You know the word "condemn" means more than someone is in prison right? Right?
Yeah, it's still hysterical.
You know the word "condemn" means more than someone is in prison right? Right?
Greenwood has been loaned out and by all accounts support has been provided to the alleged victim and Greenwood off the field.I fully expect him back in the squad next year. I think January will be too soon but do think he'll come back next summer.
I've already gradually stopped watching United more and more to the point where I've only watched 2 matches this season and don't feel like I've missed out on anything. This whole situation and the general clear lack of morals at the club has already sped up that process of not watching and him coming back will just speed it up even more.
How many talented academy players from the last 20 years have fulfilled their potential with us?Think it’s clear you are underrating his talent to be honest.
Think your black and white heavily biased comment says more about you than those who are interested in how he does... If you want to lump everyone together into one group because they don't have the same opinion as you then fair enough, keep banging the drum thoughLet's be honest, the only reason any of you would actually watch a Getafe Osasuna match just to see him is because you want him back at United.
Honestly you’d be surprised. They’re a weird bunch, maybe not a massive amount, but they do certainly existence. Twitter is cesspit and you can find them on there.I think some get a bit crazy over players, but no-one supports an average footballer or a young lad who has proven nothing more than a club.
Ronaldo, Messi, maybe even Mbappe, but not the likes of Greenwood.
I actually dont want him back.Let's be honest, the only reason any of you would actually watch a Getafe Osasuna match just to see him is because you want him back at United.
I actually think its quite interesting from a football perspective as well. An elite level talent who hasn't played for nearly 2 years, seeing whether he can get back to the level he was, let alone even still make it in a top league.Totally agree - there are clearly many reasons to take an interest.
After all this is a Manchester United Forum and he is still a Manchester United player.
I'm sure the majority of posters here will take some level of interest in how he is getting on, it's only natural.
At the moment my main motivation is (A) as I'm genuinely interested to see what kind of mental/physical state he is in after 18months out the game.
BTW anyone can start a Loan Watch thread, feel free to do so, although Im not sure if it would avoid the same boring discussion anyway.
I’m not sure why you’ve taken issue with Sizzling’s post, I thought you stated that you want him back at your club?Think your black and white heavily biased comment says more about you than those who are interested in how he does... If you want to lump everyone together into one group because they don't have the same opinion as you then fair enough, keep banging the drum though
What is?Yeah, it's still hysterical.
The language you're using.What is?
Sorry - what are you on about? What language?The language you're using.
Sorry - what are you on about? What language?
I expressed that if someone has allegedly done a despicable, evil thing, rather than condemn them forever, there has to be a rehabilitative way back to redemption.
If the use of "condemn" there is your issue, I don't know what to tell you - condemnation does not mean incarceration. It's a much broader word, and is commonly used in much broader terms in general communication. This is not a novel use of the term at all
Who's condemning him? The public - as evidenced in this thread.He's been (not fully) let go from his employer because of his behaviour. The hyperbole painting him as a victim is pathetic.
Who's condemning him?
He said he didn't do it. It's not really a question of repentance.The clamour of people actively wishing evil on him, even in this thread is a lot mo
I'm saying as a society, we can't afford to lose the concept of redemption (this includes public perception), that is, for people who are genuinely repentant - and I have no clue if Greenwood is or not.
Ah there are idiots on both sides of every argument. It's absurd to base your stance as a response to them.Who's condemning him? The public - as evidenced in this thread.
The clamour of people actively wishing evil on him, even in this thread is a lot more pathetic. You can have no time for someone, but to spend energy actively wishing evil is mental.
I'm not painting him as a victim, the situation he's found himself in is completely his fault based on what we heard.
I'm saying as a society, we can't afford to lose the concept of redemption (this includes public perception), that is, for people who are genuinely repentant - and I have no clue if Greenwood is or not.
No arguments there - was referring specifically to the group of people I mentionedAh there are idiots on both sides of every argument. It's absurd to base your stance as a response to them.
Redemption isn't a button, it's a process.
In my personal experience when you argue against the lunatic fringe you just look like a mirror image of their lunacy. It's lose lose. Because they don't respond to logic anyway.No arguments there - was referring specifically to the group of people I mentioned
Usually yes, but as you explained yourself, just in this instance we'll contain all the madness in one place.BTW anyone can start a Loan Watch thread, feel free to do so, although Im not sure if it would avoid the same boring discussion anyway.
There seemed to be an expectation that he would be completely not match fit after 19 months away. He looked more like a player returning from a few weeks off due to injury than someone out of the game for nearly 2 years. I would expect him back in good form once he settles in and integrates into their tactics.He had some good opportunities in that game. I'm surprised how good he looked after so long out.
Have a feeling he’ll be back in a United shirt next season.Can’t wait till the prick fecks off forever and I don’t have to hear wank posts about how harshly he has been treated for 1.5 years.
I can only see it happening after he is cleared in the court of public opinion. Which I would not rule out happening over the next yearHave a feeling he’ll be back in a United shirt next season.
Would suggest it will never happen. The court of public opinion has actually seen and heard the evidence, which is pretty damning and uncomfortable stuff. If these were just allegations without the evidence, he’d be playing for you now.I can only see it happening after he is cleared in the court of public opinion. Which I would not rule out happening over the next year
I would imagine that a vast majority of those who follow United want him back. A significant majority of those who follow United are based in Asia, Africa, the US, where this issue isn't on the radar at all. They simply want to see United win and see him as a needed component of that process.Would suggest it will never happen. The court of public opinion has actually seen and heard the evidence, which is pretty damning and uncomfortable stuff. If these were just allegations without the evidence, he’d be playing for you now.
The fact remains that there are a sizeable minority of Manchester United supporters, as there are in any club, who simply don’t care what he did because he’s “one of our own”. Tribalism in football is a whole different level to say, an actor or singer being accused of similar behaviour.
This has been consistently and repeatedly evidenced throughout the thread. If you actually challenge these people on their views having seen the material which is public, it’s back to the stock defence of “but the club said he didn’t do it, and the CPS didn’t prosecute”. Which of course go hand in hand anyway.
As I say, if these were allegations without the evidence we’ve all born witness to, it would be done and dusted. But that evidence is out there - forever - and people aren’t going to just wipe it from their minds or excuse what they’ve seen and heard.
He will never play for Manchester United again. Your sponsors will not tolerate it, supporters groups will not tolerate it, your women’s football team won’t support it. It will never happen.
Seriously? You're actually arguing that people based in Asia, Africa, the US care less about allegations of rape and domestic assault that people based in Europe? That's a hell of a hot take, I'll give you that.I would imagine that a vast majority of those who follow United want him back. A significant majority of those who follow United are based in Asia, Africa, the US, where this issue isn't on the radar at all. They simply want to see United win and see him as a needed component of that process.
Is it possible that this break will help him to prolong his career?
Being away for so long has made people overrate him to the heavens on here, iirc his last season at the club before the suspension he wasn't showing much growth if any, Madrid have better talents than him in Rodrygo, Vinicius and possibly Endrick, while also more than likely Mbappe, maybe Barca? but he doesn't strike me as a Barca type player at all.He is/was an incredible talent but nowhere near the level for Madrid to have even considered making a move for him back then.
Given everything that has gone on since, he'll be nowhere near the minds of any big clubs for a while yet.
Even if he does well at Getafe, he'll probably need a move to a Sevilla/Valencia type club and have at least 18 months of consistently good performances there before Madrid/Barca come calling for him with a serious bid. That's also assuming he stays out of trouble.
Players with more potential than him have failed to reach the top. Its not just about talent.
Growth is never linear, only players like Messi shows insane linear growthBeing away for so long has made people overrate him to the heavens on here, iirc his last season at the club before the suspension he wasn't showing much growth if any, Madrid have better talents than him in Rodrygo, Vinicius and possibly Endrick, while also more than likely Mbappe, maybe Barca? but he doesn't strike me as a Barca type player at all.
the us elected trump, and probably will do again.Seriously? You're actually arguing that people based in Asia, Africa, the US care less about allegations of rape and domestic assault that people based in Europe? That's a hell of a hot take, I'll give you that.
If you look at the broader online sentiment (beyond the loud but narrow ecosystem of British podcasters and activists) there is little support to not have him return. The friendly reception he's received in Spain only reinforces this.Seriously? You're actually arguing that people based in Asia, Africa, the US care less about allegations of rape and domestic assault that people based in Europe? That's a hell of a hot take, I'll give you that.
The opposition fans loudly chanting “Die Greenwood, Die” in unison?If you look at the broader online sentiment (beyond the loud but narrow ecosystem of British podcasters and activists) there is little support to not have him return. The friendly reception he's received in Spain only reinforces this.
Oppo fans also throw coins and banana peels at players. This is par for the course among a very small subsection of fans in specific countries. The reception he has received by his loan club seems to be overwhelmingly positive.The opposition fans loudly chanting “Die Greenwood, Die” in unison?
Especially when he wasn't the most dedicated on the training pitch like it was rumored was the case with him even before the allegations came out.Growth is never linear, only players like Messi shows insane linear growth
Regardless his growth rate was not unusual. Infact it was very advanced for a player of his age and profileEspecially when he wasn't the most dedicated on the training pitch like it was rumored was the case with him even before the allegations came out.
Europeans are more noble tongue in cheekSeriously? You're actually arguing that people based in Asia, Africa, the US care less about allegations of rape and domestic assault that people based in Europe? That's a hell of a hot take, I'll give you that.