They aren’t the same type of player?Explain Casemiro’s career then?
Grow up and research yourself.Sure you’re not.
Starting to wonder if you’ve just made this shit up.
Yeah, agreed.Rice must be good because these are the type of silly bumps that happened in Kante’s thread when he had the odd bad game.
Distance carrying the ball forwardKDB barely played? Also progressive distance? Wtf is that?
Last season, KdB featured in 32 league games. Anyway, the leading men in progressive passes were Odegaard (266) and Bruno (263). Rice, in comparison, had 240. Progressive distance measures how much forward a player has moved with the ball. Rice, who can only destroy and apparently doesn't offer much in possession, travelled 4,89km with the ball toward the opposition goal. Only Rodri did better.KDB barely played? Also progressive distance? Wtf is that?
Oh Defs made up then. Likely you’ve taken the stats over the entire course of a long last season and compared them to the start of this season. If you actually had a place to quickly compare the first 19 games of last season to this, you would obviously share it so yeah I’m gonna call bullshit on this.Grow up and research yourself.
It's all online mate, just look, I am not going to spoon-feed you, I really don't care that much.
Yeah, this sums it all up perfectly. The idea that Rice makes teams worse by his presence is obviously absurd. He is clearly a very good player. He is also having a good season, individually. So this witch hunt is even dumber than the usual writing off a new signing too early, seeing as he isn’t even playing badly.It has nothing to do with how Rice is playing. If Arsenal had stuck with him and Xhaka in the middle and let Odegaard be a 10 and Martinelli be a proper attacking forward, they would be doing better. Arteta has messed up his system trying to accommodate Havertz.
West Ham are not better without Rice, they just used the money really well. They basically got Kudus, Ward-Prowse, Alvarez and Mavropanos in an exchange. All of them have improved their team in different ways.
It’s a home run and an excellent use of those resources by the club. It’s nothing to do with Rice making them worse. They just have a better team now.
Casemiro was always the deepest midfielder at Madrid. Just like he is for us. Just like Rice is for Arsenal. They play the same role.They aren’t the same type of player?
Casemiro played a much more subdued role at Madrid compared to what he does for us, but even at Madrid he liked the occasional gander to the box and positioned himself much more aggressively than Rice, you wouldn’t see him the deepest in a 3 man line with his CBs, like, at all.
And?Casemiro was always the deepest midfielder at Madrid. Just like he is for us. Just like Rice is for Arsenal. They play the same role.
The whole conversation is about Rice being worth £100 million.Rice must be good because these are the type of silly bumps that happened in Kante’s thread when he had the odd bad game.
I’m not arguing all midfielders are identical. I’m disagreeing with the idea that “middle to top teams” shouldn’t or don’t play with a Declan Rice type of midfielder. Which is, obviously, nonsense. Just like it would be nonsense to argue that Casemiro is significantly better on the ball than Rice. They’re similar players, with similar attributes.And?
Just because two players play in the same position doesn’t mean they bring the same thing to the team, or you are saying there’s no different between a Makelele and a Busquets?
How deep is your deepest midfielder matters, his choice of the passes matter, there’s a material difference between someone evading the press by dropping in between the CBs to receive it in space, and someone who can receive it on the turn and bypass his marker.
Casemiro is better on the ball than Rice.I’m not arguing all midfielders are identical. I’m disagreeing with the idea that “middle to top teams” shouldn’t or don’t play with a Declan Rice type of midfielder. Which is, obviously, nonsense. Just like it would be nonsense to argue that Casemiro is significantly better on the ball than Rice. They’re similar players, with similar attributes.
You made a claim regarding some stats, you should really back it up with a source when someone questions it.Grow up and research yourself.
It's all online mate, just look, I am not going to spoon-feed you, I really don't care that much.
That’s not what happens though. How can you make that argument on the same page as someone pointed out he was amongst the most progressive passers in the league last season?Casemiro is better on the ball than Rice.
And the will to do something matters a lot more often than the ability. For all we know Rice might have the passing and vision of Riquelme but if he doesn’t show it and just defaults to the safe options everytime then what does it matter?
Everyone knows he was overpriced, I don’t think anyone has said otherwise even Arsenal fans would agree to that. Despite being overpriced, he’s absolutely been a hit of a signing and will be an important Arsenal player for many years.The whole conversation is about Rice being worth £100 million.
Kante didn't cost anywhere near that even allowing for inflation.
Because stats can be deceiving, it’s the same kind of stats that have Bruno tops this season on chance creation, when him spamming crosses or passes that lead to a weak attempt at goal is counted as a chance. In Rice’s case, due to the nature of his game, any pass would count as ‘progression’ when all he does is a 5 yard passes to the man slightly ahead of him, under no pressure, that accumulates over a season, whereas someone who positions himself higher will have less but on the occasion he does manage to find the forward pass will set his team up for success better.That’s not what happens though. How can you make that argument on the same page as someone pointed out he was amongst the most progressive passers in the league last season?
Kinda meaningless statDistance carrying the ball forward
Not true since for a pass to qualify as progressive must either move the ball at least 10 yards toward the opposition goal or, if it's <10 yards, be a pass inside the opposition box.Because stats can be deceiving, it’s the same kind of stats that have Bruno tops this season on chance creation, when him spamming crosses or passes that lead to a weak attempt at goal is counted as a chance. In Rice’s case, due to the nature of his game, any pass would count as ‘progression’ when all he does is a 5 yard passes to the man slightly ahead of him, under no pressure, that accumulates over a season, whereas someone who positions himself higher will have less but on the occasion he does manage to find the forward pass will set his team up for success better.
Agreed, it's usually how it happens, a team spreads those funds in multiple areas and they do better. Look at Liverpool post Coutinho.It has nothing to do with how Rice is playing. If Arsenal had stuck with him and Xhaka in the middle and let Odegaard be a 10 and Martinelli be a proper attacking forward, they would be doing better. Arteta has messed up his system trying to accommodate Havertz.
West Ham are not better without Rice, they just used the money really well. They basically got Kudus, Ward-Prowse, Alvarez and Mavropanos in an exchange. All of them have improved their team in different ways.
It’s a home run and an excellent use of those resources by the club. It’s nothing to do with Rice making them worse. They just have a better team now.
So if he's thirty yards from his own goal and plays a ball to his RB who is fifteen yards ahead of him, that's a progressive pass?Not true since for a pass to qualify as progressive must either move the ball at least 10 yards toward the opposition goal or, if it's <10 yards, be a pass inside the opposition box.
Erm… yes.So if he's thirty yards from his own goal and plays a ball to his RB who is fifteen yards ahead of him, that's a progressive pass?
Yes, it is. And because, nowadays, these "build-up" passes occur under pressure and defenders/goalkeepers/defensive midfielders tend to have playmaking abilities in their CVs, that particular stat is deemed worthy of mention by most sites and journalists. Or, perhaps, people think that Rodri is getting the same numbers by doing what a #10 does on the pitch.So if he's thirty yards from his own goal and plays a ball to his RB who is fifteen yards ahead of him, that's a progressive pass?
It’s the general idea, if you are in space as the deepest or second deepest player, your passing even if unimaginative and routine will accumulate quickly in those two regards.Not true since for a pass to qualify as progressive must either move the ball at least 10 yards toward the opposition goal or, if it's <10 yards, be a pass inside the opposition box.
Very much agree with this, he is good is he next level good as the price tag suggests the answer is no but then the answer for that question is also true for Enzo and Caicedo at Chelsea and as stated the price tag for midfielders are obscene at the minute which for United's sake i hope Gore and Mainoo both end up as 1st team players as it will save us about 200 million at the going rate.Quality midfielder for sure Does a lot of things right. But no way is he worth the kind of money that Arsenal paid for him. The inflation in the transfer fees of central midfielders in the Premier League is a thing to behold
Not sure everybody does think he's overpriced. I've had a few conversations here with people who think he's worth it.Everyone knows he was overpriced, I don’t think anyone has said otherwise even Arsenal fans would agree to that. Despite being overpriced, he’s absolutely been a hit of a signing and will be an important Arsenal player for many years.
Pretty much all mega transfer players have struggled at their new teams to begin with. Rice is the only one in the PL to be this successful after half the season and he’s just 24.
He’s not even the finished product yet and has Arteta there to polish his game. I really don’t get any of the criticism for him in here. If he had the exact same season for us he’d be a hero here.
I don't think that's the case. For me, he's a good passer of the ball in the sense that, after he wins the second ball or regains possession high up the pitch, he often "sees" the pass, simple as it my seem, that allows his team to maintain its attacking momentum and rhythm of play. In deeper positions, he secures possession and helps with good circulation of the ball. There's purpose to his passing choices, more often than not, he doesn't have to be a Pirlo or later-era Scholes. Carrick was never that for us, either, and he still hasn't been adequately replaced after all these years. Now, since you mentioned Bruno, you could argue that Moyes' deep line and counter-attacking style made it easier for him to "see" these passes, just like Bruno is one of the main beneficiaries of games that get stretched and spaces open up. Still, we should wait to see where he stands in these categories at the end of the season. Or, maybe, wait until his second full year at a club that aims to finish in the top-two spots, before we declare him a bad investment.It’s the general idea, if you are in space as the deepest or second deepest player, your passing even if unimaginative and routine will accumulate quickly in those two regards.
What I won’t argue against Rice is his progressive carry, as he’s physically very strong and a robust runner, in that regard the stat matches the eye test, but you can’t tell me to ignore my eyes and say that he’s a creative, progressive passer, he’s not.
Oh but Rice gives them a perfect platform or some other intangible bollocks.Xhaka was a better fit for Arsenal. Change my mind.
What is successful in your mind? What have he done to say he is successful Playing in team that is winning is not that. Then we could all say that every player in winning team is successful. He is not vital to them as some people think.Everyone knows he was overpriced, I don’t think anyone has said otherwise even Arsenal fans would agree to that. Despite being overpriced, he’s absolutely been a hit of a signing and will be an important Arsenal player for many years.
Pretty much all mega transfer players have struggled at their new teams to begin with. Rice is the only one in the PL to be this successful after half the season and he’s just 24.
He’s not even the finished product yet and has Arteta there to polish his game. I really don’t get any of the criticism for him in here. If he had the exact same season for us he’d be a hero here.
Spot onIt has nothing to do with how Rice is playing. If Arsenal had stuck with him and Xhaka in the middle and let Odegaard be a 10 and Martinelli be a proper attacking forward, they would be doing better. Arteta has messed up his system trying to accommodate Havertz.
West Ham are not better without Rice, they just used the money really well. They basically got Kudus, Ward-Prowse, Alvarez and Mavropanos in an exchange. All of them have improved their team in different ways.
It’s a home run and an excellent use of those resources by the club. It’s nothing to do with Rice making them worse. They just have a better team now.
Sure. The stats are misleading. Your opinion couldn’t possibly be wrong. Makes sense.Because stats can be deceiving, it’s the same kind of stats that have Bruno tops this season on chance creation, when him spamming crosses or passes that lead to a weak attempt at goal is counted as a chance. In Rice’s case, due to the nature of his game, any pass would count as ‘progression’ when all he does is a 5 yard passes to the man slightly ahead of him, under no pressure, that accumulates over a season, whereas someone who positions himself higher will have less but on the occasion he does manage to find the forward pass will set his team up for success better.
I’m not going to be drawn into a debate on whether being able to bring the ball through the middle of the park through the thirds by ball carrying is meaningless. It’s such a stupid opinion to have.Kinda meaningless stat
He’s been one of the better players in a team that has been top of the league for most of the season and is only two points off top spot now.What is successful in your mind? What have he done to say he is successful Playing in team that is winning is not that. Then we could all say that every player in winning team is successful. He is not vital to them as some people think.
We have players that are equal to him and I haven’t seen threads about heroes yet. That have to do with us not being that great. As a team.
This is a fair take. He’s been one of our best players (I’d say third behind Saliba and the criminally underrated Gabriel). And I can’t think of a DM playing better than him in the league this season. But yes, I would much rather have paid £80m for him and had money to spend on other areas.He's neither one of the best players of this season, nor is he as shit as some people rate him here. He's a great player who would instantly stabilize our midfield, but has a slightly too high price tag that sets the standard too high for him. I'd say for 80m he would have been a great transfer, 105m is too much. He still is one of Arsenal's key players and they play great football. Anyway, look at our own players first before shitting on others. Antony, Hojlund, Mount, Onana, Sancho and Maguire all have been worse transfers than Rice.
Yep, I was gonna say this, but few people get a bit touchy whenever Gooners say anything along those lines around here.He’s been one of the better players in a team that has been top of the league for most of the season and is only two points off top spot now.
He’s doing his job well, I did however read that Arsenal’s big attacking issue this season is how much less ball Odegaard is seeing and how that in part is due to Partey finding him much more often than Rice manages.This is a fair take. He’s been one of our best players (I’d say third behind Saliba and the criminally underrated Gabriel). And I can’t think of a DM playing better than him in the league this season. But yes, I would much rather have paid £80m for him and had money to spend on other areas.
So you think Bruno Fernandes has been the best creative midfielder in the league this season? After all, the stats say so.Sure. The stats are misleading. Your opinion couldn’t possibly be wrong. Makes sense.
