So why are you hoping that Corbyn runs as an independent?
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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People want Corbyn to run as leader of a new independent party?
What would that achieve ?
What would that achieve ?
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I can understand the disillusionment and I'm sure most can in this thread at least.
I haven't got round to registering for an overseas vote now since moving two years ago.
I probably will and vote for Andy Slaughter, who's a very good local MP, who can vote for as an individual happily. His majority is big so can't see him losing whatever.
Hopefully prevent Rachel Reeves from living out her dream of being tougher than the Tories on welfare and not wanting to be seen to represent anyone in receipt of benefits.
Most muslims I've met have sworn never to vote Labour again. As far as many see it, starmer had a choice and he's chosen to support wholeheartedly the muslim killing fascists. There's also the sense that even though there's a far bigger muslim constituency within labour, there isn't anywhere like the blowback from within that corbyn was on the end of to support / protect jewish / Israeli interests. Many of the senior voices in the Labour Party who were very loud, to the point of campaiging against labour not that long ago, on stopping hatred have gone very quiet and when it comes to muslim victims and Islamaphobia.
Stopping anyone from attending the palestine marches whilst senior MPs are attending israeli events was the last straw for many.
Stopping anyone from attending the palestine marches whilst senior MPs are attending israeli events was the last straw for many.
I cannot see how he can’t do the simple thing and just call for a ceasefire. It’s absolutely fecking mental and just plain thick. And this crackdown on anyone supporting Palestine is a disgrace.
With the failure of new parties recently, I would be surprised if he got off the ground however I expect Corbyn to have a good chance of winning as an independent. Even if a party does form, I doubt it would be anytime but a minor party.
he seems to be terrified of the right wing press. which is cowardly, considering they will come after him anyway, its not like they are driven by principle.
Yeah pretty much. He's desperately trying to reverse the antisemitism accusations by tripling down on his support for Israel to the extent he'd bless their quasi-genocidal approach to this conflict. A few million pissed off Muslims (and thousands of dead ones) is a palatable price to pay for him.
It’s pathetic. They’ve done enough to show they are overcoming anti semitism in the party so it shouldn’t be associated with decisions on this. I’m fecking sick of bending over to the right wing press and voters, they are a fecking thick bunch. The fact we are against so much of the international community as well is embarrassing.
A million dead Iraqis? This NBC article says 200K.
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/iraq-war-numbers-rcna75762
Directly yes, the number is much higher when you factor the violence and instability that has been opened up as a result of this illegal war.
Would 200k been more palatable for you?
What is your source?
It's not about "palatable". It's about ensuring that the numbers we use have at least some degree of sourcing instead of being thrown around.
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...a-million-iraqis-survey-idUSL3048857920080130
ORB international research survey.
If I'm being fair though it has been widely criticised in its methodology: https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/beyond/exaggerated-orb/
But the fact as to whether we're debating 200k, 300k or higher is a little bleak. The original point is its ludicrous to discount a politician's foreign policy when its led to a huge amount of carnage and suffering.
Isn’t Islington a Labour seat?
The original point obviously stands, no question. But I dislike when popular narratives that don't have conclusive evidence aren't receiving pushback.
The Iraq war was likely launched with deceit, lies, fabrications, you name it. Let's at least try to be as honest as possible about its aftermath.
Fair enough.
It doesn't. It says they questioned him on his statements. He says he took questions The phone call with the imam doesn't say anything relevant. They found out about Keir Starmer visiting shortly beforehand. For some reason they didn't realise that photos being taken could potentially be publicised? Did they think he wanted a memento of the visit?
What exactly did Keir Starmer misrepresent in his tweets? What view did he attribute to members of the mosque that constitutes misrepresentation? Did no one present know who he was or have any idea of comments he made?
They may well regret the reaction that has come from the visit, but that doesn't constitute misrepresentation.
It seems that you have many questions they could easily be answered by reading Starmers tweet. Have you not read Starmers original tweet regarding this visit?
Well it turns out the Greens are the only major party in England to call for a ceasefire, so I will be voting for them. I'm pretty pro-environment anyway so naturally would align with some of their policies, will need to sit down and go through rest of their policies.
My local seat however is a safe labour seat, so my vote won't really have any weight.
I’m genuinely surprised you’re struggling to see the disconnect between what Keir said and the mosque statement.
Here’s what keir said:
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Compare this with the last two paragraphs of the mosque statement. There’s no alignment on their respective positions.
That’s good to know about the Greens. I wasn’t aware they had publicly called for one but assumed they had.
Same here. I might be incredibly naive, but perhaps parties will start to notice the amounts of extra votes they could be picking up if they adopted some serious green policies. Although they took the exact opposite lesson from Uxbridge, where the green votes actually would have it won it for Labour.
Keir Starmer:
"I was questioned by members and I was deeply moved to hear their pain and horror at the suffering of civilians in Gaza."
Mosque:
"There was a robust and frank conversation which reflected the sentiments Muslim communities are feeling at this time. Members of the community directly challenged Keir on his statements made on the Israeli Government's right to cut food, electricity and water to Gaza, warranting warcrimes as well as his failure to call for an immediate ceasefire.We recognise that while our intention was to raise the issue of suffering of Palestinians, regrettably the outcome has put the South Wales Islamic Centre and the wider Muslim community intodisrepute.We express our dismay at Keir Starmer's social media post which stated "I was grateful to hear from the Muslim community of the South Wales Islamic Centre.
I repeated our calls for all hostages to be released, more humanitarian aid to enter Gaza, for the water andpower to be switched back on, and a renewed focus on the two state solution."
OK, I'm clearly missing something here - where has Keir Starmer attributed or ascribed something to members of the mosque? Has he said they agreed with him? Him being grateful to hear their views is not a misrepresentation. Him stating his position is not a misrepresentation. He has said he was moved to hear their stories, but that is the impact it has had on him.
To stop this going round and about would it just be possible to say what he has misrepresented? Just the specific parts that constitute that.
Labour loses Oxford council majority after ninth Gaza resignation
Labour has lost its majority of Oxford City Council after a ninth councillor resigned from the party.
Councillor Barbara Coyne is the latest to leave in protest against Labour's stance on the war in Gaza.
The Headington Hill & Northway councillor's exit means Labour is now left with 23 elected representatives, with 25 in opposition.
The eight who have previously stepped down say Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer needs to call for a ceasefire.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-67231473
Labour has lost its majority of Oxford City Council after a ninth councillor resigned from the party.
Councillor Barbara Coyne is the latest to leave in protest against Labour's stance on the war in Gaza.
The Headington Hill & Northway councillor's exit means Labour is now left with 23 elected representatives, with 25 in opposition.
The eight who have previously stepped down say Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer needs to call for a ceasefire.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-67231473
That's fine, I live in a safe labour seat too but will still vote against. Even if they win the seat the lower margin should cause some concern.
Yes. So why are you hoping Corbyn runs as an indie?
So he could win the Islington seat.
To what end? You don't live there and every seat Labour doesn't win is a Tory chance.
There’s a significant African and Arab population in that area so there is a chance, however small, that he could win the seat. As I said before - the Palestine conflict was probably the one issue, more than any other, that united the UK Muslim population with Labour. Keir’s effectively ostracised that vote.
There’s a lot of Muslims that will probably abstain from voting (something I disagree with) but in Jezza’s case, if he’s running in that constituency, I hope he wins it.
Also people are allowed to want certain MPs to win seats that they can’t vote in - it’s normal.
Or he could split the Labour vote and the Tories get in.
Labour has averaged 63% of the vote there since 2010. The conservatives have averaged 13%. No one's sneaking in over a split vote there.
If Corbyn stands, he wins.
It is not a labour seat, its a Corbyn seat. I've seen him walking down the streets of that place, just going about his business. People stop him and shake his hand. Its like how Bono imagines he would be greeted by the public.
Because above all else, hes been a brilliant local MP for 40 years.
Also if Corbyn wins as an independent, there is zero chance he would vote in Parliament in a way to help the Tories.
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Tory MP Bristow also sacked after calling for a ceasefire.
At least that makes sense on one level in that he was a Government Minister not following collective responsibility. He is still a Tory MP.
I guess the Labour Party policy doesn't support Israelis and Palestinians living in peace?