Amazing that a conflict so simple is still going on after 80+ years. Thank heavens itvisn't complex or we may never find a solution.
Oh wait...
Israel-Palestine | Genocide in Gaza
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Amazing that a conflict so simple is still going on after 80+ years. Thank heavens itvisn't complex or we may never find a solution.
Oh wait...
Israel army obviously are a bigger stain though.
Not surprised by how many bad takes we get here with the type of propaganda people are exposed to and this is from the supposed "liberal" papers.
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Oh now I understand why you think this is a complex situation. Cheers.
Because that's precisely how the world works.
The issue with me is the lack of consistency. Let's go through it.
Nov 19. Israeli diplomat claims: "We’ve sent letters and shared graphic documentation," Sarah Weiss Maudi, a senior diplomat and legal adviser in Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told Fox News Digital. "Their silence is so deafening that it’s sickening," she said.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/unite...s-mutilation-murder-israeli-women-critics-say
Nov 30. A U.N. commission of inquiry investigating war crimes on both sides of the Israel-Hamas conflict will focus on sexual violence by Hamas in the Oct. 7 attacks on Israel and is about to launch an appeal for evidence, its chair told Reuters on Wednesday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...s-sexual-violence-appeal-evidence-2023-11-29/
Dec 6. Again, Israel call for UN investigation
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217668564/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence-oct-7
Dec 6. UN responds. Repeatedly they asked for access to investigate, with no response:
Meanwhile, Turk highlighted that Israel itself had not responded to his repeated requests for access to investigate the allegations independently.
'He stressed that for weeks he had "asked the Israeli authorities... to deploy a team, my team, to monitor, document, investigate the issues of the horrific attacks on Israelis".
"I've repeated this call and I hope it will be heard but so far, I haven't received a response."
'
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...ccess-for-hamas-sexual-violence-investigation
Dec 10. Israel's UN Ambassador Gilad Erdan calls the UN commission to investigate sexual crimes an “anti-semitic committee” that is “incapable of conducting a fair probe” and added, “Israel will not cooperate in any way with such a discriminatory and antisemitic body.”
https://www.foxnews.com/world/fury-...hamas-sexual-atrocities-against-israeli-women
Dec 12. A group of bipartisan US Senators call on the UN to investigate:
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4355607-senators-press-un-investigate-hamas-sexual-violence/
Jan 5. Volker writes that he has made repeated requests to the Israeli government for access
In an email to PassBlue on Jan. 5, the office of Volker Turk, the UN high commissioner for human rights (OHCHR), said that he had “made repeated requests, in writing and orally” for the Israeli government to grant access to enable his office “to undertake most effectively the tasks associated with [Turk’s] mandate — including comprehensive investigation of human rights violations that have taken place both in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory, notably from 7 October 2023 onwards.”
"his office said their requests “have not received response to date.”
https://www.passblue.com/2024/01/09/un-envoy-on-sexual-violence-in-conflict-to-visit-israel/#
Jan 16. Israel forbids doctors from speaking to UN group investigating gender based crimes on Oct 7
https://www.timesofisrael.com/gover...g-to-un-group-investigating-oct-7-atrocities/
If the evidence is abundantly clear, why would they refuse to cooperate with the UN in their investigation?
Israel call several times for the UN to investigate, describing their behaviour as 'sickening'. When their BS had been called out, the UN are 'antisemitic'. With so much evidence would they not even respond to access requests from the UN? Why would they forbid their doctors speaking to the UN?
There is more evidence of misinformation and just blatant lies from Israel. So there is too much inconsistency in their behaviour to ignore. Add to that, the evidence can be found neutrally.
To see a state act like a child in this way is itself a telling sign.
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That was a mistake, it was Israel Katz who said it.
Im not sure whether my ex girlfriend who contacted me 2 years later after we broke up and told me she had been raped ever would have forgiven me, if I had responded "that is weak evidence". Neither the women Ive met in life who have confided in me. Its not proof, but its merit as evidence, depends on the credibility of the victim, the accused and the occasion etc.
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Well, that makes a slight difference but not much more. It's still a pretty empty role in Netanyahu's govenment.
the families of the hostages storm the Knesset after Netanyahu rejected the deal.
There is no complexity at all. One people oppressed and the other are the oppressors.
relevant to the previous page discussion - hamas released a document claiming "faults" were made on ovt 7 due to the "speed of the collapse" of the border army
e - subsequent tweets seem to suggest they are open to a "fair and independent" investigation, possibly from the ICC
not sure how that will go for them!
...
e - subsequent tweets seem to suggest they are open to a "fair and independent" investigation, possibly from the ICC
not sure how that will go for them!
...
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You know her, so totally different.
You also wouldn't stake your freedom on her telling you that over the phone, then go kill the guy. You'd perhaps want him arrested and put in trial where evidence could be shown. The prosecution wouldn't rely on witness testimony alone FFS.
I'm sure you don't think so.
But seriously, surely Hamas and just about everyone in the world who has his head screwed in knew that what happened would not be good for the population in Gaza.
Kill, injury, destroy homes, force them to find shelter, etc.
It happened before in IDF operations which did not follow a massacre like October 7.
So If Hamas is a shit stain on the the underwear of humanity, my question is what would you call the IDF after 50 years of occupation and brutality?
Good post. The people that defend Israel refuse to talk about pre October 7th and how the British practically gave away a land that wasn't there's to give away to begin with.
Just curious. Who was the sovereign on the land the British “gave away”?
The Palestinians who were already living there ?
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I don't think they expected it to be this severe and to last for that long when they have over a hundred hostages. The whole argument is about the severity of the reaction which has led to Israel being on trial for genocide. No matter how awful they are, no one wants their people to face genocide and be ethnically cleansed from their land while it's getting destroyed. I think they believed the international pressure would stop it before it got to this stage which was their mistake.
Why not?
Israelis will probably start saying that it was Israelis that first invented bread made with animal feed.
So after Ottoman empire ceased to exist when exactly did this happen? On which conference/by which treaty the power of disposition transfered in this way?The Palestinians who were already living there ?
This doesn't surprise me. If you're familiar with the stop-antisemitism twitter account, it reguarly goes after people how say anything which they deem as vaguely anti-Semitic; often resulting in those exposed being sacked.
Seems like the IOF killed a few of their own soldiers again today.
Who is defending Israel's behaviour? But unless you have a time machine you can't uninvent the creation of the country.
I hadn't thought about this before now, but it's crazy to me that over 1% of Gaza's population is just gone. There is no way you can justify this being a solution to anything.
"The League of Nations decision to place Palestine under the administration of Great Britain as the Mandatory Power under the Mandates System adopted by the League. In principle, the Mandate was meant to be in the nature of a transitory phase until Palestine attained the status of a fully independent nation, a status provisionally recognized in the League’s Covenant, but in fact the Mandate’s historical evolution did not result in the emergence of Palestine as an independent nation.
The decision on the Mandate did not take into account the wishes of the people of Palestine, despite the Covenant’s requirements that “the wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory”. This assumed special significance because, almost five years before receiving the mandate from the League of Nations, the British Government had given commitments to the Zionist Organization regarding the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, for which Zionist leaders had pressed a claim of “historical connection” since their ancestors had lived in Palestine two thousand years earlier before dispersing in the “Diaspora”.
During the period of the Mandate, the Zionist Organization worked to secure the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. The indigenous people of Palestine, whose forefathers had inhabited the land for virtually the two preceding millennia felt this design to be a violation of their natural and inalienable rights. They also viewed it as an infringement of assurances of independence given by the Allied Powers to Arab leaders in return for their support during the war. The result was mounting resistance to the Mandate by Palestinian Arabs, followed by resort to violence by the Jewish community as the Second World War drew to a close.
After a quarter of a century of the Mandate, Great Britain submitted what had become “the Palestine problem” to the United Nations on the ground that the Mandatory Power was faced with conflicting obligations that had proved irreconcilable. At this point, when the United Nations itself was hardly two years old, violence ravaged Palestine. After investigating various alternatives the United Nations proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized. The partition plan did not bring peace to Palestine, and the prevailing violence spread into a Middle East war halted only by United Nations action. One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and, in a series of successive wars, its territorial control expanded to occupy all of Palestine. The Palestinian Arab State envisaged in the partition plan never appeared on the world’s map and, over the following 30 years, the Palestinian people have struggled for their lost rights"
Its not difficult to check the UN website.
That framing is problematic. UK students names it sound like a radicalisation programme at universities, which is contradicted by the article itself.
Of course you can't. My point was you can't also uninvent what happened before October 7th and act like events pre October 7th are irrelevant in the current conflict.
Who is doing that?
And pretty much everything is irrelevant at the moment, in that sense as Israel will not stop until they achieve whatever their ill defined objectives are (occupy the whole of the Gaza strip? Eliminate Hama?) and with an incompetent warmonger like Netanyahu in charge, and enough of the population of Israel enraged by the events on and since Oct 7th, pretty much nothing that is actually going to happen will stop that now. Which is as predictable as it is depressing.
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