Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

[matherto]

I hope we're about to get an R rated product but it still won't fix the glaring issues of modern day WWE.

They need to stick fireworks up the commentators backsides.

Yes it's another 'can we have the Attitude Era back' thing but the absolute biggest and best bit of that era was the commentary. It sounded like the most exciting thing in the world and the thing that mattered the most out of everything going on with the way they sold it and it started from the very beginning backed by the music and the crowd going mental straight away. I think the reason so many casual people got into it and it became mainstream entertainment was because it felt like you just couldn't miss it. Even now when you watch it back on the network you feel hyped from the get go and that's not just a nostalgia thing, it's like a direct line to the part of your brain that produces adrenaline because they're so excited about what might happen.

Nowadays it's all lethargic and everyone sounds bored as feck and it's way too nicey nicey. The wrestling and the storyline could be fantastic now but you can barely get into it because nobody on the selling side seems bothered about it and the crowd is dead too.

I get you'll probably never get JR + King's chemistry but at least try to sell the product you're promoting. It makes everything drag on forever so the only thing to get excited about is a good promo and there aren't many doing that.

I know it even came down to the camera angles and cuts used too so they need to change that as well.

Changing back to 2 hours might help the speed of everything but back then it felt like everything was going at a million miles an hour and it was amazing.

 

[Sylar]

I hope we're about to get an R rated product but it still won't fix the glaring issues of modern day WWE.

They need to stick fireworks up the commentators backsides.

Yes it's another 'can we have the Attitude Era back' thing but the absolute biggest and best bit of that era was the commentary. It sounded like the most exciting thing in the world and the thing that mattered the most out of everything going on with the way they sold it and it started from the very beginning backed by the music and the crowd going mental straight away. I think the reason so many casual people got into it and it became mainstream entertainment was because it felt like you just couldn't miss it. Even now when you watch it back on the network you feel hyped from the get go and that's not just a nostalgia thing, it's like a direct line to the part of your brain that produces adrenaline because they're so excited about what might happen.

Nowadays it's all lethargic and everyone sounds bored as feck and it's way too nicey nicey. The wrestling and the storyline could be fantastic now but you can barely get into it because nobody on the selling side seems bothered about it and the crowd is dead too.

I get you'll probably never get JR + King's chemistry but at least try to sell the product you're promoting. It makes everything drag on forever so the only thing to get excited about is a good promo and there aren't many doing that.

I know it even came down to the camera angles and cuts used too so they need to change that as well.

Changing back to 2 hours might help the speed of everything but back then it felt like everything was going at a million miles an hour and it was amazing.

Raw team is fine imo. I think Cole has been superb since Mcmahon basically left (and tbh he was good during the UK show with Nigel).
Think him and Wade are a good pairing (he was fantastic imo with mcafee)
SD apparently are getting rid of kevin patrick. I think thats a good move and overdue. He was better backstage as an interviewer.
I do wonder who they put next to Corey

 

[noodlehair]

The problem with Raw isn't its PG rating, its that its fecking boring and is also 3 hours long. You can miss it completely and pick up the next week and it literally wont matter.

Agree with Matherto on the commentary. When you watch Attitude era stuff back, JR and King are always part of the excitement of the show, and they really make it seem as though they have no idea what is going to happen and believe it is all real. Its dumb as hell but also works. Now days it sounds like they're either commentating on a game of golf or reading pre-prepared plot exposition and also have a timetable and transcript of the whole show in front of them.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the actual commentators though, its just a byproduct of the show being so slow paced and having almost no unpredictability or shock factor at all.

I'm not saying they should go back to every show being a crazy OTT soap opera like in the Attitude Era days, but they could at least add some unpredictability and drama in. Raw is 3 hours and sometimes you get 20 minute slots where quite literally nothing happens. Or 3 separate add breaks in between a wrestler making their way to the ring and a match starting....and then the match goes on 30 minutes and absolutely nothing of note happens and then it ends, never to be remembered by anyone ever again. That's nearly a whole hour gone on absolutely nothing. Every segment is pre-advertised so the whole show tells you what is going to happen and when from the off.

That's the stuff that needs to change IMO. I don't care if there's swearing or if someone blades their face during a pretend fight. What made me watch back in the day was the not knowing what was going to happen this week and wanting to find out. Now you know what is going to happen and don't need to find out, because its either nothing or something they hint at or advertise to absolute death both before and during the show to the point it loses all purpose.

 

[Stevondo8]

The problem with Raw isn't its PG rating, its that its fecking boring and is also 3 hours long. You can miss it completely and pick up the next week and it literally wont matter.

Agree with Matherto on the commentary. When you watch Attitude era stuff back, JR and King are always part of the excitement of the show, and they really make it seem as though they have no idea what is going to happen and believe it is all real. Its dumb as hell but also works. Now days it sounds like they're either commentating on a game of golf or reading pre-prepared plot exposition and also have a timetable and transcript of the whole show in front of them.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the actual commentators though, its just a byproduct of the show being so slow paced and having almost no unpredictability or shock factor at all.

I'm not saying they should go back to every show being a crazy OTT soap opera like in the Attitude Era days, but they could at least add some unpredictability and drama in. Raw is 3 hours and sometimes you get 20 minute slots where quite literally nothing happens. Or 3 separate add breaks in between a wrestler making their way to the ring and a match starting....and then the match goes on 30 minutes and absolutely nothing of note happens and then it ends, never to be remembered by anyone ever again. That's nearly a whole hour gone on absolutely nothing. Every segment is pre-advertised so the whole show tells you what is going to happen and when from the off.

That's the stuff that needs to change IMO. I don't care if there's swearing or if someone blades their face during a pretend fight. What made me watch back in the day was the not knowing what was going to happen this week and wanting to find out. Now you know what is going to happen and don't need to find out, because its either nothing or something they hint at or advertise to absolute death both before and during the show to the point it loses all purpose.

I may be mis-remembering or making it up, but isn’t there a quote from King saying he genuinely didn’t know what was going to happen, or didn’t like to know usually so his reactions were more genuine?

watching back some attitude era/period I watched religiously (probably 98 until about 2004 maybe…I’m surprised how much commentary Cole did back then.

 

[cyberman]

I hope we're about to get an R rated product but it still won't fix the glaring issues of modern day WWE.

They need to stick fireworks up the commentators backsides.

Yes it's another 'can we have the Attitude Era back' thing but the absolute biggest and best bit of that era was the commentary. It sounded like the most exciting thing in the world and the thing that mattered the most out of everything going on with the way they sold it and it started from the very beginning backed by the music and the crowd going mental straight away. I think the reason so many casual people got into it and it became mainstream entertainment was because it felt like you just couldn't miss it. Even now when you watch it back on the network you feel hyped from the get go and that's not just a nostalgia thing, it's like a direct line to the part of your brain that produces adrenaline because they're so excited about what might happen.

Nowadays it's all lethargic and everyone sounds bored as feck and it's way too nicey nicey. The wrestling and the storyline could be fantastic now but you can barely get into it because nobody on the selling side seems bothered about it and the crowd is dead too.

I get you'll probably never get JR + King's chemistry but at least try to sell the product you're promoting. It makes everything drag on forever so the only thing to get excited about is a good promo and there aren't many doing that.

I know it even came down to the camera angles and cuts used too so they need to change that as well.

Changing back to 2 hours might help the speed of everything but back then it felt like everything was going at a million miles an hour and it was amazing.

There’s no real issues, it just sounds like WWE isn’t for you and that’s ok. I’ve given up on it myself but to think the product has to change when they just completed 3 months of selling three brands rights fees for almost 1b collectively a year didn’t make sense. The rest of the world isn’t thinking this so why would they change and would it then even be a problem?

 

[noodlehair]

I may be mis-remembering or making it up, but isn’t there a quote from King saying he genuinely didn’t know what was going to happen, or didn’t like to know usually so his reactions were more genuine?

watching back some attitude era/period I watched religiously (probably 98 until about 2004 maybe…I’m surprised how much commentary Cole did back then.

I do remember that. I thought it was JR not King but you could be right.

Cole used to stand in for JR quite a bit. Or there was that time JR got "fired" so had his own commentary table built while the show was going on, in front of the actual commentary table, and then sat there commentating over Cole and King

I miss this kind of random Attitude Era insanity, even if the actual wrestling was mostly shite.

I've been working my way through it as background wfh or exercise viewing on the network. RAW for majority of 1999 was gold. Genuinely juat seemed like random off the cuff chaos. Don't think it'd work now as wrestling fans seem to be more focused on the actual wrestling quality...but the show is an extra hour in length so there is kind of room for a bit of both. The Bloodline stuff on Smackdown was good while it lasted but it was still one pre-advertised segment per show.

 

[matherto]

There’s no real issues, it just sounds like WWE isn’t for you and that’s ok. I’ve given up on it myself but to think the product has to change when they just completed 3 months of selling three brands rights fees for almost 1b collectively a year didn’t make sense. The rest of the world isn’t thinking this so why would they change and would it then even be a problem?

Oh I fully agree they don't need to change from a business perspective. For every one person moaning about things they've got hundreds or thousands willing to watch and enjoy it and more power to them.

It's just felt like there's a malaise over the whole thing that they could recapture just by watching a few episodes of Raw is War themselves and thinking 'let's aim for that' and it's been that way for so long.

And it just has to be the commentary really. Everything else about the product is probably completely fine and it's sure as hell less botchy than it was back then so actual wrestling is probably better than ever but it's just stupidly hard for me to get excited because of the words I'm hearing and the way they're delivered.

Prime JR and King could be commentating on paint drying and I'd wanna see more of it because they could sell shit on a shovel convicingly. It's mindblowing how compelling they made absolutely everything considering it's a scripted pantomime and the same things happen each week. It's more polished than it's ever been these days but that's to it's detriment. The 'attitude' of the Attitude Era really is exactly that. Makes you wanna see blood and people tearing each other limb from limb. It's supposed to be a fight so why doesn't it sound like it's a fight?

I dip in for Royal Rumble and try and keep up until Mania and then that's it really. I'm absolutely aware of rose-tinted glasses and the effect of nostalgia but somehow it's still so utterly compelling watching 1998-2002 even with all the caveats of how much garbage they managed to put out like ruining the Invasion angle and Mae Young's hand and so on. Even the pits of back then were made thrilling, like lightning in a bottle.

I guess society has changed too. The 90's were feckin' wild when you watch stuff back, there was such an edge to everything. The 18-39 demographic don't appear to be as bloodthirsty as they once were so the crowds will never return to the absolute dynamite that it was.


This just gets my juices flowing, it's testosterone TV. They feel like festival crowds more than anything.

Absolutely sound like a old fart complaining that things aren't the way they used to be I know.

 

[cyberman]

Oh I fully agree they don't need to change from a business perspective. For every one person moaning about things they've got hundreds or thousands willing to watch and enjoy it and more power to them.

It's just felt like there's a malaise over the whole thing that they could recapture just by watching a few episodes of Raw is War themselves and thinking 'let's aim for that' and it's been that way for so long.

And it just has to be the commentary really. Everything else about the product is probably completely fine and it's sure as hell less botchy than it was back then so actual wrestling is probably better than ever but it's just stupidly hard for me to get excited because of the words I'm hearing and the way they're delivered.

Prime JR and King could be commentating on paint drying and I'd wanna see more of it because they could sell shit on a shovel convicingly. It's mindblowing how compelling they made absolutely everything considering it's a scripted pantomime and the same things happen each week. It's more polished than it's ever been these days but that's to it's detriment. The 'attitude' of the Attitude Era really is exactly that. Makes you wanna see blood and people tearing each other limb from limb. It's supposed to be a fight so why doesn't it sound like it's a fight?

I dip in for Royal Rumble and try and keep up until Mania and then that's it really. I'm absolutely aware of rose-tinted glasses and the effect of nostalgia but somehow it's still so utterly compelling watching 1998-2002 even with all the caveats of how much garbage they managed to put out like ruining the Invasion angle and Mae Young's hand and so on. Even the pits of back then were made thrilling, like lightning in a bottle.

I guess society has changed too. The 90's were feckin' wild when you watch stuff back, there was such an edge to everything. The 18-39 demographic don't appear to be as bloodthirsty as they once were so the crowds will never return to the absolute dynamite that it was.


This just gets my juices flowing, it's testosterone TV. They feel like festival crowds more than anything.

Absolutely sound like a old fart complaining that things aren't the way they used to be I know.

But it’s not just the 90s, it was like a 3 year period at the end of the 90s. When older fans like ourselves say we wish they got back to what they used to do, we don’t realise it’s such a small window in time which means that time was an anomaly. From now all the way back to the beginning of the golden age it’s been 99 percent of what we’re seeing now and a small fraction of absolute madness and carnage.
As good as the AE was, it still moved quickly past that when these stars were still in their prime. Stone Cold became heel and nobody remembers much of Rocks run near the end before he became Hollywood Rock for a few months for good reason. It burned everyone out

 

[matherto]

But it’s not just the 90s, it was like a 3 year period at the end of the 90s. When older fans like ourselves say we wish they got back to what they used to do, we don’t realise it’s such a small window in time which means that time was an anomaly. From now all the way back to the beginning of the golden age it’s been 99 percent of what we’re seeing now and a small fraction of absolute madness and carnage.
As good as the AE was, it still moved quickly past that when these stars were still in their prime. Stone Cold became heel and nobody remembers much of Rocks run near the end before he became Hollywood Rock for a few months for good reason. It burned everyone out

I suppose that's just a fact of life though isn't it, a light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

They hit it hard cause they had to to beat WCW and then they couldn't sustain it (Ruthless Agression wasn't bad tbf).

 

[noodlehair]

But it’s not just the 90s, it was like a 3 year period at the end of the 90s. When older fans like ourselves say we wish they got back to what they used to do, we don’t realise it’s such a small window in time which means that time was an anomaly. From now all the way back to the beginning of the golden age it’s been 99 percent of what we’re seeing now and a small fraction of absolute madness and carnage.
As good as the AE was, it still moved quickly past that when these stars were still in their prime. Stone Cold became heel and nobody remembers much of Rocks run near the end before he became Hollywood Rock for a few months for good reason. It burned everyone out

This is a very good point...part of the problem was a lot of it in terms of the success carried off the back of The Rock and Austin being such big stars, and after a while they just started to become stale...and its not like you could just replace them with someone of the same mold because then you jump right back into the same problem. The same probably applied to the brand as a whole.

Also the whole face characters who behave like massive arseholes thing would be very difficult to pull off now, and that's a big part of what made it so entertaining.

 

[Zen]

Vince and likely Brock - absolutely done.

https://archive.ph/t5H3A

 

[gormless]

Vince and likely Brock - absolutely done.

https://archive.ph/t5H3A

Link won’t load. Assume it’s the new Vince allegations.Vince named dildos after wrestlers apparently

 

[Holocene]

That was a horrifying read. If the allegations are true, I wonder how many people knew this was going on inside WWE.

 

[Shane88]

"He forcefully used sex toys on her, including dildos he named after WWE wrestlers, causing her bruising and bleeding, the suit said."

"In a May 2020 encounter, McMahon defecated on her head during a threesome, the suit said."

"McMahon recruited people to have sex with Grant as well, including WWE’s former head of talent relations, John Laurinaitis, who is named as a defendant in the suit."

"the suit said McMahon and Laurinaitis forced themselves on her and took turns restraining her for the other, while saying “No means yes” and “Take it, b—.”

"The suit said McMahon shared the explicit photos with the star (Brock Lesnar) and informed Grant that “he likes what he sees.” After the star agreed to a new WWE contract, McMahon texted Grant in August 2021 to say “that part of the deal was f—ing U.”

Euthanise the old cnut.

 

[SalfordRed18]

The cynic in me believes the timing of this is no accident. He's played the role needed in securing a new deal, now feck off. Preferably to jail.

 

[cyberman]

I’ve read it once (never again) and I can’t see what Brock has done wrong bar being quoted by Vince and having an excuse not to meet up? To me that genuinely looks like Vince catfished with Brock imo

 

[Shane88]

The cynic in me believes the timing of this is no accident. He's played the role needed in securing a new deal, now feck off. Preferably to jail.

There was UFC emails leaked recently and they sound like ruthless dickheads in them so I'd believe that.

Court filings with screenshots.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.157647/gov.uscourts.ctd.157647.1.0.pdf

 

[Ekeke]

Vince is a monster. Worse than what I expected from just that account alone and remember this is just what we know, from one whistle blower about their experience within the past several years. Its extremely likely he's been doing this sort of thing for a long, long time. I knew he would be getting away with horrible stuff and the viewers were looking the other way in spite of already horrible stuff that came out in the past, but its scary how protected he's been for so long. Who knows who else in his former position we might be hearing about in 15 years...

I'm sad to say I doubt that this will cancel Brock either. Steve Austin beat his wife and when he returns he gets a loud pop

 

[cyberman]

Just read the Vince was role playing as Brock during sex is included in the law suit.
The entire thing reads as an AI generated nightmare

 

[TMDaines]

None of this is any real surprise and is all part of why I long since grew tired of WWE. It’s been obvious he is a deeply problematic individual hiding in plain-sight for years now.

McMahon was always embarrassed by his association with wrestling, yet most of wrestling is now entirely embarrassed of its association with McMahon.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

No surprise he's besties with ol' Trump is it. Seriously how jaded do you have to be with life to do some of the stuff alleged there. Twisted old cnut. Don't believe for one second that people didn't know what was going on either.

 

[TheGame]

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[TMDaines]

It’s like reading the CR7 papers again:

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[Castia]

He should be in jail dirty fecker

 

[JP77]

Not sure how I feel about the Netflix deal. As long as they take the entire library over then it should be okay, absolutely gutting if they don’t. Will be interesting to see how they market and put across all of it if they do put the entire library on there.

PPV’s is definitely a big issue though. Does anybody really want to be paying for these when we’ve just spent this amount of time getting them free with the network?

 

[SalfordRed18]

Not sure how I feel about the Netflix deal. As long as they take the entire library over then it should be okay, absolutely gutting if they don’t. Will be interesting to see how they market and put across all of it if they do put the entire library on there.

PPV’s is definitely a big issue though. Does anybody really want to be paying for these when we’ve just spent this amount of time getting them free with the network?

Have they said they're going back to the ppv model?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

These Vince allegations are aboslutely horrific, but in no way unsurprising or shocking.

WWE and TKO need to distance themselves from him ASAP, if not just fully throw him to the wolves.

 

[StamsShinyHead]

These Vince allegations are aboslutely horrific, but in no way unsurprising or shocking.

WWE and TKO need to distance themselves from him ASAP, if not just fully throw him to the wolves.

It really feels like this will be the tip of the iceberg. If this is only from recent years, what other horrors has he gotten away with in the past?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It really feels like this will be the tip of the iceberg. If this is only from recent years, what other horrors has he gotten away with in the past?

Yeah you have to genuinely worry about what other horrible shit the man has done, that will probably never come to light.

You also wonder which wrestlers we all know and loved got roped into it all at some point - above and beyond Brock.

 

[Sylar]

It really feels like this will be the tip of the iceberg. If this is only from recent years, what other horrors has he gotten away with in the past?

This is probably not even top 10 bad things hes done.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

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[Ekeke]

It’s like reading the CR7 papers again:

Not even close. Closer to Epstein and Weinstein

 

[TheGame]

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[Berbasbullet]

Eurgh Vince’s theme song just got more sinister.

 

[Castia]

Hyped for the rumble im not letting that little old creep ruin this event

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The Rumble should honestly start with Trips in the ring saying feck Vince and feck the old regime.

 

[cyberman]

The Rumble should honestly start with Trips in the ring saying feck Vince and feck the old regime.

To be fair he probably wants to. They’ve been trying to get rid of him for over a year now

 

[TheReligion]

WWE is finished. Sickening

 

[TheGame]

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[LordSpud]

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Absolutely mad what's happened to the company. Anyone who follows on the UKFF forum will know the stories of Vince and the old boys going all the way back to the 80s but was always swept under the carpet.

To see this wrong'un get his comeuppance is wonderful, really need to get rid of Triple H now and proper start again. Fun fact this is now the first time that NO McMahon is working for/with the company (another reason to cut HHH)