The Dalot experiment is particularly infuriating. Hes so obviously bad in that role.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Unhappy with all of it to be honest. Scary that Ole might be the best manager for us since SAF
Was pleased to see the level of control increase dramatically in his opening games, but there's not been any improvement on that, we've actually been playing poorly since.
It's fine having a preferred system but you have to be able to adapt to be a good football manager in my opinion, and he's not doing that at the moment. His preferred system clearly isn't working due to the quality of players at his disposal, lack of training time, or both.
He's had enough time to see the system in action with most of the players fielded and it's not working. You can't then just keep playing it and losing or drawing in the same manner every game, that's the same madness we were raging with Ten Hag for.
I'm not for one second saying Ruud was the answer, and the teams we played during his short stint weren't the most difficult, but he did seem to pick sensible options that suited the players and the games and we got some decent results even if the football wasn't greatly improved. There's something to be said for that.
You only have to look at what's happened to City to see the outcome if you don't change a system that isn't working, and that's with a great squad and supposedly the best manager. Refusal to adapt your approach is not a great trait for a football manager.
It's fine having a preferred system but you have to be able to adapt to be a good football manager in my opinion, and he's not doing that at the moment. His preferred system clearly isn't working due to the quality of players at his disposal, lack of training time, or both.
He's had enough time to see the system in action with most of the players fielded and it's not working. You can't then just keep playing it and losing or drawing in the same manner every game, that's the same madness we were raging with Ten Hag for.
I'm not for one second saying Ruud was the answer, and the teams we played during his short stint weren't the most difficult, but he did seem to pick sensible options that suited the players and the games and we got some decent results even if the football wasn't greatly improved. There's something to be said for that.
You only have to look at what's happened to City to see the outcome if you don't change a system that isn't working, and that's with a great squad and supposedly the best manager. Refusal to adapt your approach is not a great trait for a football manager.
Of course but we have to get away from the idea of managers signing players or bringing in 'their' players.
But not the one guy who was singled out and booed off.
I agree with this. But i just wonder what sign it sends when he reverses course? Even if it is just until the end of the season.
Maybe the message cant be worse than losing every game.
I don't think we've got the determination needed to get relegated. Everton have actively been trying for about five years now and just can't manage it.I'm genuinely worried. I see no hope, I think we're in serious danger to get relegated
I'm genuinely worried. I see no hope, I think we're in serious danger to get relegated
No. We're bad but we're not that bad. Probably need another 15 points in the second half of the season to ensure safety. Surely we can manage that?
If we lose to Southampton in a couple of weeks though... then it's time to panic.
The shortsighted part was keeping him this summer.
The thing with Ruben's "system" is that it isn't some magic way to win — it's just a football formation like any other. I don't know why we're so obsessed with one system at the expense of all others if it doesn't suit the squad.
And if we're planning on selling most of our current players anyway, who the hell cares if they learn a new system this season? They won't be here to play it in future anyway.
And if we're planning on selling most of our current players anyway, who the hell cares if they learn a new system this season? They won't be here to play it in future anyway.
Sadly you're 100% correct. Was more wishful thinking on my part.
It was far worse under ten Hag. Now we are largely playing OK but getting done on set pieces and or through moments of individual stupidity.
Under EtH we had teams like Luton, Brentford and Palace having 20+ shots on goal against us and running through at will.
Team selection massively wrong tonight and he needs to learn fast but anything else is unwarranted hysteria
Can he start being more flexible with his system? I know it’s not a solution in the long term but the performances have been miserable and it doesn’t look like things are improving. Don’t fold but adjust.
I don't want a ban so I'll keep it short, we have to beat Southampton convincingly on the 16th or Amorim is done. We are in a relegation scrap.
Started by moving Amad into the 10 position.At rwb he was carrying us,he needs to move back there.
The good managers adapt their philosophy when needed to get results. I’m not saying he abandon the 3-4-3 but clearly it isn’t working in its current form and got exposed today.
I'm not saying it's an easy job, but its never going to be. The squad has obvious flaws, but we appear to be playing exactly as bad as we were under ETH and he was deemed not good enough. I know he had longer with the players and they were mostly signed by him, so he should take more of the blame for the situation, but it will still be concerning if we get to the end of the season and there is no improvement whatsoever. I agree it's a poor squad, but I find it hard to believe no one could find a system with it which wouldn't look better than this.
What’s your point?
RedCafe - we must rip-up EtHs work and start again, it'll be painful but it needs to be done and we'll support Amorim through it
RedCafe when we lose a few games - his system doesn't work and he needs to go
RedCafe when we lose a few games - his system doesn't work and he needs to go
It would signal that we are in panic mode and that anything that can be used, will be used to end the season with some form of dignity
It's understandable that he needs his players to play his style of play well. But this when we want to go a few level up to, say, challenge Top 4/5 or PL tiltles. As of now, any good manager should improve this team and at least implement a clear style of play. He needs results to get him more time. No ifs or buts, he has failed badly so far and questions need to be asked.
Why play Dalot, who is predominatly a right sided player, on the left? Why play an ageing Eriksen and utterly over the hill Casemiro together in midfield, when neither of them have had any minutes in weeks? Why not start Mainoo and Yoro? Why constantly change the defence, with a different lineup each game and then mutliple changes per game? Why include Rashford in the squad but then leave him on bench when we desperately need a goal yet Hojlund, who is utter garbage, gets to play the whole game?
Why Ruben? WHY?
Why Ruben? WHY?
I agree they are two completely different realities, but it doesn't automatically mean that Ruben should have us in this mess either losing three home games on the trot. He still needs to get results to earn the trust of both fans and the board going into next season. Otherwise what was the point in bringing him in mid season?
His style when performed properly is fast and exciting, the problem is we have no technicality what so ever it’s a team built on a counter attacking transition
This mix of mediocre players, some out of position is going to struggle
We need to do everything we can to get him a couple of players in January it could make a huge difference
It wont happen anymore with a proper structure in place. Not sure what happened this summer but maybe they went all in on supporting ten Hag after him signing an extension to make it work. They have learned their lesson. But they know 3-4-2-1 is the way forward so they have find wingbacks and midfielders to suit the role. So the manager will be involved in discussions but they wont say yes to everyone he wants to sign.
So many games, lack of time on the training ground, injuries, loss of form.
Of course he is good.
The issue is that he has been dealt 7,2 off suite and he is not willing to fold.
You can look up and down our squad and there are very few players you want to build a team around. Maybe Mainoo is the only one. Our highest paid players, Case, Bruno, Rashford, Antony and Maguire are some of or biggest issues.
I cannot believe that we've hired two managers in a row who has a fanciful Plan A for the long term that requires half a billion of investment (with no guarantee it will work) but absolutely zero Plan B to work with the squad we currently have for the short-term.
Yes, it's not a great squad and are nowhere close in quality to the top 4. But 5 defeats out of 6? Come on man.
Yes, it's not a great squad and are nowhere close in quality to the top 4. But 5 defeats out of 6? Come on man.
Anfield is going to be a massacre. I completely understand that Amorim came into a shit storm, the fixture list is very unforving and the schedule a nightmare but surely, even for him, he had to know that Casemiro and Eriksen wouldn't stand a chance against Newcastle, he had to know that Dalot and Maz as wingbacks is bunting our attack and that Hoijlund and Zirkzee are just horrible. How does he justify fielding them?
I like him, will give him the benefit of the doubt but, I have said this early on in this thread, not playing the youth will sink him. By the time the summer window arrives, and that's only where he will get significant reinforcements, he would have lost credibility if not his job. So get creative, be brave and start playing the youth who have something to prove.
I like him, will give him the benefit of the doubt but, I have said this early on in this thread, not playing the youth will sink him. By the time the summer window arrives, and that's only where he will get significant reinforcements, he would have lost credibility if not his job. So get creative, be brave and start playing the youth who have something to prove.
I am talking about ETH in this 24/25 season.
Don't get me wrong, he was deservedly sacked. I just don't like the idea of our manager being stubborn to stick with something that ain't working. We tore ETH for being extremely stubborn, I don't want Amorim to go down that route
Playing devils advocate here... if we keep losing 2 or 3 nil every single week there has to come a point where the manager is called into question.
Put it this way, if come the end of the season we're 15th or lower then I think it might be worth reviewing other options.
The squad doesnt relegate you results do. Doesn't matter how good we think certain players are if the team keeps losing 6 games a month we are going down.
We are going 1 way at the moment and there is absolutely zero sign right now that there is anything going to halt that.
The comfort blanket that ‘the squad is too good to go down’ or the blind assumption that ‘this will all improve at some point’ is very shaky foundations to build a case against relegation on.
There's losing a few games and then there's losing 6 games out of 11, including 4 in a row.
Are you okay with relegation?
As far as the League is concerned I think January is key:
Liverpool
Southampton
Brighton
Fulham
Lose all of them and there's no saving him.
Will also probably be out of the FA Cup.
Carragher slaughtering Amorim on MNF at the moment.
Liverpool
Southampton
Brighton
Fulham
Lose all of them and there's no saving him.
Will also probably be out of the FA Cup.
Carragher slaughtering Amorim on MNF at the moment.
And yet Amorim is trying it week after week. Let's see what happens in January.
I agree that he shouldn't have been brought in mid-season, but I'm assuming Berrada got wind City may have been sniffing around as a potential Pep replacement and decided to move quickly.
Ten Hag should've obviously been sacked at seasons end and given the new manager an entire summer to build his squad with new players and not buy dross like Zirkzee.
That somehow we've seen enough of Zirkzee to decide that he's not worthy of playing for Utd, based on performances in a squad widely acknowledged to be shit, under a terrible manager in ETH and now, a new manager to the league. At the same time, even mentioning the possibility that Amorim may not be astute enough in a league as challenging as the PL, is basically blasphemous.
We don’t generally agree on a lot @VP89 but I appreciate your measured approach here. Dang, sometimes I hate the hold this club has on me.
Hope for Amorim. But we need to move past the “savior” idea. I genuinely believe that Rangnick couldn’t fix us and ETH was out of his depth and tactically inept. I don’t have many arguments left, sadly.
Sigh. We sucked today v Newcastle.
The point is to see who can actually contribute going forward into next season and who isn’t good enough.
I’m not sure what the answer is currently. In a vacuum, sure we sell 10 players from this squad and make massive upgrades in the squad for next year. But just losing every game isn’t the best way right now either. However, I also don’t want to just go for Ole counter ball again either.
I said it when we hired him and it’s proving true, but the biggest issue right now is we essentially have 0 quality in attack apart from Amad (which teams have now figured out and are doubling up on him). When you can’t score/create/present danger consistently, it becomes incredibly tough to get results even if as a coach you are doing everything right. It’s even harder when the squad is learning a new system