Linked with Dortmund to replace Bellingham 
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Interesting posts, all. I hope he gets a fair chance during pre-season to at least show his wares and not have it predetermined that he’s for the chop.
And
@ Fight Club!
And
@ Fight Club!He needs to be with a team and a manager invested in his development. The Birmingham loan wasn't a failure but it didn't get him any closer to United's first team than he was before.
He looks bloody great to me. Still work to do but I think he’s coming along ok. I want him here for preseason/ August. Probably loan again then but one more season should do it.
Yeah I saw that. Might be a good move for him and even for us if there’s a buy-back clause in there. He is a brilliant talent and we have to get him playing somewhere that he can flourish. I can’t bear the thought of losing him just as he starts putting it together but I also don’t want him to fade away on our bench or on loan at the wrong club.Linked with Dortmund to replace Bellingham
Wait, so the next Dortmund prodigy player everyone is going to say we should sign is actually our player.
I think the loan has been good for him, he was thrown into a team that was tipped for relegation and did well imo. Birmingham have also had a lot of financial issues and put together a patched up squad with numerous loan signings. So the team was lacking in both quality and stability from the start of the season and they'd also hired a new coach from the national league in John Eustace.
I watched around 50% of their games and they played direct football with little emphasis on building the play from the back. And in that approach it's difficult for any midfielder player to stand out due to the lack of quality around them and the play centred around getting the ball forward into the final third with minimal amount of passes. And with Hannibal being utilised as a interior in a 3 man midfield, he ended up in wide positions like a winger. And with Birmingham being statistically the worst team in the league at keeping possession, along with Blackpool, it meant the team wasn't setup to dominate the ball but rather to dominate the spaces off the ball high up the pitch by pressing and counter pressing.
I think he's coming off a very good loan and Nick Cox (academy manager) mentioned in the recent interview he did with a United fan channel on YouTube about sending players on loan to clubs where they struggle and find it difficult. Because the aim is to test them both as far as playing ability goes and mental toughness when things aren't going well. So after listening to him it made sense that they likely selected Birmingham City due to Birmingham being a team that was struggling on and off the pitch. They could've sent him to a team who control 60% of the ball and the mood in this thread would be very different now. But I think looking back it now, the club likely did send him to the right club and from what's been reported and said by the Birmingham manager, Hannibal has been a consumate professional who has adapted well to their brand of football in the club's hour of need.
There's a long way to go, but it looks like ten Hag is looking to open up the 325 system in a high defensive line by utilising both Mount and Bruno high up the pitch as advanced midfielders. And in that system the two interiors will have to provide in possession and out of possession by pressing/counter pressing well. That role potentially suits Hannibal and we didn't really see his ability on the ball as much on loan for the reasons stated, but we saw that he's got a ridiculous engine. And if ten Hag can bring it together where he can bring out the player's natural ability on the ball, then Hannibal could surprise a lot of people imo.
There was a number of players I can name who went on to be world class after having poor loans or in some cases not even being rated by their parent club. But Harry Kane is a good example of a player who was sent on several loans and was deemed not good enough. Spurs were about to sell him for £600k to Leicester when Tim Sherwood took issue with Franco Baldini, who had wanted to play Roberto Soldado instead. Vid below.
I watched around 50% of their games and they played direct football with little emphasis on building the play from the back. And in that approach it's difficult for any midfielder player to stand out due to the lack of quality around them and the play centred around getting the ball forward into the final third with minimal amount of passes. And with Hannibal being utilised as a interior in a 3 man midfield, he ended up in wide positions like a winger. And with Birmingham being statistically the worst team in the league at keeping possession, along with Blackpool, it meant the team wasn't setup to dominate the ball but rather to dominate the spaces off the ball high up the pitch by pressing and counter pressing.
I think he's coming off a very good loan and Nick Cox (academy manager) mentioned in the recent interview he did with a United fan channel on YouTube about sending players on loan to clubs where they struggle and find it difficult. Because the aim is to test them both as far as playing ability goes and mental toughness when things aren't going well. So after listening to him it made sense that they likely selected Birmingham City due to Birmingham being a team that was struggling on and off the pitch. They could've sent him to a team who control 60% of the ball and the mood in this thread would be very different now. But I think looking back it now, the club likely did send him to the right club and from what's been reported and said by the Birmingham manager, Hannibal has been a consumate professional who has adapted well to their brand of football in the club's hour of need.
There's a long way to go, but it looks like ten Hag is looking to open up the 325 system in a high defensive line by utilising both Mount and Bruno high up the pitch as advanced midfielders. And in that system the two interiors will have to provide in possession and out of possession by pressing/counter pressing well. That role potentially suits Hannibal and we didn't really see his ability on the ball as much on loan for the reasons stated, but we saw that he's got a ridiculous engine. And if ten Hag can bring it together where he can bring out the player's natural ability on the ball, then Hannibal could surprise a lot of people imo.
There was a number of players I can name who went on to be world class after having poor loans or in some cases not even being rated by their parent club. But Harry Kane is a good example of a player who was sent on several loans and was deemed not good enough. Spurs were about to sell him for £600k to Leicester when Tim Sherwood took issue with Franco Baldini, who had wanted to play Roberto Soldado instead. Vid below.
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Sure thing. 50m with a buyback clause.
Would love to see him replace either of McFred next year.
@Adnan : nice job.
He looks great on the ball and has a great tenacity about him too. Would like to see him next to Casemiro in a few games.. he's got the makings of a really good 8.
He absolutely fecking well has. I don’t know when he’ll be ready but he has got the talent to get into our team sooner or later and stay there.
No8 is his best position imo and he would be ideal with Casemiro. Only problem might be Casemiro declining or gone by the time Hannibal is ready to start for us.
Amad and Hannibal are perfect for the squad positive, both have had decent loans and played plenty of minutes, they have bags of natural talent.
Next season is the time for them to be given a chance. If they take it like Garnacho has then the club has saved 100+ million.
Simples.
Next season is the time for them to be given a chance. If they take it like Garnacho has then the club has saved 100+ million.
Simples.
Nice post @Adnan . It does make sense. These kids have the talent already, but still need to develop mental toughness.
Fairly sure Amad has a place in squad next season. It would be a pleasant surprise if Hannibal will be also.
Fairly sure Amad has a place in squad next season. It would be a pleasant surprise if Hannibal will be also.
I think it’s possible that ETH includes both Amad and Hannibal in the squad of the next season. As long as he thinks them able to contribute and grow with the team, he will do it. Hannibal will really benefit his hardship experience from Birmingham loan spell, imo.
Cheers Adnan. Great post and that's cheered me up regarding Hannibal's chances. I just had the worrying feeling ETH does not fancy him for some reason and neither do some of our fans by reading some of the posts above especially regarding how his loan went.
I've not even been watching him play for Birmingham at all but from what I've seen of him for the reserves and youth sides I'm a massive fan and I think he's easily our most talented youngster (alongside Amad) since Greenwood.
If it was up to me I'd be prioritising integrating him and Amad into the first team squad. I'll repeat myself when I say that's what Sir Alex would have done with these two and I doubt he would have sent them on loan.
It is no surprise at all Dortmund are looking to get him as a replacement for Bellingham when they are fairly similar in style. They also see him as potentially another Sancho/ Bellingham level of talent where he will progress to a 100m level player.
I'm hoping with us being in the Champions League next season and having won a cup this year that ETH rotates the squad better and gives the young players like Hannibal more chances.
We should loan/sell him to Dortmund with the caveat that they take Sancho back
It might be the case that Erik ten Hag doesn't rate him and will allow him to leave. But I do think he's got the potential to stake a claim in the team from what I've seen, and could develop into a attacking midfielder who has the physicality/athleticism to be strong in the defensive transition as well as being good on the ball.
I think if he's given a run in the team with more technical players around him and a better team structure, the potential to see his ball carrying and passing ability will become more pronounced. I think he should be given a chance in the first team and he could surprise a few people.
The clip below is from Brighton's DoF (David Weir) who says that when they bought Moises Caicedo, they were struggling to find a club that would take him on loan. They eventually arranged a loan to a club in Belgium who were fighting relegation and the experience for Caicedo wasn't great and neither did he stand-out but the minutes he played in the games he was on loan, were fundamental towards his development. Can you imagine the reaction if one of our players was sent on loan to Belgium and didn't standout in a team that was struggling? Caicedo would've been written off and deemed not good enough. But because Brighton were patient with him and gave him games soon after his loan stint ended, he developed into a excellent young midfielder.
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Fully agree mate. Especially with the paragraph highlighted in bold.
Nice post as always!
I also think about our starting XI whose average age is a bit old. We need to have new young blood injected into the squad. With the enough experience flowing around the team, youngsters can develop more quickly and have real chances because ETH is not shy to give youngsters opportunities. They just need to show they can contribute and have potential and motivation to do more (I found I am starting to talk in a way like ETH.)
If Dortmund want him to replace Bellingham then I'd definitely keep him in the club. With some games and good training with our coach, he can force himself into the squad and become an important figure for us.
I like the look of what I have seen from Hannibal but we've got to get better on deciding much earlier whether a player is good enough to become a part of our squad, or whether they will fall just short.
Consider the likes of Brandon Williams, Dean Henderson, Axel Tuanzebe...even Scott McTominay. At 'peak-hype' we could probably have gotten £125-150m for these four. Now we will be lucky to get a fee for Williams and Tuanzebe.
Garner was an example of us getting it right. There were many on here who complained when he was sold to Everton but I said at the time it was the right thing to do. He made no impression at all really last season and now it looks like we did well to get £15m.
Personally, I think when a player hits 20, we should be thinking 'would we sign this lad if he were at another club?' If the answer is 'no' then that begs the question, how likely are they to have a long-term future?
I'd cash in on Mejbri, Elanga and Laird personally. Take the money and stick a buy-back clause in. Its also better for them. They won't get better by sitting on the bench at OT and playing the odd cup game. If they are to kick-on, it will be through regular football.
Consider the likes of Brandon Williams, Dean Henderson, Axel Tuanzebe...even Scott McTominay. At 'peak-hype' we could probably have gotten £125-150m for these four. Now we will be lucky to get a fee for Williams and Tuanzebe.
Garner was an example of us getting it right. There were many on here who complained when he was sold to Everton but I said at the time it was the right thing to do. He made no impression at all really last season and now it looks like we did well to get £15m.
Personally, I think when a player hits 20, we should be thinking 'would we sign this lad if he were at another club?' If the answer is 'no' then that begs the question, how likely are they to have a long-term future?
I'd cash in on Mejbri, Elanga and Laird personally. Take the money and stick a buy-back clause in. Its also better for them. They won't get better by sitting on the bench at OT and playing the odd cup game. If they are to kick-on, it will be through regular football.
I mostly agree with this assessment. Many players have been kept too long but I think this is indicative of a mindset where we actually want these players to develop well enough to become first team players, rather than be sold on for maximum profit. It’s what makes our academy great. But a balance has to be struck.
What we do know is that hindsight is 20-20, and fans are terrible judges of players. Many players who were hyped to the high heavens ended up being rubbish and likewise, fans players thought weren’t good enough, ended up becoming good.
I agree that what happened with Williams and Tuanzebe was poorly managed, and I think we are reaching a similar point with some of the newer crop. Mejbri should either be given a first team squad spot this season and regular games, or sold with a buy back clause.
There's no shame in it either. In order to get where we want to be, we need to assemble a squad of 23 elite footballers, who have the fitness-levels, the mentality and the ability to compete at the very highest level. They also must fit into the managers' desired system.
Of course, when you set the bar high, lads who are good players and characters will ultimately fall just short. That's not a problem, it's part of football. They can still go on to have great careers in the game.
What nobody wants is the situation we have seen with the likes of Williams, Henderson and Tuanzebe. Williams had a great spell at Norwich, one of my mates is a Norwich regular, they loved him. Henderson was fantastic at Sheffield United, again, great rapport with the fans. Tuanzebe had a highly successful season at Villa and peaked after the PSG game when he dealt expertly with Mbappe.
The issue is, we didn't make a decision. We neither committed to integrating them into the first team, nor looked to maximise our revenue and help further their careers by letting them go. Looking at the current crop of 18-21s, there's only really Amad and Garnacho I see as potential first team footballers. The likes of Laird, Fernandez, Mejbri, McNeil and Savage have had decent loans and we should be looking to sell.
He certainly did make an impression. Everton fans were saying that they should build a team around him and Pickford.
Garner was trending on twitter after their last game and there were scores of positive comments about his performances under Dyche.
Of course that doesn't mean we were wrong to let him go if ETH didn't think he fitted his system.
Can’t help wondering if selling McT and keeping Garner would have been a better decision.
Only issue is will they get actual game time.. EtH is already under pressure to get results so game time will be scarce. I mean of it is like Garnacho ,than it looks great.
But for every Garnacho, there is a Pellistri.
I don't know what is the right balance here.
Not sure I understand this comparison, Pellistri's looked very promising in his cameos, to the point I'm surprised he hasn't featured more.
Yeah people still use Amad's Rangers loan to slate him even though the next season he tore up the Championship.
I'm always hesitant with loans, especially with more technical players, because often times you'll be sending a young kid into a struggling team where he's levels above technically but doesn't get to show it and ends up frustrated/stagnating/deemed poor and loses out minutes. People seem to want to go through this perfect progression of 3 seasons straight of loans with the final one being in the PL before being willing to have a player in the United squad, but all evidence has shown us that players actually progress the most when the can play with similar levels of technicality around them, even if it's a more rotational role. I prefer integrating players more similar to how Garnacho was (even if he's the best case scenario), where you give them sub/rotational minutes gradually while learning the system and developing under our staff, as opposed to shipping them off to *hopefully* play minutes at some relegation level club where the manager might bin him off half way through the year for a more senior player because he doesn't have time for developing our own player.
I mean Hannibal needs to play regularly. Intermittent Cameos like that of Pellistri will be more hindrance than help his development. And regular playtime might be hard to come.
100% would have been a better decision but I guess EtH went with the safer (and proven) option. At least we got a decent price for Garner.
That's his point. Pellistri didn't get as many opportunities despite looking very promising in the few appearances he got.
I'm sure Hannibal, as well as other academy graduates, will get the opportunity in pre season to stake a claim for a first team squad place, and it's up to them to show Ten Hag that they deserve it. Garnacho apparently missed a couple of team meetings in pre season, which held him back, but obviously he showed enough to keep him involved within the squad, and eventually, by toeing the line, he got his chance, which he grasped with both hands, and doesn't look like he's going to let go, so that is the benchmark for the academy guys to reach to have a chance.
For what it's worth, I have always rated Hannibal highly, and I hope he follows in Garnacho's footsteps and can get himself integrated into the set up.
For what it's worth, I have always rated Hannibal highly, and I hope he follows in Garnacho's footsteps and can get himself integrated into the set up.
EtH played him as a false 9 this pre-season. Mejbri is no false 9. He could play as a 10, but I would say he's best as an 8. Hopefully he gets his chance in midfield next pre-season.
Really loved watching Hannibal in the U18's and U21's and would love to see him get some first team opportunities either this season or next (if they feel he needs one more loan).
A lot depends on what midfield additions we're able to make this summer. As it stands, I'd definitely love to see Amad and Hannibal get some first team squad chances in pre-season and ahead of some of the other (bit part) options. But obviously we might / should bring in some signings in some of those positions so then they might struggle for playing time at this stage of their development and ETH may decide to loan them out again. But hopefully that's with a view to them coming back to us and getting more opportunities.
I love Hannibal's drive and energy, and his quality on the ball. He's still raw, but really has the all round potential to be a box to box #8 or a #10. Personally see him most suited to an all action #8. He needs to hone all his skills to become more reliable and effective, but definitely has the potential to be a top midfielder if he does so and is given some trust and opportunities.
A lot depends on what midfield additions we're able to make this summer. As it stands, I'd definitely love to see Amad and Hannibal get some first team squad chances in pre-season and ahead of some of the other (bit part) options. But obviously we might / should bring in some signings in some of those positions so then they might struggle for playing time at this stage of their development and ETH may decide to loan them out again. But hopefully that's with a view to them coming back to us and getting more opportunities.
I love Hannibal's drive and energy, and his quality on the ball. He's still raw, but really has the all round potential to be a box to box #8 or a #10. Personally see him most suited to an all action #8. He needs to hone all his skills to become more reliable and effective, but definitely has the potential to be a top midfielder if he does so and is given some trust and opportunities.
Great post. We're both hoping ETH gives him a proper chance (I remember he was played as a false 9 in pre-season to little effect) and hopefully there'll be a big enough clear out to leave that a foregone conclusion.
I would imagine that Ten Hag must have seen something that thought he could play in that position? I'm with you that I don't think he's a false 9 at all, an 8 almost certainly at the moment, but who knows where he could end up, but for me he needs to be in a deepish lying position in the heart of midfield where he can start to dictate games, but obviously he needs to play in matches, and then to start being involved more and more in those matches.
We spent 150mil on two players for the RW position so Facundro is always going to struggle to get in front of them in the short term.
I think Klopp realised pretty quickly that even though he outlaid a lot of money on a player that if he is not delivering then he was not starting and I hope Erik learns from that.
Probably more just due to lack of attacking options pre-season and Hannibal being the most attacking of the CM's to shove out of position.
We tended to bring on our kids / squad players together and, with no youth #9's coming on, we tended to go with Elanga and Amad / Chong out wide and just shoved Hannibal in as a false 9 with the likes of Iqbal, Savage, Garner and VDB getting the opportunities in CM.
Hopefully Hannibal will be trusted enough to get some proper opportunities in his more suited positions this pre-season.
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