Shane88
Actually Nostradamus
Poor Zhang has fallen apart.
Problems with his mental health which took priority for a while.I’m a very casual snooker follower and only really watch the major tournaments
What happened to Mark Selby? He was winning absolutely everything at one point
Selby is a great player, but he can be a tough watch, particularly when chasing four snookers for an hour and that kind of stuff.Problems with his mental health which took priority for a while.
But also patchy form when he does play - one moment he looks unstoppable (6-0 v Ronnie) and the next he's losing to an equally patchy Zhang, despite having all the momentum going in to the final frame decider including a century.
He gets a lot of stick, mainly from idiotic Ronnie obsessives who think everyone should play five shots per minute. Snooker tournaments will be a much nicer thing to attend once he retires and they're out of the audience.
But there's no doubting his class, his Crucible record is one of the best out there - four titles and twice each runner-up and a losing semi-finalist.
Just on the final itself last night the quality really was dire, only three breaks over 50 in the evening session, out of ten frames.
Zhang needed to win to push Ali Carter out of the top eight and get in to the Tour Championship places, there is now only one ranking event left before it.
Is that a bad thing?It feels like O'Sullivan definitely does things like this on purpose to make a point - to show his disdain of smaller British events with limited prize money and facilities, and so to stick two fingers up at the Snooker bosses.
Your obsession with Ronnie is just weird.Problems with his mental health which took priority for a while.
I think so, yeah.Is that a bad thing?
Did you get out of bed the wrong side this morningYour obsession with Ronnie is just weird.
It's funny how you can say Selby has mental health issues, yet completely ignore O'Sullivan's. This guy was a champion at the youngest age, and has carried the whole game on his back for his whole life.
Yeah, let's see what happens when he retires...Let's see what happens to the crowds.
That’s all well and good for you as a fan but these players have got to make a living. I know the top players are all millionaires but those scraping the 32 are barely getting by once they pay for travel and overheads. For all the stick Ronnie gets for his actions he’s often trying highlight just how absurdly the professional players are treated when there is millions and millions in flooding into the game through betting sponsors.I think so, yeah.
If the US were looking to take over Snooker and move most tournaments there, I'd say many UK based fans wouldn't be happy with the 'Americanisation' of the Sport. I feel the same about the Chinese and Saudi Arabian money buying tournaments to the point that players are more interested in attending exhibition games there rather than tournaments here.
I've been a Snooker fan most of my life and was very happy with how it was all that time. I didn't want it to change much at all. I certainly don't want it to pretty much just become an Asian based and dominated Sport, which is the way it's heading and O'Sullivan seems to be one of the most vocal people pushing for it. And antics like today's is done on purpose to make a point about it.
I can certainly see why the players want more and more money - same as anyone does. But for me as a UK based fan, I don't want the sport sold to China and Saudi Arabia and have it mostly based their instead, played at inconvenient time zones (for us), and impossible to attend, etc.
I get your point. And I did say I understand why the players would want it - money. Lots of it.That’s all well and good for you as a fan but these players have got to make a living. I know the top players are all millionaires but those scraping the 32 are barely getting by once they pay for travel and overheads. For all the stick Ronnie gets for his actions he’s often trying highlight just how absurdly the professional players are treated when there is millions and millions in flooding into the game through betting sponsors.
Little bitDid you get out of bed the wrong side this morning
Yep. Snooker has been run badly for years, and whilst I agree with @Bertie Wooster about changing the game itself, that's not what needs to happen. For a start they could put much more effort into promotion of the game and events, you hardly see it anywhere as a casual.That’s all well and good for you as a fan but these players have got to make a living. I know the top players are all millionaires but those scraping the 32 are barely getting by once they pay for travel and overheads. For all the stick Ronnie gets for his actions he’s often trying highlight just how absurdly the professional players are treated when there is millions and millions in flooding into the game through betting sponsors.
You would have "lost" it years ago if we kept it to little England.and will soon be another thing that feels like I've 'lost' when it just becomes an Asian based and dominated sport.
I do agree with you to a certain extent about how snooker is run.Little bit
Yep. Snooker has been run badly for years, and whilst I agree with @Bertie Wooster about changing the game itself, that's not what needs to happen. For a start they could put much more effort into promotion of the game and events, you hardly see it anywhere as a casual.
Ronnie is right to stick up for the players and moan about the way it's run. When he does finally retire, the game is 100% going to take a dip so him speaking out now and trying to get them to think about the future can only be a good thing imo.
You would have "lost" it years ago if we kept it to little England.
And Ronnie has addressed the lack of young players coming through too. That's a far bigger threat to what you want than anything else.
It's part of the seniors tour - so the likes of Jimmy White, Ken Doherty, Stephen Hendry...What’s this Snooker 900 business
Thanks for taking the time to explain.It's part of the seniors tour - so the likes of Jimmy White, Ken Doherty, Stephen Hendry...
And the name stems from the fact each frame lasts a maximum of 15 minutes (900 seconds). There's also a 20 second shot clock.
More and more tournaments (and sports in general) seem to need - or feel the need - for more formats with gimmicks, rather than just stick to the established format. But it makes more sense when it's something like this rather than the main Tour.
Is that the one where they let in the louts that shout out drivel in between shots?It's part of the seniors tour - so the likes of Jimmy White, Ken Doherty, Stephen Hendry...
And the name stems from the fact each frame lasts a maximum of 15 minutes (900 seconds). There's also a 20 second shot clock.
More and more tournaments (and sports in general) seem to need - or feel the need - for more formats with gimmicks, rather than just stick to the established format. But it makes more sense when it's something like this rather than the main Tour.
Yeah you're thinking of the Shootout where it's one frame per match and they have a shot clock of 15 seconds (turns to 10 seconds near the end).Is that the one where they let in the louts that shout out drivel in between shots?
It's played in a less formal atmosphere compared to 'proper' Snooker, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Shoot-out crowd on the Main Tour.Is that the one where they let in the louts that shout out drivel in between shots?
They need to learn from Cricket and I think they are. Introduce more exciting formats for the average viewer and leave “Test” Snooker the feck alone.Yeah you're thinking of the Shootout where it's one frame per match and they have a shot clock of 15 seconds (turns to 10 seconds near the end).
To be fair, that particular tournament probably wouldn't work with totally quiet crowds but you do get some idiots shouting random stuff as more and more beer is consumed!
All of the other traditional multi-frame tournaments will eventually be subject to tweaks, I think at some point a one-minute shot clock will come in - that might sound a lot but a lot of players go over it. I appreciate they have to get the long stuff out at times for tricky shots but as with pool you can have one or two extensions per player per frame.
I love the format of the World Championship and the final being four sessions over two days, first to 18 - but modern sport is moving away from that, look at Bazball; great to watch but it will kill five day cricket.
Would it be harsh to say that the new generation of sports fans don't have the attention span anymore? Back in the late 80s when my dad was taking me to the Assembly Rooms in Derby for the snooker there were no phones, tables, online console gaming or anything like that but I think these days it's very different. People seem to have so much they think they need to do that things like live sport can't take up as much of their time!
I see your point and you are probably right regarding current attention spans.Yeah you're thinking of the Shootout where it's one frame per match and they have a shot clock of 15 seconds (turns to 10 seconds near the end).
To be fair, that particular tournament probably wouldn't work with totally quiet crowds but you do get some idiots shouting random stuff as more and more beer is consumed!
All of the other traditional multi-frame tournaments will eventually be subject to tweaks, I think at some point a one-minute shot clock will come in - that might sound a lot but a lot of players go over it. I appreciate they have to get the long stuff out at times for tricky shots but as with pool you can have one or two extensions per player per frame.
I love the format of the World Championship and the final being four sessions over two days, first to 18 - but modern sport is moving away from that, look at Bazball; great to watch but it will kill five day cricket.
Would it be harsh to say that the new generation of sports fans don't have the attention span anymore? Back in the late 80s when my dad was taking me to the Assembly Rooms in Derby for the snooker there were no phones, tables, online console gaming or anything like that but I think these days it's very different. People seem to have so much they think they need to do that things like live sport can't take up as much of their time!
I think the main trouble is, as I've just recently posted, society as a whole has generally changed and now aims pretty much everything at the lowest common denominator as that's where the main, growing market is.I really cannot work it out as I think it is a shocking look for a TV audience.
When I have played or watched competition snooker in any hall there has always been respectful relative quietness and that is what the game always has been.
I am not keen on quite a few American sports like Baseball and NFL as I find them to have so much downtime and as far as I am aware they are still well followed so I am not sure if the sport following Americans are a more patient audience.I think the main trouble is, as I've just recently posted, society as a whole has generally changed and now aims pretty much everything at the lowest common denominator as that's where the main, growing market is.
So the types of fans who appreciate traditional forms of things like Cricket and Snooker are a limited and ageing demographic, and they seemingly have to do dumbed down versions to try to appeal to younger and wider demographics for the next generation of fans.
And, unfortunately, those shorter, dumbed down versions are probably going to end up being the main formats of the sports going forward as for a lot of things that's mainly appreciated by an ageing demographic it's going to be a matter of adjust or become an anachronism.
It's true that American Football and Baseball have quite a lot of downtime, though Baseball (if you compare it to Cricket) is still similar in length to a Twenty20 match, or at most a one day game. America has never, then and now, understood the idea of patient, 5 day Test cricket. Similarly, much preferring Pool to Snooker as it's quicker.I am not keen on quite a few American sports like Baseball and NFL as I find them to have so much downtime and as far as I am aware they are still well followed so I am not sure if the sport following Americans are a more patient audience.
A golf tournament goes for 4 days and I think that is made for TV.
Probably won't be long before they change the rules where a snooker isn't allowedIt's true that American Football and Baseball have quite a lot of downtime, though Baseball (if you compare it to Cricket) is still similar in length to a Twenty20 match, or at most a one day game. America has never, then and now, understood the idea of patient, 5 day Test cricket. Similarly, much preferring Pool to Snooker as it's quicker.
So it's not facing such a huge cultural shift as we are, and one hitting the longer, established versions of sport quite as much. Yet, even so, reading up on it I see that Baseball has been suffering in ratings in recent years due to the length of its games (and was apparently much less popular with those under 40 in polls), and it has made recent changes to appeal to a changing audience - including introducing a Pitch clock to speed up the game!
So, yeah, even they're facing those problems of appealing to a new demographic of fans with less patience / attention span. But it's an even bigger change over here.
That's pretty much been mooted.Probably won't be long before they change the rules where a snooker isn't allowed
There should be a calculation for me. One snooker with 3 balls remaining should be fair. Five snookers with 3 balls remaining daft.That's pretty much been mooted.
Or, at least, I've heard a few - most recently the likes of Stephen Hendry and Shaun Murphy - suggest that the frame should end once a player has a lead that's more than the points remaining (unless they're still on a break of course), rather than a player carry on playing for snookers and 'dragging' the frame on for longer.
The thinking being, of course, that it would speed the game up and most people prefer to see potting rather than the 'chess' battle that develops when a player is looking for snookers.
And in the Shoot out, they've removed the miss rule so any foul doesn't get put back you just get ball in hand to keep the potting / excitement going for the fans.
So while snookers won't be eradicated, there's certainly suggestions / early signs of them being tweaked to speed up the game.
Even though I'm generally a fan of the quicker, attacking players - Trump, Lisowksi, Brecel, etc - I've never really had a problem with players playing on for snookers as it's still an intriguing, if less dynamic, aspect of the game.They will look to make a change at some point with regard to playing for snookers.
The only issue with it is that it's quite subjective - for example if you need three snookers and there's only the colours left that's difficult but what if there are balls lined up in baulk perfect for snookering? That makes it more likely it could be achieved.
So players will say it's unfair to have the opportunity to do it when the balls are lying in a certain position, but not when they are in others.
Then what happens if a player has passed the three snookers needed stage but goes in-off?
I think it will cause a very big change to how players approach the game, and it's not going to be simple to introduce.
They will be better off starting with the shot clock because that will go some way to alleviating the above anyway, if players have less time to play a snooker it's more likely they won't get it, giving the opponent a chance to seal the frame.
It is frustrating to see a player carry on needing more than three snookers but some players, Selby in particular, genuinely feel they can pull it off.
That was only the first session in best of 19 Finals. Liam Davies has got it back to 7-7 so still in with a chance. But it's still looking bad for Boiko - 9-6 down now.Women's World Championship is down to the semi-final stage.
Our Reanne Evans faces Bai Yulu at around 4am tomorrow UK time with the other semi pitting Ng On Yee against Mink Nutcharut which is a huge clash.
@Bertie Wooster unlucky in the qualifiers with Davies and Boiko though they were both comfortably beaten in the end.