Do you know how Kamara is doing? Same was said about him when I wanted him on a free, instead we spunked 70m on Casemiro.
Aston Villa appoint Unai Emery as manager
- Thread starter DavidDeSchmikes
- Start date
Do you know how Kamara is doing? Same was said about him when I wanted him on a free, instead we spunked 70m on Casemiro.
Spanish managers doing rather well these days, aren't they? Arteta, Emery, Xabi Alonso, Michel and so on. Food for thought.
i checked: with 81 points they would have won the EPL 6 times
*77 points (81 points is in 40 games, not 38)
But my initial point wasn't that they'll win if they keep it up. My point was that if they keep it up and start getting a few wins against the top teams (thus brining their total down too), then they most definitely could win it.
my bad
Had 2 big jobs at PSG and Arsenal and failed to impress. He seems to do well at the ‘underdog’ clubs rather than teams that are expected to win.
He's class. They have an impressive midfield with him, Luiz and McGinn. Kamara is the standout from the 3 from what I've seen.
I think PSG is an impossible job, nobody has really done that much better than he did there. Arsenal were full of toxic knobheads who mocked his accent, Arteta spent 2 seasons getting rid of them.
No manager is a success at PSG, unless they win the CL. (Which has never happened).
Arteta was close to being sacked with a similar record to Emery, but they decided to stick with him. Emery might have done the same.
He has the highest ever win percentage for a PSG manager and he's not too far behind Wenger and Arteta in that regard for Arsenal.
I've said it before but I think PSG is a weird club when it comes to assessing managers and I think they're hard to really gauge anything about someone because the league and them are kind of odd.
Emery finished 5th and then was sacked in the season Arteta got them to 8th. The next season they finished 8th and then 5th. Arteta didn't immediately jump them up to title challengers, it took time and Emery for whatever reason wasn't afforded that.
Go on, who is? (I'm talking about current PL btw).
Arteta, De Zerbi, ten Hag and Postecoglou are all better / same tier as him. Emery's good but but getting heavily overrated now, let's say Villa finish 6th or 7th, no one will claim he's the 3rd best in the lague.
How are they better?
The body of work that Emery has put in is above any of those names you have mentioned.
Don’t put ideas in United’s head.
Remember when German managers were all the range? You weren’t anyone unless you had a German pressing machine manager. So we got Rangnick..
Some Spanish managers are doing well, but I don’t want the one United would get
It's about a lot of things. A lot depends on the environment, the people surrounding the manager, transfer backing, tactics, man-management, how they conduct training, etc.
Emery is doing a fantastic job at Villa, seems like he's in the right environment and they play decent football as well. Putting him into that category though is just such an overreaction.
Just in the last few weeks we've seen what happened after many posters considered Ange and Howe the best things since sliced bread because their teams went on a good run. If Villa lose and draw a few games in a row they'll be back to 6th or 7th and not one person will be claiming that Emery is the 3rd best manager in the league.
It's called variance being on their side at the moment. In reality even if you send Pep to Villa they won't finish top 4 most times. He's overachieving with the squad and if they finish 5th or 6th that will be considered the best possible job he could've done...but let's not get carried away because they are projected to finish around 80 points after 15 games.
Basing your opinion on just results is almost always the wrong choice, but football fans are fickle, that's for sure...for example, if Arsenal win the league with 95 points, whilst Villa drop down to 6th with 60 points, will you maintain your claim? I don't think so.
As someone said above, Emery has 81 points in 40 games in charge with Villa so far. That is top 4 standard material and they are in a good position to get European football this year while being one of the favourites to win the ECL.
He also had the body of work behind him by winning the EL 4 times (Three times in a row with one club and one with a different club) while winning multiple trophies at PSG and reaching the EL final with Arsenal and a solid 5th place finish - for perspective he has the highest win percentage at PSG and Arteta finished 8th, 8th and then 5th with Arsenal before finishing 2nd last season. The trophy won with Villareal by the way is only the 4th time they've ever won anything and the other three were a lower division title in the 60s and two Intertoto Cups.
He's ahead of all the managers you mentioned aside from Arteta in the league this season and has a more impressive trophy cabinet than all of the managers you have mentioned.
The only factor I'd argue goes in favour of the others (aside from Ten Hag) is that they play better football than him.
Not wading into debate who is better or worse but don't think combining two different seasons for points total tells us much to be honest , infact I am more than confident Villa won't breach 72points mark this season .
I remember Fergie at the beginning of the season in an interview say he couldn't believe the score between Villa and Newcastle on the opening weekend, praising them for the way they played. Looking back at the game, you can see what he was talking about, they just had a really bad day for errors. They are now reaping the rewards of their hard work and persistence.
I think it tells you that a team is consistent and on an upwards trajectory rather than it just being a purple patch.
Some of those are great achievements and I acknowledge them. However, you are trying too hard to paint him in a good light regarding his PSG and Arsenal stints. In Paris he wasn't anything special when compared to the managers that came and went before and after him. At Arsenal he was a complete failure and looked totally clueless.
It also helps that he took over at Villa from a totally incompetent bastard in Gerrard so Villa's uprise was bigger than it would've been if they already had someone half-decent before Emery.
You also need to consider the difference in expectations and pressure at a club like Villa and a club like United or Arsenal. It seems like Emery is a great fit for a club like Villa, a solid PL club looking to break into the top 6. When he tried to rebuild a bigger club Arsenal it was an utter failure. You just need to look at Everton. As soon as Dyche was appointed I knew it was the best possible appointment you could make at the time and he would be the perfect fit...and I don't say this only because Everton have been under relegation threat recently, I think Dyche is more than just a relegation specialist...but put him in charge to rebuild Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal and I don't see him doing too well...at the moment at least, because managers also evolve and regress over time...and that's true for Emery too and I'll give him that.
I also wouldn't say that he plays better football than ten Hag. ETH hasn't been able to play the way he wants at United, but when/if we reach that point with him, I think you'll reconsider that claim.
Some of those are great achievements and I acknowledge them. However, you are trying too hard to paint him in a good light regarding his PSG and Arsenal stints. In Paris he wasn't anything special when compared to the managers that came and went before and after him. At Arsenal he was a complete failure and looked totally clueless.
It also helps that he took over from a totally incompetent bastard in Gerrard so Villa's uprise was bigger than it would've been if they already had someone half-decent before Emery.
You also need to consider the difference in expectations and pressure at a club like Villa and a club like United or Arsenal. It seems like Emery is a great fit for a club like Villa, a solid PL club looking to break into the top 6. When he tried to rebuild a bigger club Arsenal it was an utter failure. You just need to look at Everton. As soon as Dyche was appointed I knew it was the best possible appointment you could make at the time and he would be the perfect fit...and I don't say this because Everton have been under relegation threat recently, I think Dyche is more than just a relegation specialist...but put him in charge to rebuild Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal and I don't see him doing too well...at the moment at least, because managers also evolve and regress over time...and that's true for Emery too and I'll give him that.
I also wouldn't say that he plays better football than ten Hag. ETH hasn't been able to play the way he wants at United, but when/if we reach that point with him, I think you'll reconsider that claim.
I'm not trying hard at all. They're just facts of the situation.
It doesn't matter who came before or after Emery at Villa, his standards aren't just before who was manager before, his standards have been so high that you're comparing him and his Villa side with the best sides in the league.
Also in regards to Arsenal, you seem to think Arteta is brilliant but are ignoring his two 8th placed finishes and his 5th finish. He had two and a bit seasons and did worse and matched Emery. Emery was only given one and a bit. He wasn't afforded anywhere near the time Arteta has been given to reshape the side.
Right, so you think Ten Hag is better because of ifs, buts and maybes on what happens in the future.
I'm talking about the now. The only manager that I'd have a toss up about currently is probably Arteta due to him looking like they could be a serious title challenger unless they bottle it like last year.
That's probably for a reason, don't you think? Moyes wasn't given even 1 transfer window to shake up his United squad
Regarding ten Hag: There are no ifs and buts. His Ajax side played beautiful football. During his first United season we had great performances, playing good football and being objectively the better team even against top teams like Barcelona or Liverpool for example. This season has been less than ideal, but we've not seen what a fully functional ETH side has to offer on the pitch, even if he's been in charge for a long time now.
Because he was terrible. Emery reached 5th place and a EL final. I don't think that is terrible at all for that Arsenal side and considering last season is the only one which they've managed to do anything of note since, I think Emery was treated very harshly in comparison to Arteta, yes.
Also I don't think there is anything wrong with changing opinions on how good players or managers are. Football, much like life, is incredibly fluid and people will have ups and downs and win or lose and go through better and worse patches. Currently, I believe it's very hard to make an argument that any of those are better than Emery and I say that as a big Ange fan.
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This is once again just results-based logic. Arsenal retained Arteta even after they only won 2 PL games from 28 September 2020 until Boxing Day of the same year. And one of those was due to a stupid penalty given away by Pogba at Old Trafford.
...and yet they sacked Emery even though he had more credit in the bank if you just base it on results.
I'm not quite sure what your point is here.
See my post from earlier in the thread. It's kind of hard to judge Emery at Arsenal as we were a mess off the park with changing structure as well as on the park.
On paper 5th & a Europa League final is very decent, but we threw a way 4th in probably a worse collapse than last season, and the result in the final itself especially to a rival was really poor. Then onto the next season we were all over the place both in terms or results & tactically and were mid table when he left.
However, he definitely wasn't afforded the backing Arteta had, he didn't even get to sign his own players & was given players like Pepe he didn't want, and he also wasn't given the time to make the wholesale changes that Arteta ultimately decided was needed. Also, the Good Ebening thing & making fun of his English i think was a bit out of order, & when that filters through to the dressing room you are fighting a losing battle.
Ultimately i think Arteta was Josh Kronkes choice, even when Emery was hired, so he was always up against it a bit. For these reasons i always find it difficult to judge his time, but he is a classy guy, & hope he continues to do well.
He seems to imply, that management already makes the right decision, therefore, according to his logic, the fact that Emery was sacked and Arteta wasn't, unquestionably shows that Arteta is the better coach.
Comparing Emery's stint at Arsenal to Arteta's 8th place finish is unfair because so much background stuff happened.
Once it started going downhill under Emery it went very fast. Some of the names might have been the same on the teamsheets but in reality Arteta inherited 15 Sanchos without the managerial bagage, experience (and money) to deal with it. I still think he did "okay" considering the circumstances. You could see glimpses of what he was trying to do and seeing the results now, i don't even understand how this can still be used as a stick to beat him with.
I liked Emery until it became just too much for everyone involved. A bit too stubborn, issues with the language, the big ego players, the board. Villa is a better environment for him at the moment and i think his stints at PSG and Arsenal show that he'd rather work at a slightly lower level than the biggest European clubs.
Once it started going downhill under Emery it went very fast. Some of the names might have been the same on the teamsheets but in reality Arteta inherited 15 Sanchos without the managerial bagage, experience (and money) to deal with it. I still think he did "okay" considering the circumstances. You could see glimpses of what he was trying to do and seeing the results now, i don't even understand how this can still be used as a stick to beat him with.
I liked Emery until it became just too much for everyone involved. A bit too stubborn, issues with the language, the big ego players, the board. Villa is a better environment for him at the moment and i think his stints at PSG and Arsenal show that he'd rather work at a slightly lower level than the biggest European clubs.
All good and fair points.
I know that at the time I was one who laughed at Emery during the period at Arsenal because it's funny seeing clubs flop at times and mess things up, but in the context of where Arsenal have gone after and what Emery has done after, I think it shows the relative harshness he was treated compared to Arteta who also went through similar runs of bad form.
Couldn't run, constantly got injuries when he did have some sub cameos and on astronomical wages. Only complication was losing Buendia for most of the season but he was never going to be a starting piece in what Emery was building second half of last season so right decision.
He felt out with players and the board. That his "reputation" like Conte's, it is well-known, , otherwise he'd be manager bayern munich right now, not Aston Villa.
As an Arsenal fan I disagree. Yes he failed at Arsenal but there were many reasons for that. I am glad he does well in Villa and get the recognition he deserved. He improved the existing players in Villa through coaching.
First City and now Arsenal. Looking like a genuine title challenger now.
Probably don’t have a deep enough squad to seriously challenge, but they can compete with anyone on their day.
I guess they will fall away early in the new year but Emery has them set up very well and players busting a gut for him.
Gerrard had this lot heading for the championship 
Just shows what a competent manager can do.
Happy for him, as unlikely as it may be im rooting for them to win the whole thing.
Well that's kind of the interesting part... They are fairly stable against mid and lower table teams plus a few OK teams in the top half. It's the big boys they've been destroyed by up until now.