VAR and Refs | General Discussion

[TheMagicFoolBus]

That makes sense, but kind of makes it weirder that he was deemed active but his actions were not significant enough to be a foul and you hardly ever get done for being active unless you're right in the keeper's face and even then, hardly ever. He took the defender's attention granted, but seems like they were levelling up the really tight offside goal, which they didn't show the lines for dodgily.

I hate complex or stupid rules that need explaining, eg when that Middlesbrough player in the FA cup did a blatant handball but wasn't penalised cos he crossed it for the goal, rather than scored himself.

He did more than take the defender's attention, he physically blocked him from marking Van Dijk who wound up scoring. Again, not to the extent that it'd ever be a foul, but Endo literally never even looked at the ball and was purely there to obstruct - but by definition this makes him involved in the play and it's therefore offside.

Don't think this was a make-up call - honestly would prefer that this sort of thing be legislated properly, especially as Man City especially have made it a feature of their set pieces.

 

[Dumbstar]

He did more than take the defender's attention, he physically blocked him from marking Van Dijk who wound up scoring. Again, not to the extent that it'd ever be a foul, but Endo literally never even looked at the ball and was purely there to obstruct - but by definition this makes him involved in the play and it's therefore offside.

Don't think this was a make-up call - honestly would prefer that this sort of thing be legislated properly, especially as Man City especially have made it a feature of their set pieces.

This sort of decision has been looked at, or given, exactly zero times before Liverpool were involved and will be given exactly zero times after this game. Unless Liverpool are to be punished for it again of course.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

This sort of decision has been looked at, or given, exactly zero times before Liverpool were involved and will be given exactly zero times after this game. Unless Liverpool are to be punished for it again of course.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...anchester-united-varane-goal-burnley-23031921

Yeah sorry but you are entirely incorrect

 

[Bubz27]

This sort of decision has been looked at, or given, exactly zero times before Liverpool were involved and will be given exactly zero times after this game. Unless Liverpool are to be punished for it again of course.

Varane had one against Burnley and and McTominay against Fulham.
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man...ar-offside-premier-league/bltc63376ceb4240825

Both Maguire in an offside position, coincidentally. Or not, the lazy feck.

 

[Dumbstar]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...anchester-united-varane-goal-burnley-23031921

Yeah sorry but you are entirely incorrect

I'd need to see the video. Will look for it online.

Edit: if Maguire held his ground then he wouldn't have blocked Jay. It would be up to Jay to go around him. Maguire steps into Jay throwing him off. Endo held his ground, arms down, no movement left or right. Colville should have gone around him.

But I can see the decision was based on similar grounds so I stand corrected there. I'd like to see numerous Man City and Arsenal goals ruled out from now on. This is their primary set pieces tactic.

 

[Desert Eagle]

How does it look onside?

Did you see how they determined that or were you looking at a standard replay, which to your eye can make a player look further ahead or behind than they actually are due to perspective distortion?

Sequence in question starts at 1:40 in the clip. Apparently there was an offside 10 seconds earlier according to some comments on the youtube but nothing in the clip was offside.

 

[Pexbo]

The Maguire one was far more tenuous. It was more a case of him distracting the defender. Endo literally steps into him to obstruct him all the while only ever looking at the player rather than the ball.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I'd need to see the video. Will look for it online.

Edit: if Maguire held his ground then he wouldn't have blocked Jay. It would be up to Jay to go around him. Maguire steps into Jay throwing him off. Endo held his ground, arms down, no movement left or right. Colville should have gone around him.

But I can see the decision was based on similar grounds so I stand corrected there. I'd like to see numerous Man City and Arsenal goals ruled out from now on. This is their primary set pieces tactic.

I think if Endo had made any sort of effort to even look at the ball you'd have a better case - he was pretty obviously focused on getting in Colwill's way.

Agree fully with the bolded.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Varane had one against Burnley and and McTominay against Fulham.
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man...ar-offside-premier-league/bltc63376ceb4240825

Both Maguire in an offside position, coincidentally. Or not, the lazy feck.

Wasnt the one ruled out against Burnley scored by Jonny Evans?

 

[Bubz27]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...anchester-united-varane-goal-burnley-23031921

Yeah sorry but you are entirely incorrect

Wasnt the one ruled out against Burnley scored by Jonny Evans?

 

[RedRocket9908]

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/va...rnley-nathan-ake/blt65877583f83f0bd9#:~:text=' - Man Utd fans fume %26 even claim a conspiracy as,Nathan Ake effort is allowed&text=Jonny Evans thought he had,out after a VAR review.

 

[Oranges038]

Two questions about the goals disallowed yesterday.

Did they show the lines for the call on Chelsea's goal being offside? I didn't see them and it looked very tight.

Why didn't they just give the Enzo block as a foul rather than offside, which seemed way more complicated rules-wise?

I saw this from twitter. The problem with this screenshot is you can clearly see the ball is in already leaving Palmer's foot by the motion blur. So this still doesn't make it offside when the ball was first hit.

Tweet

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On the other side you get shown this angle with lines, but cannot see the point of contact with the ball and he really doesn't look off from that angle.

Then on TV they showed the wider /higher angle that later at some point. They included that angle on ref watch with everyone's favourite former referee today, he looks off from that point of view.

 

[Jippy]

I saw this from twitter. The problem with this screenshot is you can clearly see the ball is in already leaving Palmer's foot by the motion blur. So this still doesn't make it offside when the ball was first hit.

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On the other side you get shown this angle with lines, but cannot see the point of contact with the ball and he really doesn't look off from that angle.

Then on TV they showed the wider /higher angle that later at some point. They included that angle on ref watch with everyone's favourite former referee today, he looks off from that point of view.

Thanks- didn't say ref watch cos I had to go to bed when ET started. Still looks damn close in that bottom right pic.

 

[Powderfinger]

I'd need to see the video. Will look for it online.

Edit: if Maguire held his ground then he wouldn't have blocked Jay. It would be up to Jay to go around him. Maguire steps into Jay throwing him off. Endo held his ground, arms down, no movement left or right. Colville should have gone around him.

But I can see the decision was based on similar grounds so I stand corrected there. I'd like to see numerous Man City and Arsenal goals ruled out from now on. This is their primary set pieces tactic.

Many teams do this but the whole point is that you start from an offside position so that you have freedom of movement and the defenders don't know where you're going to end up but then you jump back onside prior to the actual kick.

Endo just screwed up the timing. Its really that simple.

 

[Bubz27]

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/va...rnley-nathan-ake/blt65877583f83f0bd9#:~:text=' - Man Utd fans fume %26 even claim a conspiracy as,Nathan Ake effort is allowed&text=Jonny Evans thought he had,out after a VAR review.

Oh yeah, that's another one then.

 

[Withnail]

Sequence in question starts at 1:40 in the clip. Apparently there was an offside 10 seconds earlier according to some comments on the youtube but nothing in the clip was offside.

Bit weird they don't show the proof.

One of the top comments said it was Carasquilla earlier on in the move who was offside but that section isn't shown in the highlights.

 

[Pexbo]

I saw this from twitter. The problem with this screenshot is you can clearly see the ball is in already leaving Palmer's foot by the motion blur. So this still doesn't make it offside when the ball was first hit.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

On the other side you get shown this angle with lines, but cannot see the point of contact with the ball and he really doesn't look off from that angle.

Then on TV they showed the wider /higher angle that later at some point. They included that angle on ref watch with everyone's favourite former referee today, he looks off from that point of view.

The top one is disingenuous because not only is it behind the player but it’s also the last frame when the ball is leaving the players foot rather than the first frame when contact is made which makes a big difference

 

[padr81]

The top one is disingenuous because not only is it behind the player but it’s also the last frame when the ball is leaving the players foot rather than the first frame when contact is made which makes a big difference

It also looks really tight to being off in that top one, so I don't know how folk with any understanding of perspective can say that's clearly on.

 

[Oranges038]

The top one is disingenuous because not only is it behind the player but it’s also the last frame when the ball is leaving the players foot rather than the first frame when contact is made which makes a big difference

Yeah, but you see this a lot with these calls, once you can see the motion blur on the ball then the ball is already in motion, players can move a a couple of feet either way in a fraction of a second, add in an angle like that and it's easy to pick and choose a still image to make it look more offside.

Thanks- didn't say ref watch cos I had to go to bed when ET started. Still looks damn close in that bottom right pic.

The wider angle on this clip shows that he is just about offside without the need for lines.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...m-premier-league?postid=7291380#liveblog-body

 

[arnie_ni]

That makes sense, but kind of makes it weirder that he was deemed active but his actions were not significant enough to be a foul and you hardly ever get done for being active unless you're right in the keeper's face and even then, hardly ever. He took the defender's attention granted, but seems like they were levelling up the really tight offside goal, which they didn't show the lines for dodgily.

I hate complex or stupid rules that need explaining, eg when that Middlesbrough player in the FA cup did a blatant handball but wasn't penalised cos he crossed it for the goal, rather than scored himself.

We got this decision against Aston villa a year or 2 ago when maguire was blocked.

Offside was given then as well.

 

[Jippy]

Yeah, but you see this a lot with these calls, once you can see the motion blur on the ball then the ball is already in motion, players can move a a couple of feet either way in a fraction of a second, add in an angle like that and it's easy to pick and choose a still image to make it look more offside.





The wider angle on this clip shows that he is just about offside without the need for lines.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...m-premier-league?postid=7291380#liveblog-body

Urgh, link not working for me but fair enough.

We got this decision against Aston villa a year or 2 ago when maguire was blocked.

Offside was given then as well.

Yeah I need to dig that clip out cos it's been referenced a few times but is only a hazy blur in my sieve memory.

 

[RedRocket9908]

How on earth did the Sky presenter look at this challenge from Harry Maguire and feel the ball was long gone? There is litterally only a split second between the Fulhsm player playing the ball and Harry making contact

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Here is Dermot's view of the Sheff Utd incident

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[Alex99]

How on earth did the Sky presenter look at this challenge from Harry Maguire and feel the ball was long gone? There is litterally only a split second between the Fulhsm player playing the ball and Harry making contact

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Here is Dermot's view of the Sheff Utd incident

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Because "Manchester United getting away with murder" is always a story.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

How on earth did the Sky presenter look at this challenge from Harry Maguire and feel the ball was long gone? There is litterally only a split second between the Fulhsm player playing the ball and Harry making contact

Tweet

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Here is Dermot's view of the Sheff Utd incident

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You can just tell the presenter was hoping Warnock thought the Maguire challenge was a red. Instead they were all in agreement it was a yellow and left him looking like a right mug.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Dermott on VVD's goal being ruled out

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[erikcred]

Dermott on VVD's goal being ruled out

It's Dermot Gallagher. If the ref had given Chelsea a penalty for what Endo did in Chelsea's box, Gallagher would find a way to explain it. If Maguire received a red against Fulham, you can bet your life that you'll be watching the same person confidently explain why it was a textbook red.

 

[The Purley King]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52416192

The video in this article is insane. I had read this was a fiery game, but its the first time I've seen some of the tackles. Different game back then!

 

[Pexbo]

Can someone explain that one to me?

 

[Samid]

Can someone explain that one to me?

Mark Clattenburg: Ex-Premier League official's referee analyst role at Nottingham Forest explained
Nottingham Forest have appointed Mark Clattenburg as a referee analyst; the 48-year-old will be available for advice should Forest boss Nuno Espirito Santo want to consult him on specific issues

 

[Berbasbullet]

Neh not a pen for me that one.

 

[SilentWitness]

Can someone explain that one to me?

For some reason shoulder barges aren't seen as penalties even though there is no attempt to play the ball. It's baffling.

 

[brother ant]

For some reason shoulder barges aren't seen as penalties even though there is no attempt to play the ball. It's baffling.

Outside the box that is given as foul

 

[Pexbo]

Mark Clattenburg: Ex-Premier League official's referee analyst role at Nottingham Forest explained
Nottingham Forest have appointed Mark Clattenburg as a referee analyst; the 48-year-old will be available for advice should Forest boss Nuno Espirito Santo want to consult him on specific issues

Thanks mate. Nice he’s in his official role with Forest sitting with the head of PGMOL.

 

[El Zoido]

Neh not a pen for me that one.

He absolutely cleans Rashford out without even trying to play the ball.

 

[Berbasbullet]

He absolutely cleans Rashford out without even trying to play the ball.

It was shoulder to shoulder wasn’t it? I just don’t think it was enough to warrant a pen this time.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It's frankly embarrassing that people are up in arms about that decision. Nothing in it.

 

[El Zoido]

It was shoulder to shoulder wasn’t it? I just don’t think it was enough to warrant a pen this time.

No, he runs full steam in to him and wipes him out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/tyT1stb4Co

 

[Berbaclass]

No, he runs full steam in to him and wipes him out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/tyT1stb4Co

It's shoulder to shoulder when they make contact, no push from the forest player he's just stronger and Rashford went down.

Nothing challenge, happens 10-20 times a game.

 

[El Zoido]

It's shoulder to shoulder when they make contact, no push from the forest player he's just stronger and Rashford went down.

Nothing challenge, happens 10-20 times a game.

Still frame doesn’t show momentum. A bullet looks like it’s rubbing someone if you take the photo at the right time..

 

[Berbaclass]

Still frame doesn’t show momentum. A bullet looks like it’s rubbing someone if you take the photo at the right time..

That's showing it's direct shoulder on shoulder contact. Clean challenge. You don't really need to see anything else..