Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[Superden]

I’ve just been through this cnuts Twitter. Literally ticks every box of idiocy. Covid misinformation, climate change denier, sucks Elon Musk’s cock, and pro-Zionism.

And 500k followers...

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Just a reminder what is regarded as terrorism.
terrorism

1. the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
   ​

 

[owlo]

It is illegal in densely populated area. It is only allowed as a smokescreen for your own troops which aren't in Gaza right now.

More bollocks. It’s literally a war crime to use in civilian areas.

Air fired is illegal. These were likely fired from M109 paladins. Some years back the Supreme Court asked them not to use it, and they replied theyll never use air fired, and only ground fired in 2 extreme circumtrances (which were sealed, so we don’t know)

I’ve not read this article specifically, but the site is legit.

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/jus-bello-white-phosphorus-getting-law-correct

edit: skimmed it now, I can copy and paste relevant bits if needed,

 

[The Corinthian]

Air fired is illegal. These were likely fired from M109 paladins. Some years back the Supreme Court asked them not to use it, and they replied theyll never use air fired, and only ground fired in 2 extreme circumtrances (which were sealed, so we don’t know)

I’ve not read this article specifically, but the site is legit.

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/jus-bello-white-phosphorus-getting-law-correct

‘Likely fired’ - unsubstantiated bollocks. Why can’t you just stop with the unsubstantiated bollocks?

 

[neverdie]

Air fired is illegal. These were likely fired from M109 paladins

That's cathechism. It's a game of Orwellian semantics. It's a gas attack.

 

[Badunk]

I can't believe someone is justifying the use of chemical weapons on a trapped civilian population because they're fired from a different type of weapon.

 

[Raoul]

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Shapiro posted the same pic that is being used by mainstream media. Its one of the three the Israeli PM office released earlier today.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

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Despite me putting nothing past that little shit I don't think the picture in question has been demonstrated fake at all. The AI detector that keeps being mentioned is free to the public (aiornot.com). When I used it the image came back verified "human." I'll not post the result here because it contains a truly hideous image, but you can join yourself and verify it if you want. Personally I doubt the detection software's that good.

Edit: When the image is drag and dropped it comes back "Human". When you post the URL it comes back "AI" I think the site is bollox.

 

[JagUTD]

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From the look of the replies, the software used seems to be easily manipulated.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Despite me putting nothing past that little shit I don't think the picture in question has been demonstrated fake at all. The AI detector that keeps being mentioned is free to the public (aiornot.com). When I used it the image came back verified "human." I'll not post the result here because it contains a truly hideous image, but you can join yourself and verify it if you want. Personally I doubt the detection software's that good.

Yeah, I keep seeing people saying the AI thing throws up other results.

Well, AI generated images would be preferable

 

[owlo]

That's cathechism. It's a game of Orwellian semantics. It's a gas attack.

Regardless, it’s legal and not a war crime. (Calling WP a “gas attack” is stretching it)

I can't believe someone is justifying the use of chemical weapons on a trapped civilian population because they're fired from a different type of weapon.

Nobody is justifying anything. (Though if you’re more worried about white phosphorus than actual bombs then it’s wrong)

 

[Superden]

I just can't understand how people can be horrified by images of one set of.babies being butchered, but then shrug their shoulders at others because they happen to be in gaza.

I clicked on the telepgraph tweet and the twisted feckers at the telegraph are using the images as key part of a marketing drive.

 

[Superden]

Regardless, it’s legal and not a war crime. (Calling WP a “gas attack” is stretching it)



Nobody is justifying anything. (Though if you’re more worried about white phosphorus than actual bombs then it’s wrong)

Your digging yourself a bigger hole.

 

[owlo]

Your digging yourself a bigger hole.

By saying something that isn’t a war crime, isn’t a war crime?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Yeah, I keep seeing people saying the AI thing throws up other results.

Well, AI generated images would be preferable

Yeah I just edited. It throws up a different result if you post the url to if you drag/drop. Just nonsense.

 

[JagUTD]

I can't believe someone is justifying the use of chemical weapons on a trapped civilian population because they're fired from a different type of weapon.

That seems unfair tbh. It's an argument over the semantics as to the legality rather than justification.

It is however not correct that it is a chemical weapon, at least legally speaking.

Regardless, it's use in any offensive situation is difficult to justify.

 

[Badunk]

From Wikipedia

Despite the danger, for 2022 the Chemical Weapons Convention did not classify phosphorus bombs as such. Non-governmental international organizations have recorded their use during military conflicts in Syria, Afghanistan, the Gaza Strip, and other war zones. However, the use of phosphorus bombs near populated areas or civilians is still a war crime, as humanitarian law requires military attacks to be selective. The command is obliged to distinguish between civilians and soldiers, as well as civilian and military objects, which is impossible when using such projectiles in populated areas.

 

[Kaos]

From Wikipedia

Despite the danger, for 2022 the Chemical Weapons Convention did not classify phosphorus bombs as such. Non-governmental international organizations have recorded their use during military conflicts in Syria, Afghanistan, the Gaza Strip, and other war zones. However, the use of phosphorus bombs near populated areas or civilians is still a war crime, as humanitarian law requires military attacks to be selective. The command is obliged to distinguish between civilians and soldiers, as well as civilian and military objects, which is impossible when using such projectiles in populated areas.

Even if no such protocol existed, its disgustingly shameful to not be outraged at their use on dense civilian areas.

 

[africanspur]

Egyptian ministry of foreign affairs asking for aid to be sent to them to Al arish so they can pass it on to the Palestinians.

Also asking the Israelis to stop bombing the Palestinian side of the Rafah crossing so they can get supplies across.

 

[Badunk]

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[NicolaSacco]

By saying something that isn’t a war crime, isn’t a war crime?

This is definitely going to come across as patronising, (and it probably is tbh), but if anyone on here needed to take a step back for a bit it's you. 450 posts in 5 days is one every 15 minutes, and that's without sleeping. I read your posts with interest at first, you seemed interested to learn and discuss. But you're getting really obsessive and dogmatic, and I think you know it. I'm sure you'll tell me to fcuk off, hell I'd probably tell me to fcuk off, but I think it's worth saying. Take a time out!

 

[Badunk]

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[neverdie]

Regardless, it’s legal and not a war crime. (Calling WP a “gas attack” is stretching it)



Nobody is justifying anything. (Though if you’re more worried about white phosphorus than actual bombs then it’s wrong)

It's a chemical, gas-based, weapon, the use of which against civillians is a warcrime.

It was the Syrian red-line (remember the Obama regime?). He walked it back, because it wasn't verified, and didn't want to get drawn in, but there's no pretending now, because Israel uses it, that it is anything other than that (Americans have used it, as have Russians). It is a warcrime, used against civillians, and it almost always is (in Gaza, how could it not be?).

 

[Ekkie Thump]

This is from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I dunno what to say about it really. Just made me feel very, very weird.

.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

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Do they know if they killed any hamas targets? Or are the just dropping bombs and hoping for the best? Their best being they get to occupy the entire gaza strip

 

[adexkola]

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[Red in STL]

Your digging yourself a bigger hole.

Not totally, I had no idea so I googled it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions - it's a bit murky in regard to what is considered legal and illegal

 

[adexkola]

Not totally, I had no idea so I googled it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions - it's a bit murky in regard to what is considered legal and illegal

However, the use of phosphorus bombs near populated areas or civilians is still a war crime, as humanitarian law requires military attacks to be selective. The command is obliged to distinguish between civilians and soldiers, as well as civilian and military objects, which is impossible when using such projectiles in populated areas.

There is nothing murky about this for fecks sake, there would not be these shitty attempts to play lawyer if Russia fired white phosphorus over Kyiv

 

[Sky1981]

Back to back with Ukraine the west has shown their true colors. Good luck being the middle man in the future. The US are sending munitions, carriers to prevent help coming and practically watching as Israel pounding the helpless Gazans.

This is the oldest tactics of burning the village to oust the rats. Sure it's effective, but let's not pretend it's not a war crime.

 

[Sky1981]

Do they know if they killed any hamas targets? Or are the just dropping bombs and hoping for the best? Their best being they get to occupy the entire gaza strip

That depends on what is their objectives?

1. Minimized casualty?
2. Setting an example?
3. Punishing Gazans indirectly?

Depending on the objectives what's effective and what's not could very much differ

 

[Sir Matt]

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So it looks like the ground offensive is imminent.

 

[groovyalbert]

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So it looks like the ground offensive is imminent.

That's likely over a million people needing to move south in the next 24 hours. Horrific situation.

 

[Raoul]

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So it looks like the ground offensive is imminent.

The Israelis are incentivized to start the ground war sooner rather than later so its going to get pretty grim in the next few days given the power and water outages. Hospitals won't be able to deal with the wounded. A massive humanitarian catastrophe.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Would this lead to a World War? On the East things are in tension regarding China and Taiwan. Russia and Ukraine are also at war. And that’s not mentioning the whole mess in the Middle East.

 

[Sir Matt]

The Israelis are incentivized to start the ground war sooner rather than later so its going to get pretty grim in the next few days given the power and water outages. Hospitals won't be able to deal with the wounded. A massive humanitarian catastrophe.

It's going to be horrific. I expect it will be incredibly bloody for the Israelis as well, but the civilians in Gaza face an unthinkable disaster.

 

[RedDevil@84]

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So it looks like the ground offensive is imminent.

Or they are gonna just bomb the entire area.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Or they are gonna just bomb the entire area.

What are they bombing if they're telling people to leave? The people they're looking for are all long gone.

 

[calodo2003]

Basically impossible to get one's head around...

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[calodo2003]

Doubt it, they'll just pound everything from the skies first and the soldiers will follow. Doubt the Israeli army loses many people.

They'll have to get into the tunnels to affect any kind of losses to Hamas. They will lose more than a few engineers & specially trained special forces 'tunnel rat' operators.

 

[Beans]

Oh trust me, I had many more questions. Frankly speaking, it was a lot of waffling and hot air, with little substance and moral backbone at the end. I was just trying to be nice (not that he saw my reply).

Fence sitting word smiths are annoying

Considering he started out giving an overview of the history of the conflict going all the way back into the begins of history, your question makes me think you didn't even read it.

If you have a good question go for it.