Madrid or Barca wouldn't go near him. For the PR disaster alone.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Super League didn't phase them. You think they'd be afraid of the backlash from Greenwood's case?
One would make them money, the other loses it.
I've said this all along that the whole problem with the idea of some PR campaign to bring him back boils down to the most basic point behind all this:
Either he did do it and has a history of it, or she lied and falsely accused out of anger.
Regardless of all the ifs and buts and nuances around it all, the basic facts are that the evidence was put out in the early hours of the morning from her phone to her social media account(s) and made a statement that was months later retracted. And despite potentially loosing his top level career and most definitely International one, the fact there is no defence from him says it all.
There simply cannot be a good enough explanation for that audio that makes everything OK again, because either he is getting it in the neck both (potentially) legally and from the crowds/public or she is. This is why those statements were so vague, why United have not had any kind of plan, and likely why the investigation was kept in house and out of the hands of anyone else.
The only possible way he'll play for United again is if they put out some bullshot pr and just brute force the storm. But that doesn't solve the human problem of what either/both will face. It's a desperately sad situation all round whichever way you look at it.
Either he did do it and has a history of it, or she lied and falsely accused out of anger.
Regardless of all the ifs and buts and nuances around it all, the basic facts are that the evidence was put out in the early hours of the morning from her phone to her social media account(s) and made a statement that was months later retracted. And despite potentially loosing his top level career and most definitely International one, the fact there is no defence from him says it all.
There simply cannot be a good enough explanation for that audio that makes everything OK again, because either he is getting it in the neck both (potentially) legally and from the crowds/public or she is. This is why those statements were so vague, why United have not had any kind of plan, and likely why the investigation was kept in house and out of the hands of anyone else.
The only possible way he'll play for United again is if they put out some bullshot pr and just brute force the storm. But that doesn't solve the human problem of what either/both will face. It's a desperately sad situation all round whichever way you look at it.
Terrrible post
Utd aren’t renewing his contract , its written into his old one they can exercise a +1 year if they want to and which they are well entitled to do.
There not extending his contract or be returning to the club as certain sponsors won't be happy!! Its known allready by most fansTerrrible post
Utd aren’t renewing his contract , its written into his old one they can exercise a +1 year if they want to and which they are well entitled to do.
Thanks for the update Sir JimThere not extending his contract or be returning to the club as certain sponsors won't be happy!! Its known allready by most fans
Your giving us Irish posters on here a bad name by posting your drivel, why don't you toddle off back to twitter and spout your shite there.There not extending his contract or be returning to the club as certain sponsors won't be happy!! Its known allready by most fans
I can’t wait to say I told you so! What’s particularly wrong about the post?
I know right? I couldn't even be arsed to reply to him, he'll be banned at some stage like them all.
I would be very surprised if this idea hasn't been discussed by Ratcliffe & Brailsford in the last couple of weeks. Maybe they met with him whilst he was over for Christmas. The problem with this is many people will just think it's PR full of fluff.
I don't personally want him back at this stage - not due to the allegations but more so because I think it would be a step back for his career as the extra media focus would be detrimental to his development and focus compared to playing abroad. I just can't see it working at present and this thread is testament to that. I'd be happy for his contract to be extended and to re-evaluate in the future but I presume the player would probably rather find a full time club instead of being stuck in limbo.
Understandably this isn't enough for some people who have decided to fill in the blanks with their own theories and concluded he's guilty - which they're entitled to. But I don't believe Mason, his partner or their family owe any Man Utd fan anything in terms of what goes on in their personal life and any statement will be met by the same group of fans once again filling in the blanks with their own theories to align with what they concluded when the content was first posted on social media.
For me I think I'm in the minority with some of my views when it comes to incidents like this whereby I believe that people can reform and rehabilitate themselves and I'm a supporter of giving people that opportunity. David Goodwillie for instance has came under alot of scrutiny since being found guilty in a civil court of rape a decade ago and till this day many fans understandably don't want him associated with their club. I support his return to football as the offence was committed over a decade ago and there have been no repeat offenses. Adam Johnson I'd support a return to football for because again I believe in giving people a second chance but obviously I fully understand I'm in a significant minority with that view again and I'm not attempting to convince anybody otherwise.
Figures I do take more issue with is those like Joey Barton who have a long history of offences over a prolonged period of time and seem to have an inability to learn from their mistakes or reform - maybe part of this is because football has been too forgiving for his past incidents? Who knows. So maybe my views on second chances are wrong when we look at somebody such as Joey for example.
As a strong supporter of rehabilitation and reintegration of criminals due to the low reoffending rates in countries which put more emphasis on this - I feel that I'd be a hypocrite if I changed my stance based on the crime committed. Of course crimes should be treated differently based on their severity I'm not contesting that but if they've served their time then I feel as a society we should be trying to rehabilitate and reintegrate rather than isolate. Maybe there is compelling evidence out there which shows certain crimes, even in countries with a focus on rehab, still have high reoffending rates and should be treated differently. I've not done the research in depth to comment on this but again I feel any research should be based of that in countries which focus on rehab rather than the USA or UK which don't have such a strong focus.
I should add as well that the above paragraph is only applicable if Greenwood committed what he was accused of - none of us know the answer to this.
I also don't think those firmly in the "he's guilty" camp or more morale with their views either as some have implied or suggested in their replies. I don't think many fans hold Cantona in a bad light for the assault he committed on a fan and I don't believe there were a large number of fans which were opposed to him returning to the club at the time either. If it were to happen today though I feel due to "trial by social media" people would think differently. History tells us though that bringing him back into the fold after serving his punishment was the right thing to do and I don't believe he's committed any serious offences since. Had this happened today then things may have paved out differently in terms of public backlash and without that second change Cantona may have went down a different path himself too.
But I certainly do not think that supporting a players return to football after being accused of a crime makes you a domestic violence sympathiser or apologist or somebody who lacks morals, and likewise if you supported a players return who was found guilty of said crime and served the punishment I don't think that applies either. It is possible to be opposed to domestic violence while also being a supporter of rehabilitating people who have committed these crimes and giving them a second chance too. I find comments which say otherwise to be very disingenuous and similar to kafkatrapping and an attack on peoples character with whom they disagree.
Lastly this is just my opinion, I respect other peoples views which they've posted on this thread and I accept I have alot of opinions which many disagree with listed above. I don't intend to cause any offence and I apologize if my potential naivety offends others - it's not intended.
@MrParker I don't think I disagree with a word you've said there. A very nuanced and reasonable post, well expressed. I'm in the same boat really. I believe in rehabilitation, especially as Greenwood was 19 at the time of the incident, but I don't think England is the best place for him and him returning isn't the best thing for us either. We have too much instability and this Summer, I think we need to get the tone right with everything. Greenwood is doing fairly well in Spain and the flack hasn't been too bad. He'll get ripped apart in England. I think we can hope that he's done well enough for us to get some decent money for him and, as a homegrown player being sold, he'd provide extra value in terms of FFP.
Thank you for your kind response. I don't expect
Agree about him not returning too simply because I think the off field stuff would cast too large a shadow and likely be detrimental for both player and club. Maybe a deal with a buy back or first refusal to buy would be worth considering which potentially leaves the door open in the future for a return if public opinion were to change. As you said yourself too, with FFP, the money from a deal could be particularly beneficial at this moment and time too.
*I'm not saying I believe Mason is innocent or guilty, I'm simply speaking about rehabilitation in the event he had been found guilty. I feel it would be careless of me to draw a verdict or imply he's one or the other while there is alot of evidence out there which I've not seen. In the event he was guilty and served a sentence, I would support a return to the workplace which in Masons instance is on a football pitch.
Would you guys stop using Cantona in your bizarre comparisons. He rightly gave an abusive fan a smack, went to court for it and served time out of football.
Comparing that to someone who was heard threatening rape to his girlfriend, plus pictures of her bruised and cut is not comparable.
the first is a crime we could all do when pushed far enough, the second, I’d like to think that some of you at least think “that’s not on” or it wouldn’t even cross your mind to threaten to or to do such a thing
Classic basic human behavior, trying to read the most negative in between the lines. Am I saying she's to blame? No. So it'd suit the conversation if you refrain from 'assuming' that I am, which is indicated by your last sentence.
All I'm saying is, there's always more to a story than just oone side. Anyone with a bit of life experience will know this.
It all started because someone stated that 'either people are for rape or not'. Life's not black or white.
Take the Depp vs. Heard case. Everyone had turned their back on Depp, until he pushed the case to show what had actually transpired prior to her few selective bits of recordings of him (Depp) during a fight.
Thank you Dr. Phil for your analysis on "basic human behaviour". Now back to the words that you wrote.
You didn't explain what you meant by "we do not know what type his girlfriend is".
You then reference gaslighting. And now you reference the Depp vs. Heard case.
What are you suggesting might have happened? That she made it all up and staged it?
The fence sitting "I'm on both sides" shtick would likely work better if you could actually stop yourself going to all the effort of striking that "everyone".
Also the "whatever he is" guff you repeat is so obvious too.
Say what you really think, or don't bother. You aren't fooling anyone with half a clue.
I don't believe I've tried to equate what Greenwood was accused of to what Cantona did anywhere. I was simply speaking about fan backlash back then compared to if it happened today and his reintegration. Both players did spend time out of football though, so you're correct there.
I don't think there is any justification for violence no matter how far someone is "pushed" unless it's in an act of self defence due to them feeling threatened, I'm surprised that you feel this is acceptable or can be justified. How much violence do you think is acceptable to use in situations where one is antagonized but not at risk of being physically hurt? Similarly if Greenwood did what he was accused of there isn't a justification for that either.
What I do believe in though is the opportunity to reform and rehabilitate and I support a second chance for 99.99% of individuals. Something which I accept many may feel differently on and I don't intend to attempt to convince them otherwise.
Dont talk to much but bring him back. He is not proven guilty which means that we have to trust the outcome of the case.
In fairness, what MrParker suggested in terms of social media reaction, had Cantona committed that transgression in the modern day is not unreasonable. I listened to a BBC Radio show back in 2015 that recounted the event that night at Selhurst Park, 20 years prior.
They had the former Crystal Palace manager Alan Smith (manager that night), Richard Shaw (the player that Cantona kicked out at to get sent off the bodyguard of Eric Cantona) , who would escort to the various hearings and Jon Champion the commentator for BBC Radio 5 live that night.
The latter said himself that even Sir Alex Ferguson, "who was a staunch protector of his players" would have found it difficult to have fought against the wave of social media opinion had that occurred now. We know Ferguson could defend against traditional forms of media such as the press, but when you thousands if not millions posting their views online you would have to be strong against that tide of opinion. That is not to say that Ferguson could not have done it, but there is a different landscape of opinion to deal with.
Amongst those millions, you have so called celebrities sticking their oars in, in order to attract an online presence and please their "followers".
I think you have jumped down the original posters throat there.
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Nah... people keep saying this stuff and its not true. Barca and Madrid will be 100% interested if he continues delivering like he is. These clubs are run purely on football performances on the pitch. If they can remain in something as controversial as the super league, they will want greenwood.
People just really want greenwood to do a ravel morrison by failing and disappearing into nothingness but he is delivering. Its only us who are taking the whole thing personal...the CPS dropped it...the girl dropped it and married him...the club investigated and also wanted to drop it but unfortunately we are driven by social media and commercial concerns first before considering on field performances.
If Ferguson was still around... Greenwood would be 1000% back. The only thing that would make Ferguson sell him would be on field performances or discipline issues...until manutd go back to being a football club first and foremost...we will always flatter to deceive.
This is why we have kept players like martial, mctominay, phil jones etc for as long as we do. We keep them to "be the face of the club" or because they are "from the youth academy" but never because they are actually delivering week in and week out
I find the comparisons of Greenwood to Cantona, including the "fan reaction" strawman, entirely disingenuous.
Why jump down his throat for having a different opinion? This thread would be fine without this crap.
Blah blah blah that just distract from the inevitable conclusion that he is a scumbag who has shown no awareness of what he has done, much less expressed remorse, surely something needed before "rehabilitation" is even possible. It also adds to the sometimes overpowering smell of DARVO in this thread.
no thanks
This is also why they reopen the performance only discussion.
I find it disgusting.. not comparable at all.
Because it is a rubbish opinion and a discussion forum is about opinions and particularly challenging rubbish ones. And this thread would be fine without this crap if you are a) Mason Greenwood, b) his mum, or c) a Greenwood apologist (or one for the behavior he engaged in).
There is a reason for that
Can you please elaborate on this riddle? I've said what I think and you don't like it so you're now suggesting I'm not genuine?
Thank you - not once did I try to compare what Greenwood is alleged to have done to what Cantona did. It's been taken out of context and I don't know why.
There wasn't a comparison between the crimes. I made a post which referenced many footballers yet it seems some wish to focus on one, cantona, and ignore the rest. Is the reference of David Goodwillie, Adam Johnson or Joey Barton strawman and disingenuous?
What is disingenuous is distorting my words and taking them out of context to try and discredit my opinion because some of you don't like it.
If anything is strawman it's trying to justify a violent assault by suggesting Cantona "rightly" attacked a fan and it's something we could all do when "pushed". What is your view on this? Do you also agree or are you not calling that out because it's a poster who dislikes Greenwood as much as yourself? If someone said that about what Greenwood was alleged to do I imagine the response would be much different yet a blind eye is turned to someone trying to justify violent assault because they share a similar opinion to you on Greenwood.
And I'm the disingenous one with a strawman argument because me saying I'd support Adam Johnson having a return to football is part of my disingenous act to strengthen my argument by making an outlandish mostly unpopular opinion which most would disagree with? I haven't at any stage tried to compare what Greenwood did to what Cantona did, just like I i didn't compare what Greenwood did to Bartons history of assaults because they're completely different crimes. Read the post, don't try and put words in my mouth and make out I did something I didn't.
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Because nobody is ignoring anything and past behavior by other club's players, or United players in utterly different circumstances, have zero to do with Mason Greenwood and his behavior, which is the current subject of this discussion. In other words it is just distracting whataboutery.
What exactly was so objectionable about his opinion?
Conceded is opinion probably isn't popular? Check.
Recognition it's a sensitive topic? Check
Admitted his ignorance of what actually happened? Check.
Clearly stated he believes in rehabilitation even if he did it? Check.
Yet still gets an unhinged reply. Silly stuff.
Yes, I'm an apologist for a player who I don't care if he ever plays for the club again. Got me.
Because it is a wall of text that totally misses the point regarding Greenwood and uses false equivalency (with hints of appeal to hypocrisy) to distract from Greenwood's behavior.
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You're hyper-focused on a single poor example while ignoring the premise:
That's pretty much what I got from his post (hence the Adam Johnson example) and while I personally disagree this isn't a crazy take at all.
No I'm not. The only point here is Greenwood's behaviour and the question of if he should be allowed back to United based on that behaviour.
Where is the false equivalency? He gave multiple, very similar examples.
Wibble sums it up perfectly. But what are you on about? Who is turning a blind eye to what Cantona did? How is what he did relevant to this thread? Who is putting words in your mouth? So many bizarre strawmen that i don't know where to start.