Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Redlambs]

Weren't there several reports of the club planning to bring him back, which led to backlash and then the completely opposite decision was made? We don't know what exactly happened and whether those initial reports were true, however from the outside it does seem the club cracked until the public pressure here.

Whilst true, the "backlash" from people on social media wasn't any bigger than the amount of people wanting him back.

In any case, the point is the club then fecked that rehabilitation royally up. They would have pushed it through still, but the lack of planning and then the leaks made it inevitable. Plus no way the sponsors didn't play a huge part.

As some poster has said above about the current Israel Palestine affair and the media war around it a short video/clip can be very misleading imo it's quite hard to tell about the character of someone over some short audio record. I mean you can live with someone for years and still don't truly understand that one. And we don't even know wtf is that new material. So I also stop judging his character (used to think he was a narcissistic prick).

Agree it'd be interesting to see how the club would handle this. Good thing that we'd have a new management soon and they might be smarter than the current one. Who imo was utterly stupid and incompetent in handling the situation last summer.

Something to bare in mind here is that it's incredibly unlikely those were one off photos and a one off recording. The whole thing is deep and complex, you should be very wary of taking such a strong stance either way.

 

[Remember the geese]

I just made a comment on the video that most of the dribbling and skills ended in nothing, despite it being excellent, which is something you need to get better at if you want to be seen as a top player. Apologies if you just want a circle jerk.

I genuinely have no idea what you were expecting. Do you think goals and assists are conjured up after every dribble or bit of skill? He was quite clearly a massive problem for Atletico and was heavily involved in two of the goals.

 

[SilentWitness]

I genuinely have no idea what you were expecting. Do you think goals and assists are conjured up after every dribble or bit of skill? He was quite clearly a massive problem for Atletico and was heavily involved in two of the goals.

Not talking about just goals or assists, but just finding your own player. There are many poor passes, crosses and shots in the video that do not meet his own man as @Lash also reflects.

 

[redcucumber]

I just made a comment on the video that most of the dribbling and skills ended in nothing, despite it being excellent, which is something you need to get better at if you want to be seen as a top player. Apologies if you just want a circle jerk.

It's quite an odd comment to make, given Greenwood has literally proven he can be productive in the PL. He's never been just a dribbler with zero end product. Even with his time out, it would be pretty bizarre if he suddenly became a Mudryk esque player (which he obviously won't).

 

[cyberman]

Not talking about just goals or assists, but just finding your own player. There are many poor passes, crosses and shots in the video that do not meet his own man as @Lash also reflects.

Can’t we take the word of Griezmann who played in the fecking game?

 

[Lash]

As some poster has said above about the current Israel Palestine affair and the media war around it a short video/clip can be very misleading imo it's quite hard to tell about the character of someone over some short audio record. I mean you can live with someone for years and still don't truly understand that one. And we don't even know wtf is that new material. So I also stop judging his character (used to think he was a narcissistic prick).

Agree it'd be interesting to see how the club would handle this. Good thing that we'd have a new management soon and they might be smarter than the current one. Who imo was utterly stupid and incompetent in handling the situation last summer.

That clip isn't the only evidence of him being a bellend though. It was the cherry on the cake of a lot of bad reports of his character, that were brushed off as him being immature.

I genuinely have no idea what you were expecting. Do you think goals and assists are conjured up after every dribble or bit of skill? He was quite clearly a massive problem for Atletico and was heavily involved in two of the goals.

Finding his teammate would be a start. You know, something we absolutely hammer our players for not doing?

 

[Remember the geese]

Not talking about just goals or assists, but just finding your own player. There are many poor passes, crosses and shots in the video that do not meet his own man as @Lash also reflects.

He's a creative player. You aren't going to find your man every time. The threat was very apparent. Perhaps a speculative cross or pull back should be edited out. I wish Antony could give us a fraction of this.

 

[Remember the geese]

That clip isn't the only evidence of him being a bellend though. It was the cherry on the cake of a lot of bad reports of his character, that were brushed off as him being immature.

Finding his teammate would be a start. You know, something we absolutely hammer our players for not doing?

He found a teammate on several occasions. You won't get 100% pass completion from a creative player.

 

[Skills]

He's obviously still not as sharp as he could be. It's literally his first 15 games.hack after a 18 months away from football.

 

[SilentWitness]

It's quite an odd comment to make, given Greenwood has literally proven he can be productive in the PL. He's never been just a dribbler with zero end product. Even with his time out, it would be pretty bizarre if he suddenly became a Mudryk esque player (which he obviously won't).

I'm commenting purely on this video. In this video there are plenty of examples of the stuff people mock others for in that the end product was poor on so many occasions.

I didn't realise that the circle jerk had reached such a point that a small criticism gets blown up so much. If anything, this is likely why people had a problem with the performance only thread as he's become a messiah type figure where anything said about him is pushed back on. I don't like him at all but have tried to be objective by acknowledging the excellent dribbling on display but also pointing out the deficiencies on display at the same time.

 

[SilentWitness]

He's a creative player. You aren't going to find your man every time. The threat was very apparent. Perhaps a speculative cross or pull back should be edited out. I wish Antony could give us a fraction of this.

Which is fine, I just pointed out that the threat, was more often than not fruitless and something that needs to be worked on. Perhaps if it was better then they'd have won.

 

[Skills]

I'm commenting purely on this video. In this video there are plenty of examples of the stuff people mock others for in that the end product was poor on so many occasions.

I didn't realise that the circle jerk had reached such a point that a small criticism gets blown up so much. If anything, this is likely why people had a problem with the performance only thread as he's become a messiah type figure where anything said about him is pushed back on. I don't like him at all but have tried to be objective by acknowledging the excellent dribbling on display but also pointing out the deficiencies on display at the same time.

You don't know what you're talking about. This isn't basketball where half the possessions result in a score. Footballs a low scoring sport where more often than not, your contribution to an attack doesn't result in a goal - especially if you're just looking at the highlights of a single game.

Greenwood has 5 goals and 4 assists in 15 games. Mudryk has 3 goals and 2 assists to show for his 17 games.

 

[redcucumber]

I'm commenting purely on this video. In this video there are plenty of examples of the stuff people mock others for in that the end product was poor on so many occasions.

I didn't realise that the circle jerk had reached such a point that a small criticism gets blown up so much. If anything, this is likely why people had a problem with the performance only thread as he's become a messiah type figure where anything said about him is pushed back on. I don't like him at all but have tried to be objective by acknowledging the excellent dribbling on display but also pointing out the deficiencies on display at the same time.

Good lord. Nothing about my comment suggested I was engaging in a circle-jerk. I've seen the phrase 'circle-jerk' get bandied about a couple of times in the space of a few comments now, so I'll take that as my cue to leave.

 

[Remember the geese]

Which is fine, I just pointed out that the threat, was more often than not fruitless and something that needs to be worked on. Perhaps if it was better then they'd have won.

You are clearly biased against the guy, so I'll drop it.

 

[SilentWitness]

You don't know what you're talking about. This isn't basketball where half the possessions result in a score. Footballs a low scoring sport where more often than not, your contribution to an attack doesn't result in a goal - especially if you're just looking at the highlights of a game.

Maybe you should read and see that we are talking about more than just goals and assists but finding his own player. There are multiple examples where he doesn't due to a poor cross, poor pass or poor shot.

 

[RedSky]

He still looks a little rusty to me. His choice of pass was sometimes a bit off. But that's a very good performance against Atletico who are 3rd. Better the performances the more money we'll get for him and we need every last pound.

 

[evil_geko]

That video of him looks nothing special, lots of misplaced passes, I expected a lot more seeing how much he was being praised there.

 

[BD]

Yeah it was better than I might've expected after being away for so long, but not nearly as good as some of ye are making out.

 

[V.O.]

Not really. He'd come to Everton and instantly be the best dribbler but that means nothing if your end product isn't there.

Maybe if you're going purely off that one performance, sure, but that's not really a criticism you can level at Greenwood generally.

He can get ridiculous power and accuracy with no backlift off either foot. He scored goals where good keepers looked a full second too slow because he'd gotten the shot away before they'd realised he was even shaping up to shoot. He's probably one of the best natural finishers we've ever had. The cnut.

 

[Lash]

He found a teammate on several occasions. You won't get 100% pass completion from a creative player.

I'm not asking for 100%. I'm just asking to find team mates when it was simple to do so, which there were a couple of instances in that clip. Also bear in mind he was playing against 10 men from the 38th min, so should be a lot easier to do so. His successful crossing for example was 20% 1/5.

Nothing about that has changed my opinion he should stay there for the rest of the season and see things in the round. There's still flaws in his game and I think people frothing at that performance says more about the desperate state our attack is in, rather than where Greenwood is at.

 

[Redlambs]

Yeah it was better than I might've expected after being away for so long, but not nearly as good as some of ye are making out.

Pretty much.

 

[SilentWitness]

Maybe if you're going purely off that one performance, sure, but that's not really a criticism you can level at Greenwood generally.

He can get ridiculous power and accuracy with no backlift off either foot. He scored goals where good keepers looked a full second too slow because he'd gotten the shot away before they'd realised he was even shaping up to shoot. He's probably one of the best natural finishers we've ever had. The cnut.

Yeah, the whole point was that I was just commenting on that video as it was what everyone else was commenting on.

Also he wouldn't suit a Dyche Everton at all really. We let go of Gray (who was the best dribbler at the club) and have benched Danjuma who are both similar types of players.

 

[kaku06]

I'm commenting purely on this video. In this video there are plenty of examples of the stuff people mock others for in that the end product was poor on so many occasions.

People mock Mudryk because he’s been shit the entire time. People don’t mock Mudryk because of one game but because he’s never shown to be an end product guy. Your comparison doesn’t even make any sense in the first place especially when it’s based on one match. It’s like saying Saka has no end product like Mudryk based on one game.

 

[Strelok]

Something to bare in mind here is that it's incredibly unlikely those were one off photos and a one off recording. The whole thing is deep and complex, you should be very wary of taking such a strong stance either way.

That clip isn't the only evidence of him being a bellend though. It was the cherry on the cake of a lot of bad reports of his character, that were brushed off as him being immature.

Tbf that's not a strong stance imo. Saying he's bad or good is. Mine was I don't know. A neutral one. And tbh I don't really care he can be the biggest narcissistic prick but if he can help us to play better and win I surely can live with it.

Like Ronaldo and Mbappe. They are some certified narcissistic ahole imo. But if they keep banging goals for us I would gladly cheer for them tbh. After all it's just football I think.

 

[Kramer]

We should recall him in January (I know it won’t happen)

He could very well be the difference between us playing Champions League football next season or not.

 

[SilentWitness]

People mock Mudryk because he’s been shit the entire time. People don’t mock Mudryk because of one game but because he’s never shown to be an end product guy. Your comparison doesn’t even make any sense in the first place especially when it’s based on one match. It’s like saying Saka has no end product like Mudryk based on one game.

It's an off hand comment about one video. It isn't that deep.

 

[SilentWitness]

I'm not asking for 100%. I'm just asking to find team mates when it was simple to do so, which there were a couple of instances in that clip. Also bear in mind he was playing against 10 men from the 38th min, so should be a lot easier to do so. His successful crossing for example was 20% 1/5.

Nothing about that has changed my opinion he should stay there for the rest of the season and see things in the round. There's still flaws in his game and I think people frothing at that performance says more about the desperate state our attack is in, rather than where Greenwood is at.

Think this is spot on.

 

[Insanity]

Yeah, this is all the fault of some "internet lynch mob".

What, exactly, does he need "redemption" for again? That "whatever mistake"?

You can't have it all ways. If people want to ask for redemption or second chances and all that, then surely you are suggesting he is quilty of something bad enough to spark all this and thus it's not a good look to act like those who don't want him back are actually the bad guys. Also, surely you have to acknowledge at least that any redemption would at least require some kind of contrition and acceptance from him? The fact it's all still being hidden away and both the club and he are willing to lose so much suggests once again that people really don't understand the depth of this.

Regardless of what any of us want or think, there's a reason this all happened and it's very likely we will never know truly what that is. But the fact remains, it did happen and we have to accept what Greenwood himself said in his statement. Because at least in there he admits fault for something, for starting all this:

"However, I fully accept I made mistakes in my relationship, and I take my share of responsibility for the situations which led to the social media post."

People should learn from him and stop looking for blame everywhere else.

On 2 February 2023, the Crown Prosecution Service dropped all charges against Greenwood, citing the withdrawal of key witnesses and "new material that came to light"

Even forgetting bold part above, I am willing to accept that something untoward happened. Still, I feel, as a society we have no right to judge him in the court of public opinion and pass a damning verdict without knowing the full details of the incident. The club decided not to reintegrate him back in the squad because of the optics and the social media backlash instead of whatever come out of their investigation. Which is to me total and utter nonsense.

 

[bosnian_red]

Looks like a very good performance. Basically now it's actually turning into the tough decision of how good of a footballer do you have to be to make clubs overlook off the pitch crimes, so it'll be interesting to see what route Ratcliffe and all go in.

Also if we do decide he moves on, it'll be interesting to see who pushes for him, what sort of bidding war happens. Does he just go to Getafe, or do one of the big teams spend on him? I said originally that he was a 100m player that we lost in the blink of an eye, and whoever took the chance on him would get that for free basically. If he's getting into form again and showing that talent, than that's still the case.

 

[Lash]

Tbf that's not a strong stance imo. Saying he's bad or good is. Mine was I don't know. A neutral one. And tbh I don't really care he can be the biggest narcissistic prick but if he can help us to play better and win I surely can live with it.

Like Ronaldo and Mbappe. They are some certified narcissistic ahole imo. But if they keep banging goals for us I would gladly cheer for them tbh. After all it's just football I think.

But are you just ignoring all the reports of him being unprofessional in training, time-keeping and even supposedly in his attitude to senior players? All those things do not help us play better and win. OK maybe he might have been a bit humbled and not like that now, but it's got to be bit of a red flag, we've seen that with Sancho. That's before we even get onto the topic of his personal life.

I personally don't think his talent is worth the risk.

 

[Skills]

He completed 83% of his passes which included 3 key passes.

 

[Mwooyo]

Sadly there is just a number of people who are simply clueless about the criminal justice system yet wade into the argument either way.

Nope. I think that regarding GW, a lot of fans have the idea that something worse happened than what actually happened. For example, a lot of comments speak like it is a fact that he raped her or he beat her up...stuff that has no other evidence behind it beyond the clips. The moment someone asks genuine serious questions, a section of the fan base drowns them out with "Domestic violence happens" or "Abusive relationships always begin like this"...but we are not doubting those facts...we are only interested in this case...in knowing what exactly happened here and why there is no other evidence outside the 10 min. Crazily enough, a lot of the facts outside the video clip point to a different conclusion.

The fact of the matter is none of us were there...but guess who was there...the girl.. and she has declined to file charges..in fact from the start she didn't want to do so
Even the father of the girl said the whole thing was being misunderstood
Keyword father of the girl

The police would have loved nothing more than to go to court....the public wanted it, and the clips were there...if this girl was in this abusive relationship with Mason...at least a few neighbors would testify..at least a few friends or schoolmate would testify...at least the father or the mother or grandparents of the girl would testify...at least a sister or brother would speak up...at least some relatives would talk, at least the manutd players or staff would speak up...somewhere somehow somebody would speak.

Even if the police fail...the media scrutiny on this issue would have been so intense...they would be willing to pay 10 times whatever GW and his lawyers are paying to get someone to speak on record (or in secret) regarding this abusive relationship.

The police have gone in...looked at everything extensively for several months...gone to the crime scenes...spoken to hundreds of friends...spoken to all relatives....seen all the WhatsApp and Instagram messages and they have decided that there is no case to prosecute without key witnesses...furthermore Manutd did an investigation of their own into the same issues...they must have also gone through a lot of the same evidence...they concluded in their statement that basically says the same thing "he did not do the things we think he did"

We have a 10-minute clip and a bunch of people who investigated this separately and they both concluded, that there was not enough evidence to convict him for the stuff we think he did...but there are a bunch of fans for whom no matter what statements are shared, they will still ask that he doesn't continue at manutd...So if his innocence doesn't matter, then it was never about Justice. "some people just want to watch the world burn"

 

[adexkola]

Does anyone believe he is innocent?

Im not talking about from the legal perspective as we haven’t had a trial.

But does anyone having seen what is in public domain wholeheartedly believe he is innocent?

If so why?

I view it as a pointless question.

He could be, he could not be. Why would I think my opinion mattered in the grand scheme of things?

He's a Manchester United player loaned to Getafe. I limit my concern over him to strictly sporting affairs, and related financial concerns the club may have.

 

[Redlambs]

Tbf that's not a strong stance imo. Saying he's bad or good is. Mine was I don't know. A neutral one. And tbh I don't really care he can be the biggest narcissistic prick but if he can help us to play better and win I surely can live with it.

Like Ronaldo and Mbappe. They are some certified narcissistic ahole imo. But if they keep banging goals for us I would gladly cheer for them tbh. After all it's just football I think.

My apologies, I thought you were the one saying you now think he's innocent but I'm on my phone now so should have looked back.

Sadly, no matter what the circumstance, someone has lied or is lying here though. Which is why there's no chance he will be coming back without a full on media offensive. Such is life.

Even forgetting bold part above, I am willing to accept that something untoward happened. Still, I feel, as a society we have no right to judge him in the court of public opinion and pass a damning verdict without knowing the full details of the incident. The club decided not to reintegrate back into the squad because of the optics and the social media backlash instead of whatever come out of their investigation. Which is to me total and utter nonsense.

Even though you've ignored my points directly addressing your calls for "redemption", I will say it's also total and utter nonsense to think that blaming the public rather than the people involved and the club itself is the correct path.

It's even more nonsense to suggest he can just come back with that damning evidence out there and that anyone who saw those pictures and heard that audio are somehow in the wrong for having a reaction to them.

But here we are in this situation. Rightly or wrongly, there's simply no winners here and we have to accept that. There is no plausible explanation that absolves all parties, no "oh look it's actually all ok!" moment. Serious allegations were made, serious evidence released and either way someone or all involved are badly in the wrong. That's the basics of it, and to expect people just to be able to walk away from this like nothing has happened is incredibly (this one's for you @Regulus Arcturus Black ) myopic.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Does anyone believe he is innocent?

Im not talking about from the legal perspective as we haven’t had a trial.

But does anyone having seen what is in public domain wholeheartedly believe he is innocent?

If so why?

Obviously no-one can wholeheartedly believe in his innocence who doesn’t have access to all of the facts.
There’s still simply too much we don’t know to wholeheartedly believe anything, despite how so many are convinced they can call him a “r****t” on these boards, something he wasn’t even charged with.

 

[bosnian_red]

Does anyone believe he is innocent?

Im not talking about from the legal perspective as we haven’t had a trial.

But does anyone having seen what is in public domain wholeheartedly believe he is innocent?

If so why?

There'd be a very easy solution if it was a big mix up. His wife could just come out and release a statement saying that it's not what it looked like, doesn't even need to give any information if she wants to keep it private. But literally a 1 sentence thing would pretty much make it all go away. The fact that she never did this but is with him 100% points to it being real what happened, but she just "forgave him".

1 sentence and they wouldn't have had to move away, he wouldn't have gone 1.5 years banned from football, he wouldn't be hated worldwide. That's the father of his child and husband (I think they got married?). Anyone who thinks it didn't happen just needs to ask, why didn't she then come out and release any comment to just close the book on this?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That's the basics of it, and to expect people just to be able to walk away from this like nothing has happened is incredibly (this one's for you @Regulus Arcturus Black ) myopic.

I mean, the entire footballing country of Spain seems to have carried in like nothing happened, and we had no problem carrying on with Alonso at Chelsea.
People in general can and eventually do walk away from caring all the time, it’s just not close enough to home. Obviously those who feel extremely strongly won’t, but most people just don’t tend to hold such strong feelings over something in the life of a celebrity/sportsman.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There'd be a very easy solution if it was a big mix up. His wife could just come out and release a statement saying that it's not what it looked like, doesn't even need to give any information if she wants to keep it private. But literally a 1 sentence thing would pretty much make it all go away. The fact that she never did this but is with him 100% points to it being real what happened, but she just "forgave him".

1 sentence and they wouldn't have had to move away, he wouldn't have gone 1.5 years banned from football, he wouldn't be hated worldwide. That's the father of his child and husband (I think they got married?). Anyone who thinks it didn't happen just needs to ask, why didn't she then come out and release any comment to just close the book on this?

You can’t really believe that ?

The media and those convinced of his guilt wouldn’t just accept that man, they’d still be stating exactly the same things as to why they are still together, many victims stand by their accusers. They’d still want proof.

 

[Mwooyo]

Does anyone believe he is innocent?

Im not talking about from the legal perspective as we haven’t had a trial.

But does anyone having seen what is in public domain wholeheartedly believe he is innocent?

If so why?

You are asking the wrong questions. Innocent of what? Innocent of rape or battering...Yes...and it is very very probable. Given the nature of how the clips were released...initial statements from the father and the outcome of investigations from the police and club.... it's most likely that none of that serious stuff we think happened, actually happened. love and jealousy can make people do crazy things. Hell hath no fury like a person scorned

 

[bosnian_red]

You can’t really believe that ?

And why not? It's 1 statement to publically clear her husband. If of course it's a big mix up. If it isn't, then she wouldn't make one.... Like she currently hasn't.

It's not an ongoing police case. She didn't report the initial things, her friends allegedly did. It would be very easy for her to close this, if what happened wasn't real.