Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager / awaiting clarity from the club over his position

[Moriarty]

Just fyi for future reference using that term like that means that SAF was a terrible manager.

 

[El Jefe]

Casemiro and Varane may not be the answers but they are more so than Ten Hag. It almost feels like these two are getting scapegoated lately but didn’t our last match have three of his key signings the bench, Antony, Mount and Amrabat. Now his trusted players are the ones he wanted to bin off in Maguire and Mctominay.

All this looks like to me is a manager who has completely lost track of his plan and is trying to get quick fixes which is completely unreliable going forward.

I remember the days when LVG went through a similar process of giving minutes to every crap player he could find in the academy. In the short term it all looks good but when we were going out of the CL in the group stage against Wolfsburg I think and he played all the kids it became cleared he was just throwing shit at the wall hoping it sticks. We are going through the same thing with EtH it’s just not as radical as what LVG did.

 

[el3mel]

Not saying he will, I am saying I don't know and you don't know. The manager should always be ahead of the players and get our support over players. The club matters, the managers authority over players matter, players in terms of disputes or fallouts do not matter club first always.

Why so ? Unless this manager is proven for you, or brought you actual success, you shouldn't take sides blindly based on nothing. Better to evaluate the situation on even basis and see whose side will be of more value to the club.

 

[Redstain]

Not saying he will, I am saying I don't know and you don't know. The manager should always be ahead of the players and get our support over players. The club matters, the managers authority over players matter, players in terms of disputes or fallouts do not matter club first always.

I disagree with this especially when the manager is establishing himself just as much as these players. Its only viable to back a manager in this type of regard when the said individual has credibility on a very high level (given the size of the club).

I think Varane is on the tail end of his career so a bust-up between the two is permissable but then consider what does this do to the morale of the team ? Ronaldo has spoken publicly about his unrest, Sancho to add and just like any employment when a team member is mistreated or dealt with harshly by leadership the entire teams conduct towards that individual can change, so in isolating one you can alienate many. I cannot say if it's right or wrong but players like anyone else are people, they will have an affinity to their peers.

Erik doesn't seem to have a personality that registers with a few players but regardless of these issues he has to prove that the judgements being made resonate with success on the pitch. All of these changes and then the team encounters back to back poor results especially throughout December and the perspective will sour very quickly. The manager has to justify these decisions with showing viable improvement.

 

[kkj25]

Why so ? Unless this manager is proven for you, or brought you actual success, you shouldn't take sides blindly based on nothing. Better to evaluate the situation on even basis and see whose side will be of more value to the club.

Because you cannot run an enterprise that way, One person i:e the manager needs to have absolute authority otherwise you get all the shit with player power and such, the boss is the boss and within reason what he says goes. It does not matter what the boss of anything has accomplished or not it is detrimental to have subordinates questioning his authority. The only situation where in any enterprise it would be acceptable is if the subordinates were experienced and the boss was not.
In simple terms if an employee knows more than the boss which players by definition do not since they have never managed.

 

[Redstain]

Because you cannot run an enterprise that way, One person i:e the manager needs to have absolute authority otherwise you get all the shit with player power and such, the boss is the boss and within reason what he says goes. It does not matter what the boss of anything has accomplished or not it is detrimental to have subordinates questioning his authority. The only situation where in any enterprise it would be acceptable is if the subordinates were experienced and the boss was not.
In simple terms if an employee knows more than the boss which players by definition do not since they have never managed.

But what type of work atmosphere are you describing ? Because it sounds like one which in some ways is definitive of what we are seeing this season instability. What your saying is the type of leadership in a larger scale company where everyone is essentially a payroll number and easily dispensable if needing to be replaced, idealisms that were cultivated in the expanse of the industrial age.

In tighter knit teams especially in markets that are more lucrative and where employees have a higher skill sets in tandem to their roles you cannot run a business with an iron fist. It doesn't mean you absolve discipline in the workplace but you find equilibrium.

Look at many of the former United players responses to Sir Alex Ferguson's management, you hear on one side the regulation, standards, diligence than on the other side endearment, unison, leadership. Any real leader will tell you that the greatest aspect of leadership with a model that's sustainable is built on humility. Leaders create leaders, that's why so many players under SAF were exemplary.

 

[Revaulx]

If you can't see why this is a very silly fight to take in the middle of the season when we're playing badly and threadbare with injury then I don't know what to say. Take the fight in the summer if you really want to, don't put yourself in a position where you're falling out with players in the middle of the season because of one game. He's picking fights for no reason and then people are making excuses for him, "We've got to play Evans because Varane's a baby" etc. That might be true, but keep your mouth shut until the end of the season and deal with it then.

How has he picked a “silly fight” with Varane?

Unless you believe players who’ve performed well in the past should never be dropped in case it upsets them.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

How has he picked a “silly fight” with Varane?

Unless you believe players who’ve performed well in the past should never be dropped in case it upsets them.

I mean it’s been shown that he doesn’t drop certain underperforming players in general.

His man management clearly sucks for a top club. Varane hasn’t had an issue with anyone he’s played under his whole career until now.

 

[evil_geko]

I mean it’s been shown that he doesn’t drop certain underperforming players in general.

His man management clearly sucks for a top club. Varane hasn’t had an issue with anyone he’s played under his whole career until now.

There is nothing "clearly" here at all, because no one here knows what is happening behind the scenes.

 

[Gavinb33]

Everyone doesn't like players leaking shit unless it's against a manager they actively want to see sacked by players they don't hate

 

[Ayoba]

At this rate, he's going to fall out with himself soon.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

He's fallen out with Ronaldo, Sancho and now Varane? Oh no.

Anyway

 

[el3mel]

Because you cannot run an enterprise that way, One person i:e the manager needs to have absolute authority otherwise you get all the shit with player power and such, the boss is the boss and within reason what he says goes. It does not matter what the boss of anything has accomplished or not it is detrimental to have subordinates questioning his authority. The only situation where in any enterprise it would be acceptable is if the subordinates were experienced and the boss was not.
In simple terms if an employee knows more than the boss which players by definition do not since they have never managed.

The only one with absolute authority should be the board or CEO, unless the manager is so good he has become at their level like Ferguson, otherwise, the manager is just an employee like the players and are all under the authority of the club's board.

 

[BeltUp]

See that snivelling little rat Goldbridge is turning on him already over the Varane story. That bloke is a red top newspaper in human form.

 

[evil_geko]

The only one with absolute authority should be the board or CEO, unless the manager is so good he has become at their level like Ferguson, otherwise, the manager is just an employee like the players and are all under the authority of the club's board.

He meant it in regards to the players, which he is right about. No player can be above the manager, ever.

 

[el3mel]

He meant it in regards to the players, which he is right about. No player can be above the manager, ever.

This blind way of taking sides is the easiest way to create a toxic environment. You want to blindly side with an employee even if he's at wrong at something just because he's at a higher position than another employee while that former one hasn't given the club anything more than the later. The players will just get his arse out of the club if they decide to, because the club won't sell the entire squad for one person.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

At this rate, he's going to fall out with himself soon.

We have some difficult games coming up. Can't see ETH surviving Christmas.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

There is nothing "clearly" here at all, because no one here knows what is happening behind the scenes.

Meh, that sounds like cope to just support a manager no matter what. This isn’t the first time Varane has ever been dropped in his career, yet it’s clearly the first time he’s fallen out this hard with a manager. And he isn’t the only one. It’s pretty obvious ETH doesn’t seem to know how to handle any sort of personalities at the moment. Equating him to Fergie just because he’s being “ruthless” is fecking stupid as Fergie clearly knew when and who to be hard with and who to allow leniency with.

 

[Leftback99]

This run of games up to the new year is likely going to be a disaster. Relying on a midfield of McTominay and Amrabat. Fair chance he's gone by mid January.

 

[crossy1686]

How has he picked a “silly fight” with Varane?

Unless you believe players who’ve performed well in the past should never be dropped in case it upsets them.

Do you genuinely feel it’s within Ten Hags and the teams best interests at this point in the season to call out your best fit defender because he played too many square balls in the city game?

 

[crossy1686]

See that snivelling little rat Goldbridge is turning on him already over the Varane story. That bloke is a red top newspaper in human form.

It’s a good job literally no one watches him or takes him seriously

 

[Borninthe80ts]

For those that are saying Ten is poor or at fault with Varane, has the player deserved to start?

Also managers more experienced and with more accolades have fallen out with top players. Maybe criticise the methods but using that as criteria to judge is unfair.

 

[Nonameisknown]

I wonder what you all will say if Fergie was out there falling out with Beckham and Roy Keane today. Let's not forget, one got injured for his troubles.

 

[El Jefe]

I wonder what you all will say if Fergie was out there falling out with Beckham and Roy Keane today. Let's not forget, one got injured for his troubles.

When Ten Hag builds even 10% as much credit in the bank as SAF did then maybe people would see it that way. Btw many people were unhappy with both decisions at the time but grew to like it as Fergie was proven right over time.

Solskjaer was also playing incredible football when Becks got dropped so it was easier to take. Evans, Maguire and Lindelof aren’t close to being as good as Varane.

The way he’s going he’ll fall out with another player before the end of the season and some will still call it a coincidence or say it’s the players fault.

 

[crossy1686]

For those that are saying Ten is poor or at fault with Varane, has the player deserved to start?

Also managers more experienced and with more accolades have fallen out with top players. Maybe criticise the methods but using that as criteria to judge is unfair.

Has anyone said the player deserved to start? The question is, is this really necessary in the middle of the season?

 

[Andersonson]

Glad that the manager is doing something with the player power. Whiney players who moan when dropped due to poor form will only benefit us in the long way. We need this kind of manager if we are gonna end up anywhere. Imagine a player whining and putting up tantrums like Sancho and Varane if it was Pep. They would get sold instantly.

Back the manager, we dont need players running the team

 

[crossy1686]

Glad that the manager is doing something with the player power. Whiney players who moan when dropped due to poor form will only benefit us in the long way. We need this kind of manager if we are gonna end up anywhere. Imagine a player whining and putting up tantrums like Sancho and Varane if it was Pep. They would get sold instantly.

Back the manager, we dont need players running the team

What tantrum exactly do you think Varane has put up?

 

[Cerberus]

With the amount of injuries continuing to pile up, it's starting to be clear why several players have been taking issue with his training methods. There has to be something going wrong in the coaching sessions.

 

[Zlatan 7]

There’s absolutely no harmony in the squad and it’s the managers job to create that bond and harmony. It’s really looking like he can’t, fine if you don’t like a player and sell them but all this mid season nonsense isn’t good, especially so early into the season, twice now

 

[TsuWave]

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[Freak]

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Damn it! This guy always seems to say the right things

 

[roonster09]

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He is spot on.

 

[devilish]

There's a minority shareholder coming in, our club in a mess, injuries keeps piling up and we're playing shit. I can't see ETH surviving past this year

 

[ayushreddevil9]

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Impossible to play like Aja.. nvm

 

[MadDogg]

He meant it in regards to the players, which he is right about. No player can be above the manager, ever.

I would say that no individual player should be above the manager, but at the same time there are times (like Mourinho) where it is the manager's own fault that they turn a significant amount of the dressing room against them. In that situation, the club definitely shouldn't back the manager.

In this case, it's just (supposedly) Varane. The other two were 100% their own fault as they basically expected special treatment regardless of their shit performances on the field, so they would have fallen out with any manager who actually had standards and expectations. Varane is a bit more debatable, but we also don't know how strong the falling out actually is. It's obviously nowhere near what happened with the other two unprofessional twats. It's also not like his performances on the field since he first lost his spot have warranted coming back in.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

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We kind of did last season in the opening two games and... at Anfield. Some of the people who will say now that he's right are among the fans who want immediate results and keep arguing that the manager has to adapt to the squad he's inherited.

Also, there's nothing courageous in making such claims when you're managing Celtic in Scotland and Spurs. Nobody will care if Tottenham miss out on CL football. Try being so carefree when it's expected of you to perform well and the further away you drop from the top spots, the bigger the pressure and the media circus becomes.

I don't know the context of the comment, but if it feels like a cheap shot either at previous Spurs managers, who have won much more in their careers, or at a currently struggling colleague who's trying to steer a much bigger ship.

 

[Gavinb33]

Damn it! This guy always seems to say the right things

He is spot on.

Impossible to play like Aja.. nvm

I can only imagine the reaction the manager would get if we played like Spurs did with 9 against Chelsea but stick to the way you play hey guys

 

[AneRu]

He got injured, the manager then relied on a player coming in from the cold with a point to prove and he then got dropped for tactical reasons. That's the manager's job to make such calls and if he can't fight his way back in then sell him if an offer comes.

 

[DJ_21]

I wonder what you all will say if Fergie was out there falling out with Beckham and Roy Keane today. Let's not forget, one got injured for his troubles.

Times have changed since then. Players are a lot weaker now mentally and have a lot more power to upset the rest of the changing room. You don’t see all these fall outs over at city or Liverpool. No team can be successful if you have players/managers that don’t get along. They won’t play to their 100% best.

 

[Leftback99]

I can only imagine the reaction the manager would get if we played like Spurs did with 9 against Chelsea but stick to the way you play hey guys

Better than how we played with 10 against Copenhagen which will see us crash out of the CL this week.