Care to name them, or are you just guessing?
Erik ten Hag vs Sancho
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All the good ones, you know, like Maguire, McTomminay, Martial, Sancho, DVB. The real difference makers.
Well if it is Maguire and McT, I can personally vouch to go and pick them up on my back to carry them to the airport.
If Jadon can't even be bothered to apologise to get back into the team, then he certainly isn't going to run through a brick wall for the manager on the pitch.
So there is no point in missing a player like that...the team needs leaders and characters to turn around the current form, Sancho isn't made of that stuff.
So there is no point in missing a player like that...the team needs leaders and characters to turn around the current form, Sancho isn't made of that stuff.
Never sure why how much someone gets paid comes into it. Being happy doing your job never equates to just about how much you get paid.
Not sure why people believe that there can only be their truth like its a science. Sancho has zero currency to share any view but that doesnt mean he is wrong.
The club is like any workplace, Im pretty sure there are a significant number of workmates that agree with him, many of them will be his friends outside of 'work' too. If you see how someone at work is being treated and you dont agree with it, its going to create a dynamic between management and staff.
We see this stuff through the lens of fans, its different when you are an employee..
Where is the respect to the fans that pays his paycheck?
Different argument. If being good is the basis of how you are treated then we are going to hell in a handcart. I wonder if Sancho was scoring 30 goals a year, whether fans would have the same energy.....
What if he was right, would you respect him for taking such a stance or is our view clouded cause hes been shit?
Strange cause all of us are guessing unless you are in that changing room? I guessing you are not and think we are all offering a view based on our own perception of the facts arent we?
Can you not see that this is cause and effect?
The manager demands more of you, tells you to run more, your conditioning improves, you have more intensity in games, you can perform better at your job and have more confidence in what you’re doing. Sancho will never score 30 goals a season because he only sees problems with people telling him what to do. He’s not willing to do the hard yards because he doesn’t see the value in it.
If Sancho had the same energy as half the fans he’d be playing now.
No idea but its funny cause didnt wan bissaka go to New York with him mid week whilst this craziness was going one? Not the actions of a player that wants to distance himself from a 'problem player'. I suspect Rashford might be not too happy about how is mate is treated too....but just guessing.
What? We are still waiting for an apology?
Go to sleep United. He won't text back.
Go to sleep United. He won't text back.
Who gives a feck? If they’re not happy with the treatment of him and they feel the manager is unfairly making him a scapegoat then they can voice their concerns in house and crack on with their jobs. If they really want to be stupid about it, they can end their United career and move on, which won’t happen because why would you stick your neck out for a bloke that won’t turn up on time and is shit?
You’ve also conveniently mention two players who have publicly fell fowl of Ten Hags standards and come back better for it.
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I'm sure you have socialised with someone from work you think is lazy at work? Doesn't mean you agree with their performance.
ETH deserves criticism for in game stuff but he gave sancho every chance. He let him leave mid season to train and get fit.
This guy is a young man with everything in his court to perform. If he can't be bothered to train hard and give 100% what choice do you have with him?
This is one side of ETH that I really like. He won't accept certain things and sticks by those principles.
To me it’s actually a question of professionalism. There are plenty of examples, even at United where players didn’t even like each other, but their desire to succeed over rided their desire “to be happy”.
That’s clap trap nonsense too for people who maybe just shouldn’t be playing at the peak level of sports or their careers.
If it’s too much for you to do your job when everything isn’t to your liking, maybe you don’t have what it takes to be the best version of yourself on field.
How is Sanchos career benefiting from what he is doing? There’s your answer to “players needing to be happy”, sabotaging his own career, well done lad, at least everybody knows he is not happy with the manager, I’m sure this will help him become the best player he can be and there will be plenty of top clubs willing to let him take months off while he figures this all out.
It’s not much of a hatchet job. He calls out Sancho’s failings and highlights that ETH was right to be critical just not in public. When the results aren’t going our way and we have multiple off the field stories going on then perhaps bringing up about Sancho to add more fuel to the fire wasn’t the best idea.
What can be kept internal should be kept internal. SAF had siege mentality; us versus them. He wouldn’t speak to the BBC for years after they did an exposé on his son. He’d deflect on poor performances by complaining about refs.
And ultimately did this move work for ETH? No. He didn’t get an apology, there’s been no team reaction or better performances, the leaks continue in the press and you get multiple news articles suggesting that it’s been badly handled. So it’s been lose lose for all involved.
Its a view but neither you or me knows whether Sancho sees problems with people telling him what to do. You dont think you become professional footballer on that basis. I dont think utd play 80m if it was as much a problem as people make it out to be.
For me this isnt just about whether he trains well or not. If he doesnt, he should not play. Its whether everyone is treated the same and also when they are poor match day.
I think some players, especially those bought by EtH are treated different which I think might be part of the problem.
We don’t know if he treats people differently or not, and from my experience the people who usually make this complaint are dickheads who are trying to divert attention away from themselves. Maybe some other players have been late before, maybe they had a very valid excuse that Sancho wasn’t made privy to, but at the end of the day it’s none of his business. His business is to do whatever the manager tells him and play football matches.
I’m sure you’ve seen the articles that say that Dortmund's assistant coach used to come and knock on Sancho’s door before meetings so he didn’t oversleep and get into trouble. He’s called himself a scapegoat at Dortmund when they told him to get his shit together and he’s been kicked out of the England camp for missing meetings and being late.
The evidence against Sancho is overwhelming, and you can’t run a football club with one guy doing whatever he wants and still playing, what kind of message does that send to the rest of the squad who’ve already faced punishments for being late?
Maybe but also a matter of principle. Im not privvy to all the facts and I guess given Sanchos past exploits, it taints his view. However, something feels different and I dont subscribe to the view this is just coming from the players who arent playing.
Something has shifted and Im unsure its an happy camp. Maybe its a combination of factors, we know many werent happy how DDG was treated, maybe others who were popular like Fred too.
God knows....
But it's the complete opposite. He has been a massive failure. He is the highest paid player (afaik). If he was banging in 30 goals then this wouldn't have been an issue, because he would be performing and earning his salary. You're starting to overreach with your view that Sancho isn't being treated fairly here. I'd quit.
ETH did keep it in house for a year. Then he gave the player months off to figure this all out.
Alex Ferguson would have offloaded Sancho in the summer had he been manager. He wouldnt of accepted basically zero reciprocation from the player of the efforts ETH (and the club since he joined).
But united don’t offload expensive flops so our managers are stuck trying to figure out ways to get something out of them. Mourihno did it with Shaw and it actually helped, Shaw didn’t shy away and whinge on twitter
Odd thing to say about one of the most insipid, spineless big money forward players the league has ever seen.
Pepe was less of a failure than sancho in the prem.
I think you are correct that there’s a number of factors involved.
If I’m a player who wants to win the league or CL , do I want a moping and consistently under performing Sancho on my team?
I would say there is equally players fed up with his attitude and lack of improvement. It’s very easy to imagine all players think the same but to be honest I don’t think players at city would give two sh*te if an underperforming player was dropped and Pep said he wasn’t working hard enough. I don’t even think pep would get any sh*t about either
The issue for ETH is that there’s alot going on and going wrong at the same time. Some he can influence, some he’s made worse and some he can only try and manage as best we could hope (like Ronaldo last season)
You've put the cart before the horse. A player can't score 30 goals in a season with the kind of effort levels and attitude that Sancho has (assuming that he has the capacity to get fit enough to play 90 minutes at a high level, which I've never seen from him in a Man Utd shirt). He has to change his mindset in order to be a PL level player, let alone a good PL level player.
Agree with some of that but the bit I dont understand is why did both EtH and Sancho choose to react in an unprecedented way.
I think ironically, the argument is based on not one player doing what he wants, maybe others too, just not treated all the same for doing so.
For example the allegations around Anthony were there long before the club intervened. In fact, the club only responded after the Brazil Fed did.
Maybe these players should focus on their football and less on what happens to other individuals but thats not how clubs work. If you dont treat players fairly or anyone in a workplace, questions will be asked. Whilst its not them today, they will think whats stopping it being them tomorrow?
Im not pro DDG but how he was treated was pretty shocking and there was never any issues about his professionalism either.
Not a fan of Harry either and whilst he has been shit, that aside its pretty condescending how he was treated too.
The greatest manager every was ruthless but he was classy in how he dealt with these kinds of issues with the minimal amount of fuss.
EtH is a bit clumsy, gives mixed messages and I think hes going to have to learn quickly otherwise rightly or wrongly, these players will down tools.
Sancho basically looks like somebody who can’t handle the pressure of expectations and attention at United.
Using mental health as an excuse is well, an excuse. I’ve had savage mental health issues all my life and one thing I’ve learned is that sometimes I need to do something if a situation with people places and things are making me unwell. I can’t expect everyone and everything else to fit what I need. There seems to be this idea that we should all be doing everything to make poor little Jadon feel loved and happy. Why? That’s not part of the contract with fans , especially if you are giving absolutely nothing in return.
Im pretty confident Sancho could have gotten a very lucrative move to Saudi Arabia and be none the poorer from it. I’m also pretty confident we could have gotten a few quid for him, a write down but a few quid.
He chose not to move because he doesn’t accept he’s not good enough and so he chose to remain in an environment he can’t handle. He can’t handle the pressure and he’s made a decision to remain in that environment. So I’ve no sympathy for him.
Having mental health issues doesn’t mean you get a pass mark at the highest standards. It could mean you need to accept you aren’t able for that high level and maybe you need to move to a lower level to help. Not tweet sh*t about your manager, he’s not the one making you an unreliable trainer.
He could be turning up late, training shit but still banging in the goals, and the point is it should still matter. My point isnt whether he is treated fairly, its Sancho's view that he isnt.
Im saying whilst people are saying its about being late, Im saying it might not be just that. EtH didnt say he turned up late, he said he was training to the right standard and drops him from the match squad.
Are people telling me that Harry is given EtH sees him as 5th choice?
Really? EtH never qualified what he wasnt doing. He just said 'standards'. That can mean a number of things that many have interpreted to mean turning up late, not running etc.
Like said, Harry, Scott et al must be then if we are using broad statements like 'standards'.
I suspect in a squad, there would be others over a season but hes never left them out the match day squad, much less name them and the reason why?
But we don’t know this? He was asked about Sancho wasn’t he? This could have happened other times but simply wasn’t asked about whatever player it was.
Offload to who? Were there offers for Sancho this summer other than Saudi?
Not many will risk taking on Sancho for 40m and his salary expectations.
United don't sell their flops because of players refusing to move over reduced salary. They also don't seem to come to United either unless they get crazy salaries. Round and round we go.
Incredible that Sancho, who has never looked like he can run for more than 60 minutes in the 2 years he’s been with us, continues to get the benefit of the doubt from some fans.
Saudis are throwing stupid money around at the moment, even Lingard is gonna get a decent contract.
Sancho would be a perfect “star” signing, relatively much cheaper then the crazy money they are throwing out for has beens.
apparantky United could of made the Maguire transfer work but we wouldn’t pay himoff. Either you are a super club serious about clearing out deadwood or you are a tinpot amateur hour wannabe who won’t do what it takes to overhaul the squad. My monies on the latter because that’s always how United appear to do things.
Why is United the only rich club in the world who has this issue? Why can Man City , Chelsea (under Roman) and other clubs just move on from failed players? Because old Trafford is run by incompetent morons but it’s easier to blame managers for everything so that’s what happens.
............. They haven't though, they've acted like two people who are sick to death of the other person's shit. And we've always had players like this, even under Fergie, the difference is you have more good lads than dickheads and the dickheads get ostracised and get turfed out before they can even play consistently. We've allowed bad players with questionable attitudes to get a foothold in the club because we're desperate for bodies in certain positions.
Ah come on, the same manager that kicked a boot at David Beckham's face then sold him to Madrid for a measly £25m, turfed out the captain and legend because he had a go at the players in a video that never aired (which the players agreed with anyway), told the press Rooney wanted to join City because he asked for a new contract etc
Divorce is ugly and no one leaves the highest point of their career without at least voicing their side of the story. The players will always call a manager out who tries to get rid of them.
Glazers is the answer
Exactly, if you have monkeys in charge your probably gonna have to settle on a circus
Yep and if he said, its an internal issue then we wouldnt have the shit show we have now. And for what, we dont even know what 'standards' he wasnt adhering to?
At least when it was Rashford, it was Rashford who told the media he was late.
Not sure what EtH hoped to gain from it about a player who wasnt starting anyway.....
Yes I will have to adhere with managers word here. We have seen Sancho for two years.
Yep might be right but we are in a different world of social media where the audience isnt reliant on whats on the back page.
Also many of the issues where found out much later and often we had to wait till it was in someones book.
Divorce is ugly, but even more so if someone goes public that they were sleeping with the post man. Not everything needs to be said especially to the vultures in the media.
Also if the lad suppose to have had issues with his mental health, why would you call him out like this?