Was Cantona 6th choice backup or did he fall out with the coach?
David de Gea has left Manchester United
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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I know, I’m not stupid. I was just highlighting how international appearances is a terrible measure of whether someone is a club legend or not. There is literally no correlation.
I know, and I’m not particularly referencing international appearances, I’m more focused on their role for their country and how they’re perceived in their own country. Great players are usually legends in their own land. De Gea is a bit of a joke in Spain, they don’t rate him at all.
Proven yourself wrong there buddy.. I doubt there are many United fan who doesn't consider Rooney as a club legend. The rare ones who don't probably have an issue of him flirting with City than anything else.
On De Gea, I didn't consider him a legend, even at his peak. He has been very good because the United team has been quite weak and needed his shot stopping abilities so much. But he had a big part to play in the general play of the team being poor in the first place too. While he has been a "good" player for us, I am quite glad to see him go.
Completely agree with Crafton's assessment. The extracts below are quite telling and part of the reason why we haven't evolved as a football team post Fergie imo.
Adam Crafton: "In 2019, De Gea once again ran his contract down to within a year of expiry and this time around, he almost doubled his wages in doing so. This was the tail-end of United’s era of desperation and excess under the calamitous executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward, who sanctioned the renewal, announced in September 2019, despite De Gea enduring a palpable slump in form during the 2018-19 season, following on from an under-par World Cup showing for Spain."
"De Gea’s slump in the spring of 2019 was extraordinary, demonstrating a litany of basic errors that appeared to hint at a major crisis of confidence. Perhaps, at that point, United felt he had enough credit in the bank to merit further patience, yet De Gea’s brinkmanship, heading into the final year of his deal, meant Woodward approved a contract that acted as a noose around the neck of both Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Ten Hag because United vastly overpaid a goalkeeper whose skill set increasingly ill-befitted the style desired by coaches at the summit of modern football."
Amazing goalkeeper.. We will know next year when Onana/ new gk won't be able to save goals that was easy for De Gea..
The game has evolved and he was not able to..
And as he grew old, started having errors..
He is still the best on his day.. He will suit Italy or Spain..
The game has evolved and he was not able to..
And as he grew old, started having errors..
He is still the best on his day.. He will suit Italy or Spain..
No, it's a method to calculate chance of scoring a goal against an "average" goalkeeper. Then it aggregates over a season. Being close to 0 means you're just an average top 5 leagues goalkeeper. Allison is on +10 this season (to be fair it looks like a great season for EPL goalkeepers).
It really shows De Gea was fantastic shot stopper for 6/12 seasons with us. What sounds about right. Also shows when he was broken.
Ok kiddo calm down. Take a breath and maybe try and speak to another human being like an adult. My post was perfectly polite and reasonable. There's no call for getting all angsty and using terms like "blubber crap" - maybe look up the meaning of the word, it's a fact - it's not crap and it's used to illustrate the point that he stayed because he was on crazy money which no one else would match. And for many people he won't be remembered as a club legend. Because for a lot of us he has done nothing to attain such a status, like I said, giggs and cantona are club legends for what they achieved and what they won and the influence they had on the club. For me David has not had that impact at all, so he's not a legend. You're entitled to your opinion and other people are entitled to theirs. So no, it is not a fact that he will at all.
A sad day, but a day that needed to come.
A great servant of the club for 12 years. Yes, I think he deserves the "club legend" status for both the longevity of his stay and the fact for the first half of his United career, he was the best player at the club as witnessed by his multiple poty awards. He was one of the few bright spots in the post Fergie years.
Unfortunately for David, in terms of playing football out from the back and keepers playing as auxiliary sweepers, the game evolved beyond his skillet and physical capabilites. Added to that, the latter half of his United career was littered with some inexplicable blunders which made his position untenable.
I hope and I'm confident in the fulness of time, his time at United will be remembered more for the brilliant goalkeeper he was at the start of his career here.
Wishing him and his family all the best for the future.
A great servant of the club for 12 years. Yes, I think he deserves the "club legend" status for both the longevity of his stay and the fact for the first half of his United career, he was the best player at the club as witnessed by his multiple poty awards. He was one of the few bright spots in the post Fergie years.
Unfortunately for David, in terms of playing football out from the back and keepers playing as auxiliary sweepers, the game evolved beyond his skillet and physical capabilites. Added to that, the latter half of his United career was littered with some inexplicable blunders which made his position untenable.
I hope and I'm confident in the fulness of time, his time at United will be remembered more for the brilliant goalkeeper he was at the start of his career here.
Wishing him and his family all the best for the future.
Still odd how he doesn't have a club. High profile, still a decent shot stopper, young-ish for a keeper.
Whether a player is a "legend", "great servant", "favored personnel", etc. is mostly subjective, so there's no point arguing over it as each fan has their own definition.
For me DDG is a United legend (despite his last few seasons being underwhelming), but I can completely understand why he may not be one for somebody else.
For me DDG is a United legend (despite his last few seasons being underwhelming), but I can completely understand why he may not be one for somebody else.
Young-ish for a keeper as you say but his outstanding trait was shot stopping which has declined due to age - Nothing else he had puts him above any other average keeper who will play for much less than he will.
None of those players had glittering international careers with the exception of Keane who comes from a relatively weak footballing country. Don't know what his international career has to do with his club career.
Scholes isn't anywhere near as revered by English fans of other clubs as he is by United fans for example, that backward logic doesn't make him any less of a United legend.
Bryan Robson "only" won two league titles here, in his final two seasons at the club, having been fortunate to have SAF put the club back on track right as his career here was ending. In both of those league winning seasons he contributed just 5 starts, 14 and 15 appearances in total. In four of the six seasons before that Robson had helped us to league positions as bad or worse than the worst of our post-SAF era finishes (6th, 13th, 12th, 11th). He also featured in the then European Cup for the first time at 36 years old.
People have to realise that when they try to downplay De Gea's status by dint of his and the club's relative lack of success during his time here, they're also downplaying the status of many other former players. Because one of the quirks of our club's history is that the overwhelming majority of our success came in just two periods under two managers.
People have to realise that when they try to downplay De Gea's status by dint of his and the club's relative lack of success during his time here, they're also downplaying the status of many other former players. Because one of the quirks of our club's history is that the overwhelming majority of our success came in just two periods under two managers.
Bryan Robson was in a shit team but he always preformed to a 8 out 10 most times, ddg was in some some poor united teams and preformed brilliantly to the odd mistake, ye can't compare the too, I do think ddg should be a legend and remembered but not to the level of Robson, that makes him no less important,
For me he is a legend but not as big as a lot of our other legends.
But this discussion has led me wondering who our other not so obvious legends could be.
Wes Brown for example won several league titles and 2 CLs with us with some great contributions/seasons.
He played full CL games as a 19 year old against Barca and Bayern in 98/99, after that break through season over the years he fought back from several long term injuries and always managed to get back in the team and then in 2007/08 when he had one of the very rare injury free seasons he was one of our best performers who helped us win the PL and CL double.
So while DdG has way more appearances than Brown (due to Brown’s injuries), Brown still contributed to many more big trophies.
Still I have never thought of him as a legend until now.
But this discussion has led me wondering who our other not so obvious legends could be.
Wes Brown for example won several league titles and 2 CLs with us with some great contributions/seasons.
He played full CL games as a 19 year old against Barca and Bayern in 98/99, after that break through season over the years he fought back from several long term injuries and always managed to get back in the team and then in 2007/08 when he had one of the very rare injury free seasons he was one of our best performers who helped us win the PL and CL double.
So while DdG has way more appearances than Brown (due to Brown’s injuries), Brown still contributed to many more big trophies.
Still I have never thought of him as a legend until now.
I don't disagree. My point is that if you overvalue winning trophies in terms of what's needed to make someone a club legend (whatever that even really means) then you are dismissing far too large a part of the club's history, and several players who should be and are considered legends for their contributions during less successful periods.
That doesn't mean they should all have the same status, but it does mean that using that argument to downplay the contribution of one also devalues the rest.
Martin Buchan would be another obvious example. 456 game for the club, "just" had FA Cup wins and a Second Division title to show for it. Yet regularly and rightly recognised among our greatest players.
De Gea was that way until the last few years though. So if he had left in 2019 would he be considered as highly as Robson? For me personally his diminished abilities in the last few years do not take away from how good he was from 2012-2018, and I think he should quite rightly be considered a legend and up there with Schmeichel, Van Der Sar, Gregg, and Stepney.
You only need 5 years of great form (2013-2018) with only one PL, one Europa (he didn’t contribute to that) and one FA Cup won in that time to be a legend? Disagree.
Disagree with all of this. De Gea hasn’t been an above average shot stopper for 5 seasons now. That’s half a decade.
His consistent errors started in the summer of 2018, when he was 27! Not old at all.
Finally, no top 4/6 club in Italy or Spain will touch him.
Still havent seen him linked with any club. Wouldnt surprise me if he ends up in Saudi Arabia.
There is one day when this will be true.
We have shit fans who dont know how to say goodbye without being dicks.
I have never, in over 30 years of watching football, seen a keeper made as many silly mistakes leading to goals like de Gea did. Mistakes after mistakes, goals after goals. And his slump loser body language after every mistakes. From 2019 till now, he’s probably one of the worst keepers in the league, but somehow some fans still want us to offer him a contract. So frigging glad he’s finally gone after years of truly poor performances. Definitely not a legend by any means, the past few years have put that to bed.
dodgy tv? yeah i used to have the same issue watching italian football on channel 4 in the 90s, you could kind of make out what was going on enough to get into it, but we didnt pay for it in ireland so it was kind of.....squiggly im fairly sure batistuta was a good player though
Then I think you are going to be shocked by Onana. The problem with De Get is that he set such a high standards during Van Gaal and Mourinho years whereby we were only winning games or not losing by his ability, that his inability to adapt to ETH's playing style has been blown all out of proportion.
Just go look at the Youtube videos of Onana where he let shots went in and you'll find that a lot of those are the ones that De Gea, even in his current form, would be able to save.
Tbh, Lloris had been consistently worse than DDG with regard to mistakes.
I have never seen a GK stealing a donut. Even if he already left the club Im still going to moan about it. He had sideburns like he was wolverine or something and his gf kept urging him to play for Real Madrid. I bet when Onana makes his first save De Gea wouldnt have save that.
Perhaps. I obviously don’t watch spurs as often but de gea’s mistakes are sometimes simply ridiculous. It doesn’t helps that he don’t have the balls and the swagger to put a mistake behind him. He just crumpled to pieces.
I’m referring to those absolute howlers, letting a ball slip under him, went through his legs, through his hands, brainless passes to teammates under pressure, etc
Watch this for what I meant.
I think there's a big difference. Actually across the field.
Football now is all about being proactive, GK or not. Be press-resistant whatever position you play. Howlers or not, DDG is unsuited for this kind of football. Onana is, howlers or not. End of .
Theres a video on youtube of the goals Onana conceded last season and from watching it Im not filled with confidence in his ability at all at shot stopping. Hopefully the rest of his game makes up for it and we score more than we concede.
I don't think anyone is considering him to be as good a shot stopper as De Gea was at his peak. However, his ball playing abilities, sweeping, and claiming of crosses will surpass De Gea, and are more suited to the style that Ten Hag seems to be trying to implement. It's a trade off between good enough shot stopping and amazing ball playing ability. With the improvement of the defensive personnel we should also concede less anyway.
That was my point. Its a new requirement where you need to play in a certain way (definition may differ) then your ability comes into the play. DDG may be even 10x better than Onana , doesn't do anything for this team. I think ETH made it very clear.
There is no debate on this one. Onana is miles better as a ball-playing GK than De Gea can ever be, and will be a huge improvement for ETH's system. However, if anyone is thinking that we get someone who is a better shot stopper in Onanan should temper their expectations.
I'm hoping that with Onana's ball playing skills means we have a much more coordinated defence that is less exposed to shots -> less chances for oppositions to score.
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Yeah it's easy to pull videos that focuses on a player's mistake as one that makes a player look like a superstar (any one remember the Pascal Cygan video?).
Watch these for what I mean (ignore the useless red circles)
He probably never heard of Lloris.
Wonder how many games into the season the first of the usuals will proclaim they're starting to miss him.
The more you watch the new guy the more worrying it becomes
The more you watch the new guy the more worrying it becomes
I think Onana will bring some entertainment with his antics on the ball and should help play through the press at times. But he is going to get targeted hard by teams on set pieces etc. He'll probably even encourage hard pressing too no doubt, so i just hope his confidence isn't misplaced.Wonder how many games into the season the first of the usuals will proclaim they're starting to miss him.
The more you watch the new guy the more worrying it becomes
Watch some of the comedy goals DDG conceded last year and you'd be saying the same thing.
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