Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager | Staying

[Fortitude]

I only heard that he said he wants United to be the best transition team in the world. Which was a bit worrying but you could still give him the benefit of the doubt as you can be great in both transition and possession. But that statement is revealing I think and means that it is not going to get better under him.

This is mostly why the comment was overlooked. I'd even argue you can't be one without the other because you rest and recover in possession, and if you don't, it's guaranteed burnout, if not during the game itself, then accumulatively, and most definitely by the run-in.

I've voiced concerns about his midfield construction since preseason, and it's depressing to think he's actively deconstructed any semblance of a midfield on purpose.

 

[red_de_pologne]

He has three games. Fulham, FC Copenhagen and Luton will define the rest of the season for ETH. I do worry, because I am not sure we will win any, not sure the players have the fight for it. Other teams, fans, can all see what the mood is.

He won't turn around anything if the players give up, but to me it looks like some of them are still behind him, he should focus on them, and luckily this is a favourable set of games on paper

 

[Vidooq]

With the way he is having hit and miss transfers, he will need to be able to do 15+ transfer to have his own team of performers. Antony and Mount, they might come good, especially the second, but he needs players that will hit the ground running for him right now, and players he can rely on, availability wise.

Casemiro, Eriksen, Varane are becoming/are, too injury prone. And he needs these players to get him out of jail at the moment. His first choice left back has missed 75 games over the last 4 seasons, and counting. He had to bring a more reliant back up for Shaw. I like Malacia, but he cost us against Seville, and his availability is a question mark. The level also drops massively when he plays.

The feck up with Martinez injury is really hurting us in a lot of ways. He is able to play passes between lines, unlike all the other CB who prefer to lump it over to the winger.

Anyhow, the football must improve if he wants to have a chance of doing those extra transfers, and completing his own team.

 

[Dans]

I'm losing any faith I might have had in him actually - his signings are mental - Onana (not good enough), Antony (not good enough) and Mount (to play where exactly?) for 200m is the sign of negligence.

 

[FrankWhite]

Skysports are really going to town on this United crisis thing. It was their homepage's main headline for all of yesterday, and now it's their Prem preview's main topic. Talk about monetizing the misery.
Ten Hag hasn't done himself any favours but it's clear the media never liked him from day one and now the push is on to pile pressure and get rid.

 

[Lay]

Skysports are really going to town on this United crisis thing. It was their homepage's main headline for all of yesterday, and now it's their Prem preview's main topic. Talk about monetizing the misery.
Ten Hag hasn't done himself any favours but it's clear the media never liked him from day one and now the push is on to pile pressure and get rid.

United being shit is a dream for broadcasters. Talksport might as well relocate to Manchester and sit outside Old Trafford

 

[Zen86]

United being shit is a dream for broadcasters. Talksport might as well relocate to Manchester and sit outside Old Trafford

I don’t think people actually care all that much now, that horse has been well and truly flogged. It’s just that there’s nothing else for Sky to talk about.

 

[pocco]

So we've gone from "it's not Ten Hags fault, it's the Glazers", then to Murtough, and now it's the assistant managers fault. Ten Hag is one unlucky guy.

 

[The Urban Goose]

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The players can smell blood then.

Feck the lot of them. How many times do we have to go through this "the players turn on [insert current manager]" nonsense? Sell them all and start again.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

After his recent statement on his new playstyle at United, I'd want him gone inmediately if I were a United supporter. I mean, what the feck?

The statement in full, with context, is nothing shocking at all and makes sense in his approach to not come in and try to Ajaxify the club.

 

[crossy1686]

If anyone’s interested, an interesting insight as to what’s going on.

 

[Smithy89]

Man went to Ajax/Barca/Inter wanting all his former players from FDJ to Timber to Antony to Kudus to Onana to Martinez and then turns around and says i won't play my Ajax football here

Over 80m for Antony, worst signing we have ever made.

 

[crossy1686]

The players can smell blood then.

Feck the lot of them. How many times do we have to go through this "the players turn on [insert current manager]" nonsense? Sell them all and start again.

Behave, those quotes were taken ages ago and the media have been sitting on them and waiting for this moment to release them. There will be loads more between now and him being sacked.

The fact of the matter is that it’s his job to manage these players and for whatever reason his methods aren’t working, but it doesn’t help when you’ve got the charisma of a plank of wood who calls out your players for being shit at every opportunity. There’s no reason these lads should play for him, he’s not coached them properly since April and seems more intent on moving them all on instead of teaching them stuff.

If everyone on the staff turns against you then it’s on you for misreading the room.

 

[crossy1686]

The statement in full, with context, is nothing shocking at all and makes sense in his approach to not come in and try to Ajaxify the club.

If anything it’s confirmation he’s out of his depth. No top manager comes in and adapts their philosophy and play style they’re been hired for to suit a historic style of play that was relevant 20+ years ago, and if there was a case where you agreed to that as the United manager, you wouldn’t then go and sign players who play best within that system only to make them transition players.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

If anything it’s confirmation he’s out of his depth. No top manager comes in and adapts their philosophy and play style they’re been hired for to suit a historic style of play that was relevant 20+ years ago, and if there was a case where you agreed to that as the United manager, you wouldn’t then go and sign players who play best within that system only to make them transition players.

That is an incredibly subjective conclusion to reach from those words, which I strongly disagree with. But you're entitled to your opinion, of course.

 

[Mickeza]

The Athletic article today really paints a manager in trouble who may have lost the dressing room. Always amuses me when people bang on about play style and tactics and all this shite when it is a very small percentage of how to win games. Managing players, building a team first culture and keeping them believing in what you’re doing is how you compete and win games - and it seems he may be close to losing a few. Not helped by the club as usual - when you make it obvious you don’t want Maguire - he needs to be sold. Ditto Mctominay, DVB, Sancho and whoever else was on his out list. ETH wants to be ruthless but he’s at a club that does not operate in that way.

 

[erikcred]

That is an incredibly subjective conclusion to reach from those words, which I strongly disagree with. But you're entitled to your opinion, of course.

His focus on signing players with Ajax history does not look good. He's giving the Mourinho-Matic love story a run for its money.

 

[crossy1686]

The Athletic article today really paints a manager in trouble who may have lost the dressing room. Always amuses me when people bang on about play style and tactics and all this shite when it is a very small percentage of how to win games. Managing players, building a team first culture and keeping them believing in what you’re doing is how you compete and win games - and it seems he may be close to losing a few. Not helped by the club as usual - when you make it obvious you don’t want Maguire - he needs to be sold. Ditto Mctominay, DVB, Sancho and whoever else was on his out list. ETH wants to be ruthless but he’s at a club that does not operate in that way.

I agree.

There obvious issues with the team, there’s players like McTomminay and Maguire who should have been sold, but they’ve not been and that’s on the club. As the manager you can’t treat them like shit because you don’t rate them though, they might be well liked within the squad, and even their biggest critics in the squad will be concerned about their treatment if it’s obviously unfair.

Then you’ve got reports that he’s not giving them enough breaks, not training technical aspects and just making them do hard running sessions instead etc. it sounds like a boot camp for dogs you don’t like.

You can’t just keep punishing people for not living up to certain standards, at some point you have to teach them how to meet your standards also. I don’t know why all our managers are under the impression they can just sell the whole team and replace them like we have oil money. These managers wouldn’t attempt half of this shit at a club with a lesser stature.

 

[Jacko21]

At the time of Arteta's really bad period in late 2020, he'd barely spent anything. A few loans in the January window and a combined £81.5m on six players in the summer, with Partey and Gabriel being among them. Or slightly less than an Antony for the lot. He then spent nothing in the next January window either, meaning his total spend in his first three transfer windows was that £81.5m. Ten Hag has spent around £400m remodelling the squad in his image during his first three transfer windows.

Comparing the two is absurd. I'd imagine Edu might have been feeling a wee bit less charitable had Arsenal spent that kind of money before going on a months-long streak of bad results.

I didn’t compare the two. But your additional context is helpful too.

 

[Mickeza]

I agree.

There obvious issues with the team, there’s players like McTomminay and Maguire who should have been sold, but they’ve not been and that’s on the club. As the manager you can’t treat them like shit because you don’t rate them though, they might be well liked within the squad, and even their biggest critics in the squad will be concerned about their treatment if it’s obviously unfair.

Then you’ve got reports that he’s not giving them enough breaks, not training technical aspects and just making them do hard running sessions instead etc. it sounds like a boot camp for dogs you don’t like.

You can’t just keep punishing people for not living up to certain standards, at some point you have to teach them how to meet your standards also. I don’t know why all our managers are under the impression they can just sell the whole team and replace them like we have oil money. These managers wouldn’t attempt half of this shit at a club with a lesser stature.

Ronaldo, De Gea and Sancho have all been dealt with ruthlessly but when doing so you have to get the whole team along with you. They are huge names. The De Gea situation was handled abysmally - withdrawing a contract offer and halving it is just not cricket - and despite him not being up to it was a truly shocking way to treat him. He was very popular. Whilst I completely sided with ETH over sancho I’ve never known a situation like it with that high profile of player. It’s absurd. Maybe Tevez fecking off abroard mid-season? Add in Maguire on top, all the external noise, the injuries which as you say the squad think is down to overtraining and you have some fairly big issues here.

 

[Ayoba]

If anyone’s interested, an interesting insight as to what’s going on.

That was a grim listen. Just reinforces my belief that Ten Hag doesnt know how to fix this mess.

 

[Fortitude]

There was a bit of nuance to it, what he essentially meant was he couldn’t make United play like Ajax because United are United, but also because of the players…

Reports are that he’s concerned about being compared to LVG who came here and tried to do that and we all got super bored and frustrated with that football right away, but the reality is that by not trying to implement a style he knows and can do, he’s becoming more van gaal like by the day.

There’s also reports that United haven’t really done any technical training since April last year due to injuries. So most of the training now consists of hard running and man to man marking, which is why the players aren’t improving. What you would expect from a coach like him is coaching an organised press, pressing angles, zonal positions etc. but we’re doing none of that and it’s showing.

That can't be right.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

At the time of Arteta's really bad period in late 2020, he'd barely spent anything. A few loans in the January window and a combined £81.5m on six players in the summer, with Partey and Gabriel being among them. Or slightly less than an Antony for the lot. He then spent nothing in the next January window either, meaning his total spend in his first three transfer windows was that £81.5m. Ten Hag has spent around £400m remodelling the squad in his image during his first three transfer windows.

Comparing the two is absurd. I'd imagine Edu might have been feeling a wee bit less charitable had Arsenal spent that kind of money before going on a months-long streak of bad results.

Yes true, but you also have to see how the money has been spent. The sporting structure at Arsenal seems to now be fully functional after a few years in La La Land, which is really much more important than transfer fees with no context.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

That was a grim listen. Just reinforces my belief that Ten Hag doesnt know how to fix this mess.

The key point they make, which most people know, is that the issues at the club run deep and definitely go beyond a single manager. Ten Hag is currently becoming a lightning rod for fans' dissatisfaction, but it's wholly unfair on him (though he of course has a share of the responsibility in some of the results). The club is in a systemic mess, and firing him would just lead to a rinse/repeat cycle that I'm personally a little bit fed up with.

 

[Laurencio]

Yes true, but you also have to see how the money has been spent. The sporting structure at Arsenal seems to now be fully functional after a few years in La La Land, which is really much more important than transfer fees with no context.

We have spent 400M on players worth 120M - in a period of time where 20 good to elite level players, suitable for posession based style, have moved on free to other clubs. The first priority for Ratcliffe has to be to get that sorted.

 

[Luffy]

United currently is a cursed hydra. One manager's head is struck off to appease the fans, and two United players gain in power.

 

[crossy1686]

That can't be right.

I wish it was but the reports are that due to injuries they’re just working on conditioning and all the technical stuff will be fixed later when players come back from injury. An example is the fact we’re going man to man marking in the midfield during games because Ten Hag thinks there’s too many other issues to coach a proper midfield zonal marking system that benefits a high press. This is one of the reasons our midfield are so easy to bypass.

 

[Fortitude]

I wish it was but the reports are that due to injuries they’re just working on conditioning and all the technical stuff will be fixed later when players come back from injury. An example is the fact we’re going man to man marking in the midfield during games because Ten Hag things there’s too many other issues to coach a proper midfield zonal marking system that benefits a high press. This is one of the reasons our midfield are so easy to bypass.

That's unacceptable. That must be unprecedented.

 

[Sarni]

We have spent 400M on players worth 120M - in a period of time where 20 good to elite level players, suitable for posession based style, have moved on free to other clubs. The first priority for Ratcliffe has to be to get that sorted.

Our complete inability to pick up bargains has been concerning for a long time. It's as if we have this unshakeable urge to sign expensive players, not just to improve the first team but even to fill out the squad with rotation players.

Virtually every club is able to pick up cheap / free players to fill their rosters while we spend £50m+ on players with a mere back up role already in mind.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

We have spent 400M on players worth 120M - in a period of time where 20 good to elite level players, suitable for posession based style, have moved on free to other clubs. The first priority for Ratcliffe has to be to get that sorted.

I entirely agree with this.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

That's unacceptable. That must be unprecedented.

That's not really what the podcast says, it's more nuanced. It's grim overall, but somewhat due to circumstances and pressing needs. Give it a listen.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Our complete inability to pick up bargains has been concerning for a long time. It's as if we have this unshakeable urge to sign expensive players, not just to improve the first team but even to fill out the squad with rotation players.

Virtually every club is able to pick up cheap / free players to fill their rosters while we spend £50m+ on players with a mere back up role already in mind.

One journo called this out, said we make easy signings difficult and cant do the challenging ones or find nuggets. Signing Casimero when he was already being benched for £60m and legs going, signing Mount for £50m with one year left, paying £40m for Onana when we left on a free the previous summer and cheaper/ better alternatives in market. Then we dont even seem to try for a McAllister or Rice or Kane. Our signing is absolutely atrocious and I guarantee if Ratcliffe gets control of football then Arnold and Murtough are straight out the door, most of recruitment team as well I imagine.

 

[Adisa]

These players are a disease.

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[Rooney in Paris]

One journo called this out, said we make easy signings difficult and cant do the challenging ones or find nuggets. Signing Casimero when he was already being benched for £60m and legs going, signing Mount for £50m with one year left, paying £40m for Onana when we left on a free the previous summer and cheaper/ better alternatives in market. Then we dont even seem to try for a McAllister or Rice or Kane. Our signing is absolutely atrocious and I guarantee if Ratcliffe gets control of football then Arnold and Murtough are straight out the door, most of recruitment team as well I imagine.

Our sporting structure is terrible, but none of the examples you've given is a particularly good example. The Antony debacle, or the Maguire transfer saga, are much stronger cases for it.

 

[Fortitude]

That's not really what the podcast says, it's more nuanced. It's grim overall, but somewhat due to circumstances and pressing needs. Give it a listen.

Will do. Cheers.

 

[Heinzesight]

I have to say, I'm in agreement with Goldbridge & Sam at United People that sacking wont help matters & we would undoubtedly suffer in the immediate aftermath.

Look, I've heard from a few usually reliable sources now that a bigger problem than ETH is actually STEVE MCCLAREN, hes created a toxic environment on the training ground & is something of an arsonist in that no sooner has Ten Hag stepped in to solve whatever problem exists between McClaren & a player, McClaren is off creating problems with another player & his ego is such he wont have his authority questioned. Alot of the players cant understand why Ten Hag has stuck with him especially as many people in the dressing room are aware that it is McClaren who is leaking the stories to the press - again causing trouble for the players who are under suspicion but completely innocent. Its really REALLY two faced & nasty of McClaren to go about things that way but the general consensus is that McClaren actually thinks he has a chance to replace Ten Hag one day, so much so that he is prepared to push the manager who brought him back to the club under a bus. McClaren needs to be gone & a new coach employed.

I repeat guys, its McClaren who is leaking stories to the press. Scumbag.

You’d think with McClaren being Dutch he would have more loyalty to Ten Hag.

 

[SER19]

Exactly. Halfway last season, around the Barcelona games, Ten Hag was really getting somewhere with United, and individual players. And he got there through his own doing: he wasn't inheriting Ole's tactics and trying to hang on to them. But somehow, things went downhill from there, and now especially this season.

It doesn't make sense that Ten Hag both was responsible for that uphill trajectory and is also an idiot who knows nothing about tactics and player development. But United's squad is arguably stronger right now, and Ten Hag if anything should know it better, and the PL as well.

So what changed? I would argue that the principal issue is that Ten Hag is having to adjust to playing a second-string defence of players that don't fit proactive high-line defending, therefore had to adjust his approach - and in the process messes up all aspects of his intended defensive and attacking play and patterns.

That's obviously on Ten Hag. Well, he can't help that United's squad is still so disjointed in its depth, that's due to United flipflopping on style for a decade now. But he probably could have managed the current situation better from a tactical viewpoint. That's not a reason to fire him though. I would say that he needs to be given time to train and play games with his intended first team. If things still suck then, then yes, time to go. But sacking Ten Hag because he isn't handling an absurd injury crisis well with this disjointed squad doesn't sound sensible to me.

I think this is all that needs to be said on the entire situation for now

 

[redcucumber]

The key point they make, which most people know, is that the issues at the club run deep and definitely go beyond a single manager. Ten Hag is currently becoming a lightning rod for fans' dissatisfaction, but it's wholly unfair on him (though he of course has a share of the responsibility in some of the results). The club is in a systemic mess, and firing him would just lead to a rinse/repeat cycle that I'm personally a little bit fed up with.

Well said.

 

[Laurencio]

These players are a disease.

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I don't buy it. We know there are disgruntled players who will see more football and a chance to reinvigorate their careers if he leaves. They will want to take advantage of the situation. Figure out who is leaking this and sell em.

 

[redcucumber]

Exactly. Halfway last season, around the Barcelona games, Ten Hag was really getting somewhere with United, and individual players. And he got there through his own doing: he wasn't inheriting Ole's tactics and trying to hang on to them. But somehow, things went downhill from there, and now especially this season.

It doesn't make sense that Ten Hag both was responsible for that uphill trajectory and is also an idiot who knows nothing about tactics and player development. But United's squad is arguably stronger right now, and Ten Hag if anything should know it better, and the PL as well.

So what changed? I would argue that the principal issue is that Ten Hag is having to adjust to playing a second-string defence of players that don't fit proactive high-line defending, therefore had to adjust his approach - and in the process messes up all aspects of his intended defensive and attacking play and patterns.

That's obviously on Ten Hag. Well, he can't help that United's squad is still so disjointed in its depth, that's due to United flipflopping on style for a decade now. But he probably could have managed the current situation better from a tactical viewpoint. That's not a reason to fire him though. I would say that he needs to be given time to train and play games with his intended first team. If things still suck then, then yes, time to go. But sacking Ten Hag because he isn't handling an absurd injury crisis well with this disjointed squad doesn't sound sensible to me.

Also very well said!