Would you stop. Israel backed Hamas because they're politically very useful to the Israeli regime.They started as a symptom. They've become part of the problem, as a terrorist organization placed right on our border.
We also left the Gaza strip around 2004 ago, and they responded with more and more rocket fire, landing further and further in Israel.
Over the last couple of years, the Israeli govenment has allowed more and more people from Gaza to come and work in Israel. They reponded with October 7.
I'm not saying Israel has done enough, I'm just saying that even when it did the right thing, the reponse was more and more terror. Not because of the people of Gaza - but because they are ruled by Hamas. Now, I wish we could take the two apart - Hamas and the civilians, many of whom are innocent - but they are intertwined.
They resist, and we respond - which is also human nature. 2022 and 2023 were also pretty bloody years in Israel prior to October 7, due to a large increase in terror attacks. Someone needs to break the cycle, but unfortunately the Hamas attack only increased it's velosity - which was always the only thing it was going to do.
Just coming at this from a technical angle, we know that Israel has incredibly accurate munitions, that can hit targets to within a couple of metres. We also know they have incredibly accurate surveillance/targeting equipment, that can accurately tell them exactly what person is where, at a given time.Unfortunately, this is where @The Corinthian dragged me to by comparing the direct attacks on Israeli towns which targetted civilians only because there was no one else around to the attacks by the IDF - which have been absolutely too aggressive and harmed way too many civilians, but did not target them directly.
He's come back in here with a renewed zest for Israel, that's for sure.There's a first for everything but @Dumbstar was right.
I promised I won't comment earlier. Don't want @That_Bloke getting upset again, he's a very intelligent guy and I enjoy reading his stuff. A bit naive but I'm sure he won't be bit twice.There's a first for everything but @Dumbstar was right.
Do you genuinely believe anything this guy has said?Do you genuinely believe this?
Socking video. The West must do more, we can't just leave Israel alone.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/14/us/politics/schumer-netanyahu-israel-elections.htmlThe top Senate Democrat, the highest-ranking Jewish elected official in the United States, spoke from the Senate floor to condemn Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and call for elections to replace him.
You forgetting something? between the rockets falling and Israel "leaving" Gaza, a tiny detail.Dragged Israeli settlers out of the Gaza strip about 20 years ago, and took the IDF out of the strip as well at the same time.
In response, over the next few years, rocket fire toward Israel increased.
I'm not clearing Israel here, just pointing out that while its responsible for a lot of the blame - there's another side here that hasn't exactly been helpful, to say the least.
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What Hamas did on Oct 7th, what Hezbollah is doing, what ISIS has been doing, what the Houthis are doing, what the Taliban are doing, what the numerous terrorist groups in Africa are doing ... ... ... well, sorry, but I can't see anything funny about all that.
Mostly, yes. I'm sure there are soldiers who have been extremely trigger happy and don't care who they shoot. But I don't think the IDF as an organization planned to directly targett civilians.Do you genuinely believe this?
Israeli settlers then continued to colonize the west bank, even when claiming not too.Dragged Israeli settlers out of the Gaza strip about 20 years ago, and took the IDF out of the strip as well at the same time.
In response, over the next few years, rocket fire toward Israel increased.
I'm not clearing Israel here, just pointing out that while its responsible for a lot of the blame - there's another side here that hasn't exactly been helpful, to say the least.
No, it did not start on October 7. And there are people who will say it did not start in 1948 either, but previously.That is not childish. is plainly wrong. Israel started in 1948 and continuously relentlessly killed civilians including kids every single year. We could go about illegal settling and keeping Gaza in controlled miserable conditions. It did not start in October 7
Yes, they did. They did not continue to colonize the Gaza strip, though. And Gaza then became a huge hub of terror and weapons.Israeli settlers then continued to colonize the west bank, even when claiming not too.
The IDF has clearly attacked at times knowing civilians could and will be harmed, as Gaza is very densed and crowded, with Hamas terrorist assimilated within the general population, public infrastructure, etc.Just coming at this from a technical angle, we know that Israel has incredibly accurate munitions, that can hit targets to within a couple of metres. We also know they have incredibly accurate surveillance/targeting equipment, that can accurately tell them exactly what person is where, at a given time.
If those 2 statements can be considered true, can you really say that the IDF haven't knowingly been killing civilians directly?
I'm not. My point is that while Israel has normally not done enough, whenever it did try to do something positive and correct - the reponse was more terror.You forgetting something? between the rockets falling and Israel "leaving" Gaza, a tiny detail.
The IDF had a very broad ROE at the beginning of the invasion, which they've been under pressure to tighten up.Mostly, yes. I'm sure there are soldiers who have been extremely trigger happy and don't care who they shoot. But I don't think the IDF as an organization planned to directly targett civilians.
Like I previous said, I can't win here.He's come back in here with a renewed zest for Israel, that's for sure.
I wonder why.Yes, they did. They did not continue to colonize the Gaza strip, though. And Gaza then became a huge hub of terror and weapons.
Yeah, I agree with all that. It's 100% correct.Throughout this period, I'm sure there have been many instances where individuals opened fire on Palestinians when they didn't need to, and weren't subsequently disciplined because they're at war. Its doubtful they will be punished after the fighting stops either.
Because countries are led by idiots who don't learn from history. And in Israel's case, are led by idiots who are only interested in themselvews and their own sectors in society.I wonder why.
See Libya, Iraq and ISIS.
I get that Hamas are bad and have done atrocities too, just I get the context and understand why they were able to take power.Like I previous said, I can't win here.
I'm against 90% of what Israel did and has been doing, but if I try and explain my position about the other 10%, I'm portrayed as some sort of a blind Israel supporter.
Bring back imperialismWhat Hamas did on Oct 7th, what Hezbollah is doing, what ISIS has been doing, what the Houthis are doing, what the Taliban are doing, what the numerous terrorist groups in Africa are doing ... ... ... well, sorry, but I can't see anything funny about all that.
There is an obvious pattern here, and the West should not bury their heads in the sand.
Yeah, I agree. And now what do we do about that?I get that Hamas are bad and have done atrocities too, just I get the context and understand why they were able to take power.
Because of the continued historical injustice.
Not to mention Netanyahu making a speech in congress over Obama's head.Kind of hilarious seeing Israelis asking American politicians to stay out of their business when they have been meddling with American politics for decades through AIPAC.
After all we've seen, I'm sorry but that's just willful ignorance. They have been directly targeting civilians since the beginning. Just read about all the ngo workers leaving gaza and the stories they tell. It's a fact at this point.Mostly, yes. I'm sure there are soldiers who have been extremely trigger happy and don't care who they shoot. But I don't think the IDF as an organization planned to directly targett civilians.
The politicians openly talk about it, the soldiers tik-tok and make a joke of it. The IDF is an army of terrorists led by terrorists.Mostly, yes. I'm sure there are soldiers who have been extremely trigger happy and don't care who they shoot. But I don't think the IDF as an organization planned to directly targett civilians.
Maybe. We can all agree terrible things are being done, whether it comes as a direct order from the top or not.After all we've seen, I'm sorry but that's just willful ignorance. They have been directly targeting civilians since the beginning. Just read about all the ngo workers leaving gaza and the stories they tell. It's a fact at this point.
Why don't you stop being beating around the bush and just say what you want to say?What Hamas did on Oct 7th, what Hezbollah is doing, what ISIS has been doing, what the Houthis are doing, what the Taliban are doing, what the numerous terrorist groups in Africa are doing ... ... ... well, sorry, but I can't see anything funny about all that.
There is an obvious pattern here, and the West should not bury their heads in the sand.
It would probably get him banned.Why don't you stop being beating around the bush and just say what you want to say?
Did Israel expected that Palestinians would be satisfied with being handed 3% of the area of the occupied territories and quietly watch Israel colonize the rest?Yes, they did. They did not continue to colonize the Gaza strip, though. And Gaza then became a huge hub of terror and weapons.
Good godHere’s an excerpt I’ve edited together from Robert Fisk’s classic Pity the Nation where Fisk, having experienced the Israeli bombing of West Beirut, seeks out an Israeli Air Force commander for his thoughts on the process and consequences of the bombing campaign - https://jumpshare.com/s/ioejRyp2LsWiyOLxwImA
Amalek, mateMaybe. We can all agree terrible things are being done, whether it comes as a direct order from the top or not.
I don't know if this is you just burying your head in the sand with your fingers in your ears, plain simple delusion or you're on the payroll but it's devoid of the truth and the reality on the ground. You're clearly not discussing this in good faith anymore.Mostly, yes. I'm sure there are soldiers who have been extremely trigger happy and don't care who they shoot. But I don't think the IDF as an organization planned to directly targett civilians.