When? It used to be true, but not so much in modern football. Looking at the last decade, aside for the odd Leicester or Wigan, the domestic competitions have been monopolized by very few clubs.
Roberto De Zerbi
- Thread starter Bastian
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When? It used to be true, but not so much in modern football. Looking at the last decade, aside for the odd Leicester or Wigan, the domestic competitions have been monopolized by very few clubs.
FA Cup - Leicester, Liverpool and Arsenal have all won it in the last 5 years.
Brighton have beaten Liverpool and United comfortable in the last 12-18 months, so I see no reason why they couldn't win the FA Cup or at least come runners up.
Carabao Cup belongs to City but Spurs, Villa, Arsenal and Southampton all runners up in recent years. Brighton should be able to match that with sure a great manager.
Unless we are just going to praise a team for playing pretty football and not expect anything in terms of silverware.
Liverpool and Arsenal are hardly Brighton in terms of resources and pulling power.
They could, and they may not. That's the way it goes in a knock out competition when bigger, stronger clubs are around.
We are going praise a team for playing good, pretty football, for bring in unknown players and making them better, for having a great structure that isn't dependent on anyone in particular. If they are doing a great job, then they are doing a great job. Winning, say, one league cup isn't going to make De Zerbi a better or a more proven manager.
Leicester winning the league didn't make Ranieri a great manager, Leicester winning the FA Cup didn't prevent United fans from being totally against the idea of Rodgers becoming our manager and not just because of his Liverpool past.
Or we just stop letting them sign their own players and tell them to work with what we’ve got until they’ve earned enough trust to spend some money.
It's funny how little fans seem to care about winning things these days...talk of possession stats and xG seems to be what matters most.
Which is cool, we can just praise him for pretty football then, zero expectation to win anything...the joys of managing a small team I guess.
Personally I will hold off making any judgement on him as good manager until he wins something, but that's because I value trophies more.
@Amir This isn't a direct response to your post btw I value your points
Which is cool, we can just praise him for pretty football then, zero expectation to win anything...the joys of managing a small team I guess.
Personally I will hold off making any judgement on him as good manager until he wins something, but that's because I value trophies more.
@Amir This isn't a direct response to your post btw I value your points
For that we need to have a proper DOF who is not acting as a yes man to the manager. What makes you believe the next manager won't want his players and the DOF that we have(if we have) does any competent job
We have a DOF, and he's chosen to allow the manager to sign however he wants instead of letting the scouting team do their job and find players that will improve us. If he told the manager to coach the team and let the signing of players be handled by the expensively assembled scouting team and network then the issue no longer exists. Sooner or later this is the approach we will land on because the money is going to dry up completely.
So basically a useless Dof we have. So what makes you feel any other manager will do well under this structure where the manager also acts like a scout and is also responsible for recruitment. Do you think De zebri scouts players for brighton. I can bet brighton will continue doing decent even after de zebri leaves. But we will continue to be like this.
Course it did, he had success elsewhere as well, what a weird statement. If you win a 38 premier League with Leicester, of course you're a great manager.
I don't think De Zerbi does that for Brighton but what I do think is that if an incoming manager is told there's no money, and if you're lucky you'll get over £50m a season if you sell a player then the mindset of the job changes. The manager has to make it work with what he has and he has to find ways to find cheaper players who can make a difference, meaning he's going to insist on the scouting network being top notch and being allowed to do their jobs to the best of their ability, and that's what we need to arrive at if we're going to be successful again.
We're trying to buy success today with signings like Casemiro and now it looks like we already have to replace him, and we all know you can't buy a league title buy signing a couple of players. You have to grow the team over a couple of years.
It was a good contest to begin with, United pressed well and closed off our outlets from defence, then we changed and split our centre backs further apart and used the space you left on the wings and that changed the game as you didn’t adapt.
Flavour of the month; would no doubt fail here as well. Only someone in the mould of guardiola or klopp could sort this mess. Even that’s probably debatable.
It was a great achievement, but I don't think it made him a great manager.
I like Ranieri, I always thought he wasn't given enough respect even before 2015/16. But while he had the odd achievement, there was nothing even close to that year at Leicester - before or after.
Being considered great requires more than one year in an almsot 40-year career.
I think Jesus Christ could return from the dead and manage us and he’d still feck it up.
Hi Brighton fan here. Thought I’d chip in with a little background.
It’s all about Tony Bloom (Owner) and Paul Barber (CEO). These 2 are the secret. The rest is all about the system they have put in place.
Tony Bloom hired Dan Ashworth who came in from England where he had developed the FA England squad DNA etc about 7 years ago. Quite a coup for us at the time but Tony Bloom saw him as someone who could build a structure. Every transfer window since has seen signings that were for “the U16’s / U17’s / U18’s etc and loans out to lower EFL teams and unheard of teams in Europe.
Then Newcastle offered DA the petrodollar, and TB put him on garden leave for 6 months whilst replaced with Paul Winstanley (his deputy)
We sold Ben White to Arsenal for £50m. He cost nothing, but we loaned out to Newport, Peterborough, and then Leeds, before playing for us in the Prem for one season. Webster/Burn stepped into the hole left.
Then we sold Bissouma to Tottenham £35m. Stand out player for us. Upgraded him for Caicedo who had been with us for 12months out on loan. A player who had been courted by you guys, but you decided the transfer arrangements from South America were too complex. Something we had learned through experience with a player called Billy Arce, so felt confident when dealing with Moises.
Then Chelsea took Paul Winstanley. Upgraded him with David Wier (made deputy when Ashworth left)
Then sold our POS Cucerella to Chelsea for £60m (who they then went and broke). Upgraded him to Estupinian.
Then sold Potter and all our backroom staff to Chelsea for £20m. Next off the rank was De Zerbi (thank you Chelsea).
Then lost Trossard to Arsenal for £30m after a De Zerbi refused to play him after a training ground bust up.
Upgraded him for Mittoma who we bought from Kawasaki in the J1 league a year earlier for £2.5m and had loaned out to Belgium side USG.
Lost Sanchez (who was developed on loan through Forest Green Rovers and Rochdale before he replaced Marty Ryan) to Chelsea after a hissy fit at being dropped by De Zerbie for Jason Steele. Feels like an upgrade. Got £20m from Chelsea for him. Jason was £1m. His replacement is Vertbruggen with Carl Rushford waiting in the wings.
Then we have recently lost Caicdo and McAllister (A player we signed and then loaned back to Argentinos and then Bocca for development, before bringing back to Brighton where he went on to win the World Cup and finish 6th in the PL). Ensisco (winner of goal of the season) is coming on fine.
Other Replacements are Dahood, Gilmour, and Balbea.
And then we have Evan Ferguson from Bohemians signed into the Academy at age 16 3 years ago who seems to being touted now for £120m at the momen.
All this is being knitted together by a certain Roberto De Zerbie, but Tony Bloom and Paul Barber control the levers.
Tony Bloom has all staff (including cleaners, stewards etc) at the club on a bonus scheme, the higher we finish the higher the bonus. All staff share in the success of the club. The irony is that he insures against this potential success. The higher we finish, the higher the bonus payout, and the more money he makes from the insurance payout!!
Playing in Europe on Thursday. Will be pinching myself as I take my seat on Thursday. Mad times as an Albion fan.
Maybe look at his career then. He took Cagliari from Serie C to Serie A and won several cups with different teams. That one year was the pinnacle in a great career. De Zerbi would do well to equal Ranieris.
Doesn't Bloom also have his proprietary data system from his gambling company, which helps with scouting these unknown gems?
It’s not a gambling company as such. It takes money from high end clients and “invests” on their behalf based upon data that his company collect on what feels like every footballer on the planet. That data is key to his success and it identifies players that fit the profile which BHA are after. Final first team decisions lie with RDZ, but this process means we don’t have hundreds of scouts, but just use them more efficientl.
Probably. I'm also thinking about the moronic oppo fans saying blaming the Glazers is an excuse.
I'd happily take them.
Very informative, thank you
This was a great goal, gorgeous football. They’re so calm and patient on the ball. If you follow Bruno around in that whole sequence you can tell he was utterly demoralised chasing shadows like that.
92 goals scored in his 44 games apparently
HITC did a good video on exactly this.
Very insightful post.
There is nothing that compares to the spotlight of United boss bar Real Madrid and Barcelona.
All these shiny new toys that everyone wants because they’re fed up after barely more than 1 season from a manager!
Rinse and repeat could easily turn into 20 years of shite
Sorry, but no. Being manager of Manchester United still is a pretty low pressure job. Real Madrid and Barcelona are definitely good examples, but they are not the only ones. Just last season Bayern München fired Nagelsmann who was on course to win a treble because they didn't trust him to do so. PSG also is a club that regularly fires its managers for little performance dips as well as some other top clubs who hold their staff accountable.
Meanwhile as a United manager you usually have to be shit for two or three seasons until you are fired and many fans still think it is "their job to trust the manager" when it is already clear to everyone looking at the club that the manager won't turn it around (not referring to EtH - not yet at least).
And in regard to the post you responded to - well, Brighton wins more than they should be able to, considering their resources, so that's why they are being praised. If this is enough to win a cup is doubtful, but if they wouldn't be winning as much as they are, nobody would care.
I don’t think that’s true. This guy is outcoaching mostly everyone he comes up against. I think ETH is not the coach you all thought he was and I think it’s just a bad fit between him and united. If he can’t coach a team of stars to play as good as a depleted Brighton team how can he possibly take united back to the top. I used to think it was your players but now it’s the managers. You haven’t found the right one.
They were good at beating United's high press. United couldn't press them. He has them playing beautiful football. City will struggle against them.
United haven't been challenging for major honours for a decade yet they are still the one club above all others in the premier League that gets the most attention. After every defeat,rumour and numerous nonsense going on behind the scenes it gets over analysed. Many UK journalists have made a name for themselves with click bait United related articles. That alone isn't a low pressure situation for any manager and all of those that talk and talk about United couldn't care less or want to hear that United are so poorly ran under the Glazers making a pressured job all the more difficult.
Trying to fill the void left by Ferguson's retirement is on going, each new manager has to handle that pressure as they try to turn this huge ship around and in the last decade managers at United didn't get the time to have two or three shit seasons. Moyes was sacked in his first season once it was known United couldn't reach the Champions League. LVG sacked for just missing out on the Champions league and winning the FA Cup couldn't save him, Jose delivered 2 cups in his first season, followed by a 2nd place league finish and was sacked 17 games into the next season. Ole 2nd place finish in the league, lost a cup final on penalties and sacked 12 games into the next season
Ten Hag 3rd place finish and won a cup in his first season to now a poor start to this season and more positive results will have to come swiftly in order to be manager again next season.
Exactly. There are so many things to factor in to be successful, so sacking a manager every few years is not a great strategy
Informative post, thanks.
seems like a thing you guys do well, is buy an unknown, put him on loan for a year to develop then acclimatise him to your squad and the PL. it seems like a never ending production line
Really good post.
Despite the result on Saturday, Brighton are probably my second favourite team in England right now.
It's incredibly impressive how you keep bringing through such good players and keep playing entertaining, winning football.
I really hope you win the Europa League this season. It would be an incredible, yet fully deserved achievement if you do.
Brighton won't last, they're a modern day Southampton.
When they're struggling to recruit like they have been (and they will) they'll slide back down the table.
When they're struggling to recruit like they have been (and they will) they'll slide back down the table.
Absolutely, and at our club the Glazers and the CEOs they hire are the main cause of all problems and nothing will change with those in charge.
Great insight and post thanks.
United were barely pressing in that video. Watching it back I'm actually surprised by how much casual jogging the United players are doing while Brighton are just pinging it around with almost zero pressure. That was an alarmingly very very easy goal for Brighton.
I think some people just don't understand pressing traps.
Just like Arsenal against us last week, you do not widely press a team like Brighton, you create pressing traps and zones and go off triggers.
Our main issue was that when the ball went wide, our wide midfielders McTominay and Eriksen did not do enough to help the fullbacks, and the midfidlers did not track runners from deep.
Teething issues with the diamond setup, which ETH did not adjust to well enough. The plan was to not let them build through the middle, De Zerbi switched to using wide switches to break us down and we were not defensively switched on enough to deal with it
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Yep this is spot on for me.
He is coaching players that fit the club's philosophy, though. Read the post above from the Brighton fan and you can see that they already have replacements for nearly everyone that they lose, which means they signed those players based on their attributes and how they fit the club, not under pressure in a 'replacing a sale' situation.
This is the polar opposite of how Utd works. We almost exclusively sign players based on the whims of the current manager, usually having to settle for a second or third choice, off the back of an injury or a player leaving/falling out with the manager.
I get what you mean by pressing traps. Full pitch pressing isn't always needed, and it's unsustainable, teams who typically go all guns blazing in the press usually tire out very quickly.
I'm seeing nothing in that clip though. Brighton moved up and around the pitch very easily and scored. You set up very high for the goal kick but once they broke the initial press, which was very halfhearted to begin with, I didn't much else to try and win the ball back.
Brighton by passed our press by exploiting the free fullback due to our narrow midfield setup, and we did not adjust to it. Our plan was to not allow them access to build through the middle of the pitch which worked well at first.
They adjusted to build wide, our defending out wide was not good enough