I'm starting to think that they are going with Ratcliffe, with them retaining a large stake, but don't want to announce it until after the Cup Final to avoid fan uproar.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager / awaiting clarity from the club over his position
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
You are missing some more context with the Ole comparison - Ole's stats came off the back of being in charge for 2 and half years and spending nearly half a billion pounds. Yes, as an interim coach RR failed - so don't angrily call me some kind of apologist you weirdo - I'm just a United fan who looks at the bigger picture. He inherited an absolute shitshow, he was given a mangled remit that somehow included managing the immediate chaos and overseeing the restructure of the club, had no money to spend at all, and yet you are comparing him to a permanent manager? And if you think I am pointing out the context around RR because I am somewhat less than supportive about ETH then you should search my posts in this thread.
It's been a fantastic debut season from the gaffer. He's a man with the plan, and we're lucky to have him with such shite going on in the background of the club.
- Just under 70% win rate this season is some going
- Already won a cup
- FA Cup final next weekend
- Champions League
- Finished third in his debut (the highest of any manager post Fergie)
He's given us a great platform to build on next year.
- Just under 70% win rate this season is some going
- Already won a cup
- FA Cup final next weekend
- Champions League
- Finished third in his debut (the highest of any manager post Fergie)
He's given us a great platform to build on next year.
Think he maxed out his coaching abilities with this group. Unbelievable uplift in the team really from where we were when he took over. Cannot keep possession for love nor money at times even now. Oddly I think Pep has polarised for me the ceiling of good coaching at a certain level where management takes over. They need the very best players to win trophies. Will we even know Foden’s full abilities as he spends half a season watching from the bench for example. I think even SAF handed over the coaching once it became clear match day motivation and instilling mental toughness was a full time job in itself. We need to improve our recruitment massively before we continue to spend huge sums. Are our supposed targets like Mount caused by limited budgets or are they this managers most desired incomings based on their untapped talent…hard to tell but likely we ain’t got the cash to help him more than that.
Really hung up on those 90 points are we?The only season City didn't win the title in the last few years, Liverpool had to win 26 games and draw 1 game in 27 games.. Nothing is getting easier. Or rather even if the league becomes harder it gets harder for everyone not city alone.
Pep when it comes to consistency in the league is a master to it. Whoever finishes above city wins it, either you hope for absolute perfect season, Liverpool style in 2020 or City have an off season like Pep first year at city.
ETH has to conjure something to achieve 90 points. How, we don't know but that's the basic level to win the league with Pep around.
I think Pool, Chelsea, Tottenham will be stronger next season. 85 will be enough.
That's why it's hard to take anyone seriously these days when it comes to managers backing
When Ole was caretaker manager, he should improve the players in the squad, for Ralf, he didn't have money and he inherited shit show.
Different standards, so much hypocrisy.
They won't be able to prevent uproar
85 wins you the league just thrice in the last 20 years.
If City didn’t win it with games to spare, they would’ve easily broken 90 pts again as well, other teams getting stronger has no bearings on their ability to smash the non-top 6 home and away consistently every season. Even this season, they’ve lost to us, Pool, Spurs, Brentford x2.
And City will be stronger. Look at the league status with City at the top.
Pool, Chelsea, Spur will improve according to United but City will demolish all of us at Etihad.
Either we hope for City off season. 60% it might happen next season. They surely can't win 4 straight titles.
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He's just looking to outshine Pep in the final
I'm not sure what you think you are proving here, but you are way off. There's no way in the world that I would have wanted Ralf Rangnick to continue as United manager after his caretaker spell, and you will struggle to find huge support from me during the time he was here. If you hadn't been so eager to try and catch me out you would have seen that in the post that has got you so worked up that I said that RR was a failure as interim manager. I just pointed out some of the context around that failure. Nowhere have I claimed that he improved the players, and nowhere have I claimed that he was a success or should have stayed on so I'm kind of confused about where the hypocrisy lies?
3rd and a cup is a very good first season considering last, and he’s sorted so many issues In our squad.
Hopefully we win the FA cup and he’s backed in the summer. If he’s not that will undermine everything he’s done this season.
Hopefully we win the FA cup and he’s backed in the summer. If he’s not that will undermine everything he’s done this season.
In fact, let me clarify this a bit further for you.
Solskjaer was brought in solely as a caretaker until the end of the season (yes, I know that changed as time went on). He was brought in with little expectation other than to lift the spirits of the team, and salvage a season that was starting to go awry. Fair play to Ole, he did that really well - undoubtedly a successful caretaker period. The post of mine that you have dredged up from the depths is in relation to the question of whether he should be permanent manager. I can understand why he was, and I was as guilty of anyone as getting over-excited by that night in Paris, but ultimately, in the cold light of day by the end of that season the team had already started to revert to type, and he had shown little tactical nous, or ability to improve individual players...and that was borne out across his 3 year tenure...ergo I was correct in what I was suggesting.
Ralf Rangick was a different situation. Firstly, in my opinion, he inherited a bigger shambles than Ole did. The team had zero confidence, was appalling coached, and had Ronaldo sulking around and (according to some reports) wanting to leave at Christmas. On top of that he was appointed with a strange kind of dual role, which meant - in my opinion - he wasn't given clear direction on whether his main priority was to be a pure caretaker (like Solsjkaer) and just gee the players up a bit and steady the ship, or to start the process of addressing the longer term problems at the club. Either way he failed, but the situations are not exactly the same.
To hold these opinions is not hypocritical.
given the sheer lack of training time with this group from basically november until the final weeks in May....i'd say he's done a hell of a job.
the ronaldo situation, the maguire situation, a world cup in november, playing thur/sun for what seemed like 3 straight months and having big injuries to deal with yet still finishing top 3. That doesn't even include a trophy plsu the FA Cup Final coming up which are both huge bonuses to the season.
the ronaldo situation, the maguire situation, a world cup in november, playing thur/sun for what seemed like 3 straight months and having big injuries to deal with yet still finishing top 3. That doesn't even include a trophy plsu the FA Cup Final coming up which are both huge bonuses to the season.
Will clearly get hammered by some in the Mount thread if he signs him that much is clear
Ofcoruse it is hypocritical, I don't know whether you were pro-RR or you didn't want him. All I see is, you have thrown bunch of excuses for why RR failed and couldn't do any better.
While Ole was care taker manager and didn't spend any money (doing much better than what RR did), the expectations or tone of your posts was completely different, there was 0 excuses for Ole, like the below quoted posts. Apparently Ole should have improved all that but it's fine for RR not to do any of that because he inherited mess. He even had more time than Ole had as care taker manager.
Also even today your first post I replied to was
but you had 0 problems comparing Jose's points per game with Ole's, when Ole spent 0 and Jose had 2.5 years with the squad, spending shit loads of money.
Also no, I'm not trying to prove anything here, I'm making observations on how people standards change based on who the manager is, always the case.
Interesting that EtH and Klopp prefers same kind of midfielders. Both wanted Mac and Mount.
Yeah very true,think he wants to show he can be possession based like Guardiola too but needs to find alternative DLP to De Jong
I think it's opposite. I don't think EtH really cares much about possession, maybe it's because of profile of players we have but he clearly tried to implement more direct approach like Ralf wanted, when we win possession we go for vertical passes but in more structured way.
I read a stat that we have most attacks that was started from defensive third (within 15 seconds ended up as an attack).
Maybe if we sign different profile of players we might see more controlled version of our play but looking at our interest in Mount, I'm assuming we will be more or less same with style of football next season. Try to win the ball and transition quickly to attack. Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro all look for forward pass and the receiver either receives on half turn or lay off to keep the attack going. I think we will see lot of these fast attacks next season.
And he will probably deserve it. That's a lot of money for someone who isn't that good, especially when we're crying out for a different kind of player and different positions.
I don't believe we were ever in for Mac Allister, he's way too limited.
Yes but what if he can't get that kind of player,agree we need someone to provide cover for Casa but maybe he sees that as a Rabiot. We do need a playmaker but have other positions which need addressing
In fairness to Mount it can't be easy when you've had about 5 or 6 different managers in a few years all with different ideas.
Good grief, you are going to quite some lengths to make these observations aren't you?!
Seems a strange way to spend a sunny bank holiday, but maybe it isn't sunny or a bank holiday in your part of the world?Let me break things down for you:
Ole - great caretaker manager, appalling choice of permanent manager.
Ralf Rangnick - I'd never even heard of him before we appointed him. Ultimately a failure but I have some sympathy for the shit hand he was dealt.
ETH - doing a fecking brilliant job.
Having differing opinions of different managers in different situations is not hypocrisy.
Tbh these are not any new observations, I have made same points multiple times.Good grief, you are going to quite some lengths to make these observations aren't you?!
Let me break things down for you:
Ole - great caretaker manager, appalling choice of permanent manager.
Ralf Rangnick - I'd never even heard of him before we appointed him. Ultimately a failure but I have some sympathy for the shit hand he was dealt.
ETH - doing a fecking brilliant job.
Having differing opinions of different managers in different situations is not hypocrisy.
I don't know what part of the world you live in or how good people are with internet. It barely takes 2-3 mins to find old posts.
You don't have to break anything for me, it's so obvious. Why wasn't RR expected to improve players with his training methods like other care taker manager was expected to?
Why shouldn't RR's points per game compared to Ole while Ole's was compared with Jose's during his half a season. Why is lot of context added to RR's performance while everything was ignored for Ole and his record was directly compared to Jose, even when we had such a shit luck with cup draws.
I don't know how these are called anything but hypocrisy.
Klopp first full season with Liverpool
Premier League 4th 76 points
FA Cup 4th round
League cup Semi final
Europe - weren't in it
Pep's first full season with Man City
Premier League 3rd 78 points
FA Cup Semi finals
League cup 4th round
Europe - CL round of 16
Arteta first full season with Arsenal
Premier League 8th 61 points
FA Cup 4th
League cup quarter finalists
Europe - EL semi finalists
Ten Hag first full season with Man United
Premier League 3rd 75 points
FA Cup final to play
League cup winners
Europe - EL quarter finals.
Premier League 4th 76 points
FA Cup 4th round
League cup Semi final
Europe - weren't in it
Pep's first full season with Man City
Premier League 3rd 78 points
FA Cup Semi finals
League cup 4th round
Europe - CL round of 16
Arteta first full season with Arsenal
Premier League 8th 61 points
FA Cup 4th
League cup quarter finalists
Europe - EL semi finalists
Ten Hag first full season with Man United
Premier League 3rd 75 points
FA Cup final to play
League cup winners
Europe - EL quarter finals.
Klopp and Arteta also had advantage, they had more than hall a season in previous season.
Factually incorrect. Carry on.
There aren't any ready made alternatives to FdJ out there. You can't just invent a player that doesn't exist.
Judging by the players we've been linked to, it seems fairly obvious the manager is looking for a different profile of midfielder now. He obviously has a different plan in mind.
That kind of player is out there and is available, they just don’t want to take a chance on someone who’s ‘unproven’ but teams like Brighton do it every season with relative success. Which begs the question what are the scouts doing if Mount is the number one signing? I’m more than convinced it’s just because he’s available and it’s an easy transfer to complete, instead of someone like Caicedo, because Brighton would bend us over and we’d drag it out all summer.
Spending £55m-£70m on a backup player is mental, and makes zero sense. I’d worry for Ten Hag and United if this is the plan going into next season.
You are missing the point badly here.
My criticisms of Ole came in the context of him being appointed PERMANENT manager. I would never have argued for RR to be made PERMANENT manager, therefore the comparison you are making is false. If Ralf had been made permanent and I hadn't held him to account for the same things that I did with Ole then THAT would have been hypocritical but you are comparing apples with oranges once again.
As I keep having to point out, the crux of my argument about RR is that he was given a confused remit, and my belief is that he was caught between doing the job of a pure caretaker (like Ole), and working towards his wider remit of modernising the club - two things that are sometimes at odds with each other. Ole didn't have that confusion, and his goals for the season were therefore clearer - again in my opinion. Ergo, I would use different measures to assess their performance. A pure caretaker I would expect to come in, improve morale, put an arm around players, not make wholesale changes and steady the ship so that a new man comes in with a clean slate and a happy dressing room.We know that RR was given this dual role which was supposed to change to a consultancy role at the end of the season, but in his first presser he even talked about how he might recommend that he stays on as manager, so it it obviously was not clear to him what would happen at the end of the season. Therefore, again in my fecking opinion, he started to make more fundamental changes midway through the season (e.g. changing to a pressing style, calling out underperforming players, and speaking out about the state of the club) that were likely to result in a less successful season in the short term, but which - in his mind - were probably necessary steps towards a creating a better club in the longer term. Nowhere have I argued that he was on the right track, or would have been a success, I'm just pointing out some context, and this is why I personally would judge him using different metrics to Ole who was brought in with a different, more simple, remit. This is my personal opinion, and you are, of course, welcome to disagree, but you are way off beam with this attempt to paint me as a hypocrite.
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Its smart by EtH.What a story it will be to upset the PL champions and deny them their first ever treble while showing the rest of the league there's massive potential yet untapped in this United side.
I hope every one of the players grows a third lung by Saturday
Its literally half his team talk for the cup final done for him. That rousing roar from the fans, hes reminding the players that this is what it means to us (the fans). That they (the players) are our warriors out there on the pitch next Saturday. Its not just against any team...its City. I'm sure they know this but to feel it like that wont do any harm and only work to remind them. Hope it does the trick.
Yep, that is absolutely important - assessing the squad for over half a season meaning they are actually much more prepared for season 2 (in terms of what the squad offers anyway). Pep also had the "luxury" of Txiki and the likes planning for his arrival well before he actually took charge, iirc. He didn't have a flawless squad, but most of his important core group was there already.
Why wasn't RR expected to improve players, not even my words, I'm just going with what you wrote " A players performance is predicated partly on things like training plans, but is also influenced by a huge amount of other things that can be improved in a short time. Just basic stuff like confidence, motivation, inspiration can all make a big difference, and are all things that are within the remit of a manager "
So it wasn't in his JD to improve confidence, motivation and all that? Was he so confused whether to train the team or shit on players in PC and how better he can do it in PC?
I completely disagree with your excuses for RR, no there wasn't any confusion. His job was to steady the ship which he completely failed. I don't have problem with caretaker manager failing, not everyone will get that manager bounce. It's how standards are different for different managers, no matter how much you twist and deny it, it's so obvious in those posts.
You seem to think I have some kind of pro Ralf agenda!
Why the heck would I have one of those?! You also seem quite cross.My view is that there were a different set of circumstances around Ralf's appointment than there were around Ole's, you seem to want to argue that they were exactly the same. That is your prerogative
No, you should read better. I even made it very clear in my first post that I have no idea whether you are pro-RR or against it. It doesn't even matter, my point has nothing to do with pro or against RR. It's all to do with double standards.You seem to think I have some kind of pro Ralf agenda!
My view is that there were a different set of circumstances around Ralf's appointment than there were around Ole's, you seem to want to argue that they were exactly the same. That is your prerogative
How are circumstances different. One manager became caretaker manager in Nov and other in december. Both took over the team that finished 2nd in previous season but completely stunk up the place in that current season.
Just because RR had "consultant tag" doesn't make circumstances different.
Yeah, they had time to assess squad and plan well ahead for the next season, also most of the team were used to the training methods and tactical set up.
I just hope we back EtH completely this summer and our summer plans are not fecked by the take over talks.
Yes, you are correct - both scenarios are identical
How is it any differentYes, you are correct - both scenarios are identical
Couldn't have asked for more identical scenarios.
except for the fact that one had a contract for 2.5 years, the other was for 5 months. Other than that tiny detail everything is identical.How is it any different
Couldn't have asked for more identical scenarios.
Dude, what is with you, I am more than happy for you to have your opinion? You disagree - well done!