 

[Righteous Steps]

My opinion (born and raised in Spain, living in anglo contries for a decade, mostly USA), is that Spain is LESS racist than any of those anglo countries, where the is an unhealthy obsession with race. To me, and to many spaniards, is beyond madness the continuous "race" topic. Why does everything gravitate around race? In Spain people just care a lot less about it. If something is unimportant (meaning you don't really care skin color), then you can be more vocal. It is like any other personal stuff like hair color, body shape, etc. Spanish people also take insults less seriously, in general. "insult culture" is different.

Many people will think that anglo didn't catch up many other things because they dont see the condemnation the receive in other places with other languages (interest in other languages in english speaking countries is close to 0). It is a 2 way street, as shocking it might sound to you.

Spanish grandparents didn't have special (shitty) hotels for black people so they didn't mix, Spanish grandparents didn't put certain people in gas chambers, Spanish grandparents didn't have humans in zoos, Spanish grandpas weren't committing a genocide of aboriginal people last century, etc (I know, not all of them are anglo, but they were closer anyway). If something, Spanish grandpas were killing each other. There is not the "same level of conscience" because literally our grandpas didn't treat them as subhumans. Civil war scars are still open for many people because that is what Spanish grandpas did. But black people? who cares???? Spain was "isolated" during a big part of 20th century because of Franco dictatorship. You might state that there is racism with muslims and gypsies (who are actually spaniards) for other matters, and it is not actually motivated by color skin. Black people was very limited and they were seen as "misterious" people because they were rare in the country in the 20th century, never inferior. People would stare at the few blacks in Spain because it was surprising and many people had never seen one (specially outside big cities). Hate in Spain is way more spread and rampant vs Spaniards from other regions. This is actually a very big problem. Racism in Spain is not a (widespread) issue by any means. UK voted to leave the EU a few years ago in one of the most stupid and xenophobic acts of the history. Come on.

Anglo tend to think that their reality is the only reality. Pure projection. Just because a country is mostly white (well, Spain is not white for many anglos anyway) and it is in the same area of the planet, they need to act using the exact same code anglos created or they are racists/whatever ist your want. "Blackface" is another example. In Spain people just painted their fases in black because there weren't black people (for example for Christmas representations) or because you could just get disguised as a black in carnival as you could dress as a woman, a dragon or a magician. Nothing negative about it, because they weren't seen as inferiors or mistreated in Spain. Even in the Holly Week we have anglos screaming and insulting Spain because "some are dressed as KKK", no matter if they had been doing that for 4 centuries before KKK was created... nope... they were just racists!!!

Again, Spain has a lot of issues, but being black is not an issue at all in Spain. You will receive pure hate by way more people just for being from Madrid, catalan, basque, etc. Nobody will ever harass your business because you are black, but they will depending on the language you use in your shop.

Football atmosphere is problematic though, since we are children. Parents have no education and the atmosphere is very negative. I received a lot of insults when I was young, of all kind. For example, playing in Navarre (not even the Basque Country), we were sang something like "f*** spaniards! you should look behind the bus!" the very next day of ETA killing a politician with a bomb car. I was around 14 at that time. 2 weeks ago Pep was repeatedly called yunkie and faggot in Bernabeu (elaborated chants, not just those words, so they were thinking about it for a while).

And I don't pretend to insult anglo countries because I live in one of them for other reasons and I'm very happy.

I'd rather hear an opinion from a Black person or a person of colour, i am one and i can confirm i felt way more racism in trips to Spain than i have in England.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Spanish people often think this because they don't think anything is racist.

Exactly.

 

[CampNou]

It's nice when you can read a post and within a sentence stop because you know it's going to be filled with nonsense.
It's a real issue. I've been living here for 5 years and I honestly love this country, but to play down the racism issue is quite frankly ignorant or oblivious.

I've been living in anglo countries 2 times what you have lived in Spain.
I find the anglo countries way more racist than Spain. You might like it or not.

I have no idea what your point is. Is it that we should talk more about homophobia in spanish football? Is it that as homophobia hasn't generated the same amount of outrage recently, we can't be outraged at racism? Is it that Spain is first and foremost an homophobic country that therefore can't be criticized too much for racism that is supposedly less prevalent?

No, I mean that there are a lot of tolerated insults every game and they should not be. I don't think it is right to say that it is fine to use some insults but not others.

Football in Spain is very disrespectful since you are a kid. It is not a problem of racism, it is a problem of using football to alleviate personal frustrations.

I'm making this up, but racists insults can be 1%, homophobic 2%, catalan/basque/spanish insults 10%, bald insults 1%, insults to the mother 20%, etc. The systemic problem are insults in football culture, not racism just because a very minimal part of them are related to race. It is completely missing the point of the problem.

by the way, i don't think you can find many better countries to live as a homosexual than spain.

Reminder that Javier Tebas is a far right loser, and that some in spanish football have no qualms actually calling him a repugnant, fascist nazi.

well, that person of the "spanish football" wouldn't be happy with the "spanish" part of it...
"fascist" in a top3 word in a catalan independentist vocabulary, not very surprising.

 

[RG77]

It’s so hard reading some of the stuff here. If people have no issues writing it here I am wondering how indifferent they then actually are in real life in terms of racism.
Blaming Vini for it. So let’s say if McT or Grealish „behave like Vini“ they are free to do so but if Rashford or Saka behave like this they should know better and because of expected racial abuse they should change their personality and/or behaviour??
Such a sick thought.
I can’t even imagine how Vini must feel every time he steps on the pitch for a game.

It has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread. But black players ‘should know their place’. The good old ‘he was no angel’. Black players simply must behave in a certain manner and if it pleases the racist scum we all good!

I have no idea what your point is. Is it that we should talk more about homophobia in spanish football? Is it that as homophobia hasn't generated the same amount of outrage recently, we can't be outraged at racism? Is it that Spain is first and foremost an homophobic country that therefore can't be criticized too much for racism that is supposedly less prevalent?

I ran the post through a translator: “I’m a piece of shit, here is my shit take no one asked for”.

 

[Phil]

The comments section on sites like Marca don’t make for pleasant reading.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Spanish people often think this because they don't think anything is racist.

I'm gonna elaborate on my point, lest anyone thinks I'm just shitposting.

Luis Aragones, former Spanish NT manager, got in trouble for calling Thierry Henry a "black shit." His response: " The problem of racism is, in my opinion, a question of conscience and all I can say is that mine is clear." Henry's Spanish teammate Manuel Almunia said: " He is a strong personality who was only trying to motivate his players. But racist, not at all." (Sources 1 2)

Two years ago, when Camavinga signed for Real Madrid, a reporter got in trouble for describing him as "blacker than his suit" on a hot mic. Of the incident, she has said: "I have apologized for a mistake, for a comment that I made on a mic, but I'm not going to apologize for a racist comment because I did not make one." (source)

The Spanish basketball team was criticized for an ad in 2008 where they all did the "chinese eyes" gesture. Pau Gasol said: "it was a bad idea, but no intention to be racist." Jose Antonio Calderón said: "Anyone who interprets anything else from these photos is totally wrong." (Source)

In 2008, a group of Spanish fans taunted Lewis Hamilton by doing blackface and put on t-shirts with the text "Hamilton's family" at the Circuit de Catalunya. Although response was generally negative, you can still finds comments saying it was "meant to be a joke" (source) or that "it can't be an issue of racism." (source)

In 2020 the newspaper ABC said Ansu Fati runs like "an African street vendor running away from the police." The journalist apologized, saying: "Some of my expressions were taken as racist. This was not my intention, nor my opinion, as I hold a very positive view of the player. I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and I apologize to anyone who might have felt offended." (Source)



It's a very pervasive attitude. Apologetic but extremely defensive. Only vaguely aware that something bad happened. There's tons and tons of examples like that. "This is what our culture is like," "that's not offensive here", "you are too obsessed with these things", etc.

 

[africanspur]

I've been living in anglo countries 2 times what you have lived in Spain.
I find the anglo countries way more racist than Spain. You might like it or not.



No, I mean that there are a lot of tolerated insults every game and they should not be. I don't think it is right to say that it is fine to use some insults but not others.

Football in Spain is very disrespectful since you are a kid. It is not a problem of racism, it is a problem of using football to alleviate personal frustrations.

I'm making this up, but racists insults can be 1%, homophobic 2%, catalan/basque/spanish insults 10%, bald insults 1%, insults to the mother 20%, etc. The systemic problem are insults in football culture, not racism just because a very minimal part of them are related to race. It is completely missing the point of the problem.

by the way, i don't think you can find many better countries to live as a homosexual than spain.



well, that person of the "spanish football" wouldn't be happy with the "spanish" part of it...
"fascist" in a top3 word in a catalan independentist vocabulary, not very surprising.

I've also lived in Spain, as well as a couple of South American countries and found racism, both explicit and implict, far more common in those countries than I have in Anglo countries. I have also lived in Egypt and similar there.

The exact wording is different but the framing is roughly similar. A belief that essentially nothing short of a lynching can be racist. A refusal to acknowledge when others feel there has been racism. A hiding behind being darker than the Northern Europeans/ 'Anglo-Saxons' as if to say there is no way they could therefore be racist themselves. A hiding behind their culture. Pretending that the reason 'Anglo-Saxons' focus on it more is because they are obsessed with race/ have more to apologise for.

Its ridiculous.

 

[golden_blunder]

Im sorry that people have to go through all this nonsense in 2023. It’s nuts that we even have to discuss it. It should be eradicated already. 2023. Not 1963. Bloody hell.