I'd also be concerned if my partner was parading around on an internet forum for 20 hours a day under the title "Wumminator".
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I’d be certainly wary of you after
A) how many posts you’ve defended Greenwood
B) the name - that you chose yourself - is “tender teacher”
I know I'd find it very hard to support United with him on the field. The recording alone is enough for me as there is no context that can mitigate it enough imo.
I also like to think that young people in particular can learn, change and be "rehabilitated" but I also know that with DV it isn't that common and ingrained behaviors tend to re-emerge. I hope he gets a chance to recommence his career, as seems highly likley, but I hope far more than he proves that he has earnt and deserved that chance.
FFS
Let's not go down this road shall we? It won't end well.
I will give my head a Wibble.
I read the word order of that sentence wrong at first. I am now greatly relieved.
What was Best accused of that was worse than attempted rape?
What do some of you think the “full story” is?
The evidence provided was going to be enough to send Mason to court. In a sexual assault trial - that is massive. Because of the nature of sexual assault - simply getting to trial is a massive hurdle to overcome. The reason the case didn’t go forward was they couldn’t use this evidence anymore and thus a conviction was unlikely.
Do you not understand that based on your logic of the “full story” no one would ever be arrested. You could have audio and video proof of someone shooting someone but you could easily say “well hang on - we don’t have the full story here. Five minutes ago the victim could have pulled a gun himself and maybe even threatened to kill this person.”
Do you think every case ever is just the “full story”. Maybe a 24/7 account of what the people involved have done that week?
We have a person involved who has audio/image proof of sexual assault and this was enough for police to believe they had a conviction. There’s not much more of a “full story” to get.
The evidence provided was going to be enough to send Mason to court. In a sexual assault trial - that is massive. Because of the nature of sexual assault - simply getting to trial is a massive hurdle to overcome. The reason the case didn’t go forward was they couldn’t use this evidence anymore and thus a conviction was unlikely.
Do you not understand that based on your logic of the “full story” no one would ever be arrested. You could have audio and video proof of someone shooting someone but you could easily say “well hang on - we don’t have the full story here. Five minutes ago the victim could have pulled a gun himself and maybe even threatened to kill this person.”
Do you think every case ever is just the “full story”. Maybe a 24/7 account of what the people involved have done that week?
We have a person involved who has audio/image proof of sexual assault and this was enough for police to believe they had a conviction. There’s not much more of a “full story” to get.
You are really persistent with this “creepy” nonsense. Nobody here invented the idea of role play; it’s been suggested for 18 months.
United and Greenwood released a statement saying that the audios and videos were not what they looked like. Are we just going to call them liars and ignore it? No. Is role play completely impossible? No. Are we speculating about possibilities on a discussion forum? Yes.
Just because you don’t personally like the idea of it being role play doesn’t mean you have to twist and manipulate the idea. You have offered 0 reasons as to why it is impossible to be role play, and your posts seem to be deliberately antagonistic by repeating “ewww creep”.
There are a few reports of him knocking women around. And he also assaulted a cop when getting arrested for drink driving.
I am currently on holiday in Greece and I got talking to a couple who's daughter is friends with Greenwood's girlfriend. They said that there is a lot of information not in the public eye that would go in favour of Greenwood (as the club statement said)
He was in a dysfunctional and at times violent relationship after being a chronic alcoholic for 30-40 years and then married to a cocaine addict.
His behaviour was flawed and wrong but that's quite different from attempted rape charges as a 20 year old.
Think we need to be careful not to lump all actions into the same category.
Certainly he was arrested and charged based on the evidence that everyone has seen and heard. It seemed like an open and shut case.
However, it appears that during the investigation or discovery additional detail, context or outcome was presented or uncovered that, when combined with the withdrawal of key witnesses, rendered the possibility of conviction so remote that CPS dropped the charges. It is likely that this is related to the audio because that evidence is compelling enough to convict without any testimony from the other party as many posters have attested.
So it does look like there is more to the story than the general public is aware of.
Is it not incredibly possible that without a key witness willing to corroborate the audio - there was no chance of conviction.
As the post you replied to stated - the confluence of key witness withdrawal and new evidence coming to light effectively made the decision for the CPS. There'll be reams of info we won't be privvy to given that it didn't make it to court.
Eh?? Why on earth would someone quit their job because their boss was a domestic abuser? That's a totally ludicrous point to make. If my boss was a domestic abuser and I had proof then I would certainly report them.
I am not sure about the new evidence being a new material (as in full recording or new videos/pictures for example, or anything else independent from the key witness not cooperating or recanting their statement), CPS did not specify what is the nature of the "new evidence" but to answer Wimminator's question, a snippet of a recording can't be taken as an evidence without corroboration of the key witness, if the key witness either refuses to cooperate or recants, then the prosecution has no choice but not to pursue the case any further.
As of now, I am not sure if there is a new evidence and it seems that the fact that a key witness statement not being useful to the prosecution is the sole cause for CPS dropping charges.
"The club were satisfied that Greenwood did not physically harm the complainant"
I just want to understand. Is this a chris brown kinda situation or a johnny depp kinda situation?
I just want to understand. Is this a chris brown kinda situation or a johnny depp kinda situation?
If there was more info that proves his innocence I’d like to think greenwood and his missus would want to show this and he can pick up his United and international career
Rather than a year of doing nothing
I'm sure that if all parties involved had agreed to a full on PR campaign I think they could've swung public opinion enough to have him back here so it's curious they've not gone down that route. Not saying it's the right thing to do but you cannot underestimate the power of modern media in these things
On one hand I'm glad they didn't because the young lady involved has a right to privacy and anonymity and indeed so does mason tbf. On the other hand it'll likely make him restarting his career much harder. So many in this thread are calling for evidence of him taking steps to correct his behaviour but maybe he has, he could well have been undergoing therapy for the past 18 mths but wants that information kept private - it's not actually anyone else's business. One of the wider issues here is why do so many of us feel were entitled to every detail of these people's lives? No doubt the whole thing coming to light on social media then makes people feel they're entitled to be kept updated with every tiny detail. It's the whole people in the public eye argument and modern celebrity fan culture removing anyone's right to privacy
On one hand I'm glad they didn't because the young lady involved has a right to privacy and anonymity and indeed so does mason tbf. On the other hand it'll likely make him restarting his career much harder. So many in this thread are calling for evidence of him taking steps to correct his behaviour but maybe he has, he could well have been undergoing therapy for the past 18 mths but wants that information kept private - it's not actually anyone else's business. One of the wider issues here is why do so many of us feel were entitled to every detail of these people's lives? No doubt the whole thing coming to light on social media then makes people feel they're entitled to be kept updated with every tiny detail. It's the whole people in the public eye argument and modern celebrity fan culture removing anyone's right to privacy
There is no way the media were going to do anything but criticise Manchester United bringing him back regardless of our pr (which as has been proven, is shite), it's such easy point scoring on a club that is generally hated, and it would be completely justified as well in this instance.
I am not that bothered with what he has or hasn't been doing now he's no longer our problem, but I would say that if he was coming back for us, I would expect it to be made public if he had been having therapy or taking other steps to not be such a horrible person in some sort of attempt at showing he's reformed.
I am not that bothered with what he has or hasn't been doing now he's no longer our problem, but I would say that if he was coming back for us, I would expect it to be made public if he had been having therapy or taking other steps to not be such a horrible person in some sort of attempt at showing he's reformed.
I'm struggling to understand this logic. If you know your boss is a domestic abuser, you'd quit your job because... why? Are you suggesting that is the right thing to do?
I was answering what he had done/been accused of. I made no comparison with Greenwood's behavior.
The question you answered was what accusations did Best face as bad as attempted rape.
In giving examples you've drawn a comparison.
I still don't think some grasp just how messed up that audio clip was. How miswired the lad is when it comes to relationships, women and sex.
I’ve just assumed that the ‘new evidence’ referred to in the CPS press release probably referred to a revised witness statement/s contradicting the original complaint. Evidence can refer to such statements as well as recordings, physical evidence, etc.
I really didn't. If I was going to compare behaviors I would have done so. You are being unnecessarily pedantic.
And I entirely grasp how bad the audio clip was.
It hasn't been suggested to the public by the police, prosecution, United, or Greenwood, aka "people who have or may have had access to the tape." That's what we mean when we say it's invented: It's not backed by anything.
It's not even a good theory. It does not explain the photos (neither their raw existence nor the captions), it does not explain the admission of "mistakes" from Greenwood, it does not explain him taking "his share of responsibility" for the "events that lead to the social media post".
This is just romanticised garbage. He's a footballer, not the bloody pope.
The police didn’t say anything. The only thing we’ve had is that United and Greenwood said the images “weren’t what he was accused of”. Absolutely everything is pure speculation.
If those audios weren’t what he was accused of (attempted rape) then I think it’s quite normal of us to suggest possible alternatives, one of which was mentioned (on Twitter etc) as possible role play. It’s not “creepy” to repeat that possibility in this discussion.
I don’t understand why they didn’t just come out and do an interview . It could have saved his Utd career if the truth was told about the rest of the leak
What do you expect Greenwood would say?
Yes I'm a twat who said all that and that's what exactly what it meant.
And you imply tue the girl is a lying bitch trying to ruin mason's future?
Or it could have made things worse, depending on what the truth actually was.
I don't know what "the truth" is but it seems pretty clear that he's been advised to shut the feck up for a reason.
It’s 100% right that he leaves, but the statement from United is bizarre in the extreme. Basically saying he’s done nothing wrong but he can’t play for the club again, super weird . . .
And let’s face it, the issue of his guilt or not isn’t the issue here from the clubs perspective. It’s the backlash from sponsors potentially pulling away from the club that’s behind the decision, it’s about money, nothing else so don’t kid yourselves . . .
And let’s face it, the issue of his guilt or not isn’t the issue here from the clubs perspective. It’s the backlash from sponsors potentially pulling away from the club that’s behind the decision, it’s about money, nothing else so don’t kid yourselves . . .
No it's not. The bar is just " be good at football, don't be a criminal or at least don't get caught being one". That's a low low bar.
I can't believe there are still people going on about the role play stuff. That's about as credible as suggesting it's a different person named Mason speaking in the clip.
Greenwood (and United) didn’t need to say anything at all related to his guilt.
I haven’t actually seen what she said, so I’m not sure about the bolder part, but I certainly didn’t imply that. Whether she was lying or not, she was quick to retract whatever she said, so I’m guessing she didn’t understand the severity of what was said. Therefore, I don’t think she was trying to ruin and lives or careers.
Quality control
Hear me out. A few scenarios I can envision regarding attempted rape with someone you are in relationship 
- You propose sex to missus she refuses and you nag her beg her and she doesn't cave in - could be attempted rape as you didn't stop at first refusal and repeatedly tried to have sex with her and she wasn't gonna have it
- You propose sex to missus she refuses and you nag her beg her and she eventually gives in - could this also be a tiny rape as she was certainly not 100% in agreement
And if you turn it around
- You have a kid with your wife and she wants another one, you on the other hand are 90% sure you want it but not 100% - she will wear you down days, weeks, months, flirt with you, seduce you, provoke you and literally force you to have sex with her multiple times if not successful the first time - to convince you - could also be classified as rape in my book (although you enjoyed it all the time 100%)
And regarding George Best I'm 100% certain there were situations where he was drugged/drunk, beat women and forced them to have sex. But it never met the public eye.
Not to condone doing this but reaction to Greenwood case is over the top for me. Teenager on top of the world in his eyes behaving like he can have it all. Now sees that he cannot. Punish him. Make him attend classes, work on improving, community work, charities, donations. But why prevent him doing what he does best?
- You propose sex to missus she refuses and you nag her beg her and she doesn't cave in - could be attempted rape as you didn't stop at first refusal and repeatedly tried to have sex with her and she wasn't gonna have it
- You propose sex to missus she refuses and you nag her beg her and she eventually gives in - could this also be a tiny rape as she was certainly not 100% in agreement
And if you turn it around
- You have a kid with your wife and she wants another one, you on the other hand are 90% sure you want it but not 100% - she will wear you down days, weeks, months, flirt with you, seduce you, provoke you and literally force you to have sex with her multiple times if not successful the first time - to convince you - could also be classified as rape in my book (although you enjoyed it all the time 100%)
And regarding George Best I'm 100% certain there were situations where he was drugged/drunk, beat women and forced them to have sex. But it never met the public eye.
Not to condone doing this but reaction to Greenwood case is over the top for me. Teenager on top of the world in his eyes behaving like he can have it all. Now sees that he cannot. Punish him. Make him attend classes, work on improving, community work, charities, donations. But why prevent him doing what he does best?